Black Clover : Demon King 5C Upgrade

[AstaDragon]

Sacred Power Lucius gains physical strength from absorbing Lucifero.

So I think Lucifero should will up tier to 5C : 356.4 Exatons with his physical just like Sacred Power Lucius.

Agree :

Disagree :

Neutral :

 

[EmperorofNeat3.1+9.21]

Following

 

[CloverDragon03]

No. His base form is comparable to Lucifero for absorbing his power, then his Sacred Power amplifies his power even further. What you're proposing would cause a never-ending cycle of circular scaling

 

[AstaDragon]

No. His base form is comparable to Lucifero for absorbing his power, then his Sacred Power amplifies his power even further

I know, but he said he got his physical powers from Lucifero in both where he is in his base form and where he is in Sacred Power, right?

 

[CloverDragon03]

You can't have Lucifero scale to two different values. Base Lucius scales from Lucifero. Lucifero doesn't scale from Sacred Power Lucius

 

[AstaDragon]

Base Lucius scales from Lucifero. Lucifero doesn't scale from Sacred Power Lucius

I don't understand it in this image. Lucius In the body, Sacred Power is talking about the physical power that comes from Lucifero. Why can't it be scaled up?

 

[CloverDragon03]

He just says he was made physically tough by Lucifero... Which we already knew from Asta's fight with him. We're not scaling Lucifero up, because then that creates a circular mess of scaling where everyone just keeps being scaled up and up into infinity

 

[Kubo423]

iirc, base Lucius's equivalent to 100% Lucifero physically, or did I miss something? But this is interesting. Following.

 

[AstaDragon]

because then that creates a circular mess of scaling where everyone just keeps being scaled up and up into infinity

It have to create a new Thread multiplier, right?

 

[CloverDragon03]

iirc, base Lucius's equivalent to 100% Lucifero physically, or did I miss something? But this is interesting. Following.

Yes, that is correct

 

[CloverDragon03]

It have to create a new Thread multiplier, right?

Let me put it like this:

1. The 356.4 exaton value comes from multiplying Lucius's base (and thus, multiplying Full Power Lucifero's power) by 100. If we scale Full Power Lucifero to Sacred Power Lucius, that just straight-up goes away
2. It's not consistent considering a much stronger DU Asta than the one that completely destroyed Half Power Lucifero got one-shot by Sacred Power Lucius. You're telling me he couldn't close a 2x gap in 15 months?
3. Even if you wanted to disregard all that, which is a lot to disregard, consider the following scenario:
   1. We pass this thread and Full Power Lucifero becomes 356.4 exatons
   2. Half Power Lucifero is half of this, becoming 178.2 exatons
   3. Spade Arc TDU Asta scales to this, becoming 178.2 exatons. The DU Asta that fought Lucius is stronger than this, also scaling to 178.2 exatons
   4. Base Lucius scales to 178.2 exatons for fighting evenly with Asta
   5. Sacred Power multiplies Lucius's power by 100, making him 17.82 zettatons
   6. But Full Power Lucifero scales to Sacred Power Lucius, so he becomes 17.82 zettatons, making Half Power Lucifero, DU Asta, and Base Lucius 8.91 zettatons. This would end up making Sacred Power Lucius 891 zettatons, and the cycle will just continue to repeat itself

 

[AstaDragon]

Let me put it like this:

1. The 356.4 exaton value comes from multiplying Lucius's base (and thus, multiplying Full Power Lucifero's power) by 100. If we scale Full Power Lucifero to Sacred Power Lucius, that just straight-up goes away
2. It's not consistent considering a much stronger DU Asta than the one that completely destroyed Half Power Lucifero got one-shot by Sacred Power Lucius. You're telling me he couldn't close a 2x gap in 15 months?
3. Even if you wanted to disregard all that, which is a lot to disregard, consider the following scenario:
   1. We pass this thread and Full Power Lucifero becomes 356.4 exatons
   2. Half Power Lucifero is half of this, becoming 178.2 exatons
   3. Spade Arc TDU Asta scales to this, becoming 178.2 exatons. The DU Asta that fought Lucius is stronger than this, also scaling to 178.2 exatons
   4. Base Lucius scales to 178.2 exatons for fighting evenly with Asta
   5. Sacred Power multiplies Lucius's power by 100, making him 17.82 zettatons
   6. But Full Power Lucifero scales to Sacred Power Lucius, so he becomes 17.82 zettatons, making Half Power Lucifero, DU Asta, and Base Lucius 8.91 zettatons. This would end up making Sacred Power Lucius 891 zettatons, and the cycle will just continue to repeat itself

No, what I'm wondering now is whether my thread is right or wrong. If right you're said that you have to create a new multiplier thread, which is why you don't want to do that? Now I'm completely confused.

 

[Planck69]

Clover makes sense to me, this does sound like circular scaling.

 

[AstaDragon]

Spade Arc TDU Asta scales to this, becoming 178.2 exatons. The DU Asta that fought Lucius is stronger than this, also scaling to 178.2 exatons

As you example, why is spade arc asta only 178.2 exatons when he took Lucifero's attack and slashed Lucifero? Why isn't he 356.4 exatons?

Base Lucius scales to 178.2 exatons for fighting evenly with Asta

I'm not sure if Based on Base Lucius being able to scale Astra because he hasn't hit Asta once, at the same time Asta hasn't been able to hit Lucius once.

 

[CloverDragon03]

As you example, why is spade arc asta only 178.2 exatons when he took Lucifero's attack and slashed Lucifero? Why isn't he 356.4 exatons?

356.4 exatons is for Full Power Lucifero. The Lucifero that Asta fought was only at half power

I'm not sure if Based on Base Lucius being able to scale Astra because he hasn't hit Asta once, at the same time Asta hasn't been able to hit Lucius once.

Asta did slash Lucius and he was relatively unharmed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Clover sounds right.

 

[AstaDragon]

356.4 exatons is for Full Power Lucifero. The Lucifero that Asta fought was only at half power

But Full power Lucifero uses only half his power. We still don't know 100% of his power.

Asta did slash Lucius and he was relatively unharmed

Ok, I just read the manga and saw it. Asta uses his sword to cut Lucius, causing Lucius to bleed. But how do we know Lucius's AP when he doesn't hit Asta once?

 

[CloverDragon03]

But Full power Lucifero uses only half his power. We still don't know 100% of his power.

When I say Full Power Lucifero I mean with 100% of his power, not the full power form he entered when Half-Manifested. Sorry for the confusion

Ok, I just read the manga and saw it. Asta uses his sword to cut Lucius, causing Lucius to bleed. But how do we know Lucius's AP when he doesn't hit Asta once?

Universal Energy System for BC, which indicates that Durability = AP. Plus, he has the statement of absorbing Lucifero's power, which applies to his base form

 

[AstaDragon]

Universal Energy System for BC, which indicates that Durability = AP. Plus, he has the statement of absorbing Lucifero's power, which applies to his base form

This means that AP Asta who slashes Lucius until he bleeds = Durability of Lucius, right? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Not just that, but also that Lucius's AP is equal to his durability

 

[Epsilon_R]

Aside from the obvious issues...



Ain't this like, your third BC crt in a week? And BC already has at least 2 crts still active, this should be closed for that reason alone

 

[AstaDragon]

Not just that, but also that Lucius's AP is equal to his durability

Ok this shows that Ap,Durability Asta = Ap.Durability Lucius and now I'm convinced that if my thread goes through it it will cause infinite multiplication. Thank you for giving an example, I agree with you. So I will tell the staff to close my thread after 48 hours have passed since the thread was created.

 

[AstaDragon]

Ain't this like, your third BC crt in a week? And BC already has at least 2 crts still active, this should be closed for that reason alone

2 Thread No one is interested. What do you want me to do?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Ok this shows that Ap,Durability Asta = Ap.Durability Lucius and now I'm convinced that if my thread goes through it it will cause infinite multiplication. Thank you for giving an example, I agree with you. So I will tell the staff to close my thread after 48 hours have passed since the thread was created.

The 48 hour thing only applies for getting a thread accepted, not for if it gets rejected. If you don't wish to pursue this any further, you can ask a staff member to close the thread now

 

[Planck69]

I'll close this now.