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Bill Cipher vs Homura Akemi

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Bill possibly has this because he is High 2-A, aka he is on the highest point of Multiverse level+. Homura is only 2-A.

Are both bloodlusted, by the way? Because if they are not, then Bill is going to drag on the fight, only to get bored and end it right away.
 
Elaborate. Nothing on his profile suggest that it's better
 
Hm...Bill, resistance to reality warping and spacetime manip coupled with his Regenerationn will make it nearly impossible for Homura to kill him, and while Homura does have some good moves ((i.e her pressure point strike)) Bill has precog to avoid attacks like that, all in all, I vote Bill due to his regen and resistance and counters to most of Homura's attacks.
 
She isn't a concept, she has conceptual manipulaion ((to an unknown degree as it's not stated on the page)), not conceptual existance, two different things.
 
Uh, Bill has absolutely no counter for conceptual manipulation and power steal. Just pointing out obviously. Vote counted
 
Ok, conceptual manipulation, never gonna hear the end of this, what level of conceptual manipulation does she have? Can she destroy the concept of immortality and Regenerationn?
 
Bill:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics - not really mattering on this level

Immortality (Types 1, 3, and 4) - Meh. Nothing she can't get past

Regenerationn (At least Low-Godly, possibly-Mid Godly, he spoke an ancient incantation before his demise that can allow him to come back from being erased) - not combat applicable. Homura isn't one to just let an enemy recite the AXOLTL.

Teleportation - she's Omnipresent

Mind Control - Homura has some of her own and can resist witches kiss, can resist Madoka's memory erasure wave - she'll probably be ok.

Reality Warping - useful as hers.

Inter-universal travel - She's omnipresent. But counters her BFR

Time Manipulation - she has some of her own to counter. Plus she's omnipresent throughout space-time, which tends to mess up all time shenanigans except the most wide-scale. Plus destruction of her physical form won't do anything to her.

Dream Manipulation and Nightmare Inducement - meh. She's lived through all her nightmares about 100 times.

Clairvoyance, Precognition and Cross-universal awareness (is capable of viewing different realities) - she's omnipresent throughout the multiverse's time-space. Everything he can see, she can also see because she's there for it.

Illusion Creation - on this level, kinda meh

Intangibility - on this level, very meh

Energy Projection - on this level, very meh

Flight/Levitation - she's omnipresent

Matter Manipulation - pretty sure WoG says she's a deity and her true form is non-corporeal just like Madoka, so... meh. Plus, destruction of her physical form can't kill her.

Possession - She'd probably eat his soul if he tried. Plus, again, resistance to witch's kiss.

Fire Manipulation - at this level, meh

Size Manipulation - she's omnipresent. Can't get much bigger than that.

Telekinesis, Telepathy - kinda meh on this level, but counters her's I guess

Madness Inducement (Can create bubbles that can induce madness into whatever it touches) - she's already kinda insane. I doubt it would do much more than annoy her.

Fourth Wall Awareness (Is aware of the real world and can "see" us) - unless he's seen Madoka Magica, not helpful. Hell, even if he has seen Madoka Magica it still isn't helpful because nothing in that show even hints at a clue as to how you kill Homura now that her Soul Gem is destroyed.

Soul Removal (Did this when he possessed Dippers body) - she doesn't have a soul to remove. Maybe he could possess her body because its already soulless, but that body isn't really important to her anyway.

Resistance to reality warping and space-time manipulation - took out time baby, but Time Baby was only low 2-C, while Homura is 2-A.

possible Higher-Dimensional Manipulation - 2-A lowball so ignoring.


Homura (Don't know how much of her magical girl and witch stuff she keeps, so I'll go over it all) Superhuman Physical Characteristics - not really mattering here

Firearm and Missiles Mastery, - kinda meh on this level

Time Manipulation. Time Stop, Time Travel - helps her counter his

Technological Manipulation - kinda meh on this level

Immortality (Type 2 and 6 [Though the latter should not come up in combat.]) - so she can keep fighting even with injuries I guess.

Forcefield Creation - maybe? Helps against energy project I suppose.

Weapon Creation - kinda meh on this level. Maybe she can make some magic shields or something

Mind Manipulation and Magic Resistance - only resisted witches though iirc. And they aren't close to Bill's level. Maybe keeping her mind despite Madoka's universal reset is a feat?

Healing - so she can fix herself up if he damages her.

Telepathy, Telekinesis - kinda meh on this level, but counters his I guess

Transformation Power Drain - no clue what this means.

Magic Sensor - she's omnipresent, so kinda redundant.

Weapon Enhancement - kinda meh on this level

BFR (Through sending people to her shield's Pocket Universe) - Bill's interversal travel counters.

Time Paradox Resistance (Through contact with her shield) - acausal now, so redundant. Could help against his time powers though, if her other stuff doesn't already.

Energy Projection - kinda meh on this level

Memory Manipulation - he has no resistance. Plus, that's kinda what took him down in the end.

Transformation - meh

Familiar Summoning - witch's familiars are fodder to BIll

Reality Manipulation -useful as his.

Pocket Reality Manipulation - she probably has it technically, but she can also control normal reality so...

Soul Manipulation Immunity - counters his soul manip

Acausality (Only on 3-D scale) - stops him from affecting her with normal time manipulation. Not sure if he can control higher dimensional time, which is what he would need to affect her.

Concept Manipulation - he has no resistance, she can crush his concept.

Dimensional Manipulation - Spatial manip? He resists, although apparently only against Time Baby


All in all, giving it to Homura. She has more consistent counters and resistances to what he has, a few abilities of her own that he doesn't resist, and also has better feats compared to his lowball ("a threat to the multiverse" vs "taking down a multiversal being"). Plus her personality is better suited to fighting. Bill plays around. She doesn't
 
Doesn't change that she's every where throughout space-time, seeing as that's a part of her nature.

In a situation of omnipresent v immeasurable, it essentially just means "there is no speed blitz" and nothing more
 
Yeah, just specifying. Anyway, Power Drain is what she did when she separated human Madoka and goddess Madoka
 
Ah. Transformation and Power Drain. No comma on the page, so I thought it was one power.

That would definitely help too, seeing as it already has a feat of working agaisnt a 2-A

Definitely voting Homura here.
 
Monarch gave good reasons for Akuhomura. Also considering how she can Memoryhax and Power Drain the 2-A Madoka, too, I'm going with his reasons and voting Homura.
 
Also iirc the girl who did nothing wrong Akuma Homura has all the abilities on the profile.
 
Also @Monarch you sure about the non-corporeal thing? I remember Kyubey saying something along the lines of "a new concept was born in this world" but that's about it.

That said, i'm sincerely not sure how the hell one is supposed to kill Homura, GEOM opens the door given that she should be able to heal from pretty much anything that doesn't destroy the Soul Gem, but she destroyed that as well and she is still alive. So it's kinda confusing.

Obviously i'm not talking about stuff like existence erasure here.
 
Pretty sure I read on the PMMM wiki something along the lines of "PMMM world was atheistic with no god, then Madoka became god making it a monotheistic world, then Homura became another god making it a dualtheistic world", and that they are the same type of existence. Don't quote me on that though.

There's also the "how is she omnipresent if she is still a physical being" part.
 
@Nick

What do you mean? Debating is what is supposed to happen in a vs thread
 
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