BLACK CLOVER CRT: HOW MUCH DO THEY BENCH?

[CloverDragon03]

Class P (Effortlessly caught Devil Union Asta's sword swing), Class T to Class P with Gravity Magic (Lucifero's most casual Gravity Magic is considered "beyond amazing" by Adrammelech, a supreme devil superior to Lilith and Naamah, and should thus be superior to their fusion's Freezing Sun. Can increase the potency of his Gravity Magic to crush the arms of characters that can repel his physical attacks, such as Yami)

How's this?

And also...

I'm still voting on 1, as it's a spell he consciously activates and using Devil Union Asta moving under his gravity is not a good example because Devil Union passively nullifies the magic around him (see Kid's Playground for example)

Has nobody addressed this?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Class P (Effortlessly caught Devil Union Asta's sword swing), Class T to Class P with Gravity Magic (Lucifero's most casual Gravity Magic is considered "beyond amazing" by Adrammelech, a supreme devil superior to Lilith and Naamah, and should thus be superior to their fusion's Freezing Sun. Can increase the potency of his Gravity Magic to crush the arms of characters that can repel his physical attacks, such as Yami)

Looks good

Has nobody addressed this?

Nobody car- I mean why am we addressing that again. The most logical example was ToV which is a magic boost and invincibility. Lucifero couldn’t pin them FRA but he could send them flying, remove restraints, throw them around like they’re nothing. That means his gravity scaled below his physical strength until he decides to amp it.

Which is the reason why most of us chose option 3. Now allow me to copy paste into the profile

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm in agreement with Clover, 1 makes more sense compared to 2 and 3.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Nobody car- I mean why am we addressing that again. The most logical example was ToV which is a magic boost and invincibility. Lucifero couldn’t pin them FRA but he could send them flying, remove restraints, throw them around like they’re nothing. That means his gravity scaled below his physical strength until he decides to amp it.

Which is the reason why most of us chose option 3. Now allow me to copy paste into the profile

Twilight of Valhalla makes them immune to all damage, which is why they can fight in Lucifero's gravity. Even when they get thrown around, they're not actually taking any damage until Rill's spell is destroyed, so this isn't a good example either.

Y'all are hyperfocusing on the magic boost too much, the leap in logic of "the magic boost is why they can fight in the gravity" is not one you can actually reasonably make. You'd have to make more assumptions to arrive at option 3 than option 1

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Twilight of Valhalla makes them immune to all damage, which is why they can fight in Lucifero's gravity. Even when they get thrown around, they're not actually taking any damage until Rill's spell is destroyed, so this isn't a good example either.

Y'all are hyperfocusing on the magic boost too much, the leap in logic of "the magic boost is why they can fight in the gravity" is not one you can actually reasonably make. You'd have to make more assumptions to arrive at option 3 than option 1

Again my point is not about the fact that they are immune to all damage. That shouldn’t stop them from getting pinned to the ground. They will not be hurt but they will be unable to fight.

We are not “hyper focusing” on the magic boost aspect of ToV for no reason.

It’s not even a leap of logic on your part that you assume that they can fight due their invulnerability; it’s outright illogical because invulnerability doesn’t stop you from getting pinned it only stops you from receiving damage. The only logical reason is the fact that they were granted enough power to circumvent the gravity output.

It is now up to us to determine what LS ToV receives. It is obvious, that Lucifero’s physicals scale far above his gravitational presence as we see the captains are no match for him at all LS-wise.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Not to mention that you and I know that an increase in magic power allows for the mage to increase their LS.

So how is it a leap of logic to assume that’s the same case here?

The captains simply got enough power to circumvent the presence of a Casual Lucifero. If Lucifero wanted to overcome it he would by simply amping his gravity.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So yeah It makes no sense for that version of his gravity to be Class P but if you insist, ToV must also recieve the class P rating.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Again my point is not about the fact that they are immune to all damage. That shouldn’t stop them from getting pinned to the ground. They will not be hurt but they will be unable to fight.

We are not “hyper focusing” on the magic boost aspect of ToV for no reason.

It’s not even a leap of logic on your part that you assume that they can fight due their invulnerability; it’s outright illogical because invulnerability doesn’t stop you from getting pinned it only stops you from receiving damage. The only logical reason is the fact that they were granted enough power to circumvent the gravity output.

It is now up to us to determine what LS ToV receives. It is obvious, that Lucifero’s physicals scale far above his gravitational presence as we see the captains are no match for him at all LS-wise.

Twilight of Valhalla grants a boost in magic, but given the very unimpressive lifting strength of most of the captains, I'd say it's pretty unsupported that it buffs them so much as to make them even Class T. The reason I say this is because we've seen Twilight of Valhalla's magic amp before, against Megicula, and while the buff was a notable one, it was not this massive. It was buffing characters that could already take on 100% Vanica to be able to take on 1/3 Megicula, which again is a notable buff but not a massive one like what's being suggested here.

It's never said what specifically is the reason why Rill's spell allows the captains to fight in Lucifero's gravity. However, based on what we've seen from Twilight of Valhalla, I'd much sooner say it's the invulnerability against opposing attacks than the magic boost. Presence of the Demon King is still a spell, meaning invulnerability against its effects would mean being able to stand in its gravitational force.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Twilight of Valhalla grants a boost in magic, but given the very unimpressive lifting strength of most of the captains, I'd say it's pretty unsupported that it buffs them so much as to make them even Class T. The reason I say this is because we've seen Twilight of Valhalla's magic amp before, against Megicula, and while the buff was a notable one, it was not this massive. It was buffing characters that could already take on 100% Vanica to be able to take on 1/3 Megicula, which again is a notable buff but not a massive one like what's being suggested here.

It's never said what specifically is the reason why Rill's spell allows the captains to fight in Lucifero's gravity. However, based on what we've seen from Twilight of Valhalla, I'd much sooner say it's the invulnerability against opposing attacks than the magic boost. Presence of the Demon King is still a spell, meaning invulnerability against its effects would mean being able to stand in its gravitational force.

Bro you need to understand the details of that fight. We know ToV has to connect to the characters for them to receive benefits. During the fight against Megicula, the following characters are the only characters that ToV was beneficial to was:

• Charlotte, (who was one shot by Megicula, was utterly useless against her curses.)
• Rill (who got one shot by Megicula along with his entire army before ToV’s main purpose finally kicked in)
• Gaja (who used up all of his magic in addition to his LIFE FORCE.)

ToV never amped any other character (Nozel, Noelle, Asta, Luck) because, as you said, they were already strong enough to take on Megicula and her army (especially with Charlotte’s help). The amp was only beneficial to characters who were practically half dead or far weaker than Megicula.

• Charolette became powerful enough to override Megicula's magic
• Rill became relative to Megicula's red army which is powered by Acier soul and her magic power.

- Gaja legit got all his magic power back and became strong enough to one-shot Megicula and her Army with Luck.

How are these not impressive amps against a supreme devil and the ruler of the underworld that stays at the final gate who is at the very least equal to Naalith with 1/3rd of her power? OF COURSE It makes absolute sense why Twilight of Valhalla amps healthy and hearthy captains to Class T.

---

We don't need to be spoon-fed to know that the only reason the captains could fight was due to the ToV's magical support and besides what you are proposing makes absolutely ZERO sense. Invulnerability is a hax and does not grant you the physical strength to lift yourself up. You are using none-sense to counter what you describe "leap of logic" (which is not actually a leap of logic. It is the correct interpretation).

Twilight of Valhalla is a very impressive magic-boosting amp that will allow the captains to fight within Lucifero's gravity. So it makes sense why they should receive AT LEAST a class T rating.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bro you need to understand the details of that fight. We know ToV has to connect to the characters for them to receive benefits. During the fight against Megicula, the following characters are the only characters that ToV was beneficial to was:

• Charlotte, (who was one shot by Megicula, was utterly useless against her curses.)
• Rill (who got one shot by Megicula along with his entire army before ToV’s main purpose finally kicked in)
• Gaja (who used up all of his magic in addition to his LIFE FORCE.)

ToV never amped any other character (Nozel, Noelle, Asta, Luck) because, as you said, they were already strong enough to take on Megicula and her army (especially with Charlotte’s help). The amp was only beneficial to characters who were practically half dead or far weaker than Megicula.

• Charolette became powerful enough to override Megicula's magic
• Rill became relative to Megicula's red army which is powered by Acier soul and her magic power.

- Gaja legit got all his magic power back and became strong enough to one-shot Megicula and her Army with Luck.

I can concede on this, did not fully remember the details of the battle and missed the fact that Charlotte and Rill were one-shot

We don't need to be spoon-fed to know that the only reason the captains could fight was due to the ToV's magical support and besides what you are proposing makes absolutely ZERO sense.

It just says the support of the spell. Deliberately altering what is meant by this when linking the page is not a good look. This could be either the magic boost or the invulnerability.

Invulnerability is a hax and does not grant you the physical strength to lift yourself up. You are using none-sense to counter what you describe "leap of logic" (which is not actually a leap of logic. It is the correct interpretation).

Invulnerability is the power to be unaffected by incoming attacks. Presence of the Demon King is a spell that uses a strong gravitational force to force opponents to the ground. That is its effect. Invulnerability to this spell means you are immune to its effect. If you were forced to the ground by it, you would not be invulnerable to it because its effect is still working on you.

So please do not come in with that "this is the correct interpretation" nonsense when you have far from proven that

Twilight of Valhalla is a very impressive magic-boosting amp that will allow the captains to fight within Lucifero's gravity. So it makes sense why they should receive AT LEAST a class T rating.

You still would need to prove that having more magic inherently means having more lifting strength, despite that being contradicted with the existence of Reinforcement Magic to help those that lack much in the way of muscle and the fact that examples such as Yami's physicals being superior to, say, Julius' during early Black Clover despite Julius having more magic. Julius couldn't even lift Asta's swords, which he wields with ease.

At best, more magic would mean a greater amp via Reinforcement Magic