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Big update to Orion's profile

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VS Battles
Darkseid has long since been updated, now it's time to handle Orion so his profile is up to code. I'll probably end up making a new thread for how we handle emanations vs godheads once I finish DC cosmology stuff I'm working on, but for now I just want to get Orion in line with Darkseid.

These scans were gathered by reading every issue Orion has appeared in.

Proposed updated profile for Orion: Here

1. As with Darkseid, Orion needs to be updated with proper terminology. His new keys will be: Pre-Flashpoint Emanation | Post-Flashpoint Emanation | Godhead

2. Orion's scaling needs to be updated and his time with the Anti-Life Equation needs to be mentioned, as it was a major part of his character arc in his solo run.

3. There are a ton of abilities missing from his profile.

4. Various other improvements have been made. His weakness and equipment sections are more detailed, the intelligence section is updated with his actual intelligence feats, he has proper attacks/techniques and feats sections, and there's a small gallery of his other outfits so casuals don't get confused). I also made actual renders for his Pre-Flashpoint and Post-Flashpoint emanations.

Orion's current profile makes no mention of the fact that he is extremely restrained almost all of the time. The central theme of his character is his inner war between his learned New Genesis side and his natural Apokolips side. Basically, nurture and nature.

To put it simply, if Orion isn't going up against Darkseid or he's not driven to the point where he's going absolutely rage-mode insane, he's not using anywhere close to his full power. And just being angry doesn't mean he's using full power either, because Orion is always angry. An example of that is his fight with Mantis shown below.

This is why a couple of his most well-known feats (containing the Oblivion Bomb and participating in the Cinque of Power) are not outliers for him. He's 4-B normally, but his full power is far beyond that and can't be used to scale 4-B characters from. His full power state was actually given a name: the Source of the Beast.

A couple examples for your reading pleasure:

In short, Base Orion scales to 4-B characters like Superman, Mantis, etc. Source of the Beast Orion unequivocally scales to Darkseid and Highfather, as seen in the profile draft above.

Powers and Abilities
Almost none of Orion's Powers and Abilities have scans proving they're legit. I added those, as well as all his missing abilities.

Post-Flashpoint Orion is waaaaaaaay less versatile than Pre-Flashpoint Orion so, as with Darkseid, I put in a separate tab for this version.

Here's the list:
Powers (Pre-FP)

All abilities granted by his Mother Box, plus:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics

Genius Intelligence

Martial Arts (The finest warrior of New Genesis; Used superior skill to stomp Kalibak despite their equal physical strength)

Enhanced Senses (Can maneuver perfectly well without eyes by using his other senses and Mother Box)

Immortality (Type 1; Type 9 - the true Orion exists in a higher-dimensional plane)

Self-Sustenance (Type 1)

Large Size (Type 6 - New Gods are so large that the Earth is a speck to them)


Regenerationn (Mid on his own - Possesses a healing factor that quickly healed a damaged brain and organs; High using Mother Box)

Gravity Manipulation and Energy Manipulation (The Astro-Force controls the fundamental forces)

Energy Projection (Can channel the Astro-Force into both omnidirectional and focused blasts; Can also fire blasts from his hands without the Astro-Harness)

Danmaku (Can fire barrages of smaller Astro-Force blasts)

Forcefield Creation (Made a shield against Kalibak's beam)

Attack Reflection (Can reflect energy attacks with a shield of Astro-Force)

Deconstruction (Disintegrated Slig by removing the binding force between his atoms)

Aura (Can enhance his physical attacks by cloaking himself in energy)

Magnetism Manipulation (Can telekinetically move massive objects by using Astro-Force to create a magna-lock)

Summoning (Can instantly summon his Mother Box as well as his dog Sturmer)

Spatial Manipulation (Contained the Oblivion Bomb which would have instantly collapsed all of space itself into a massive black hole; Sealed tears in reality)

Time Travel (Stated that any god can easily move through time)

Limited Reality Warping (Used the Astro-Force to reverse the reality warping caused by Darkseid's attack on the Source)

Reactive Evolution (Adjusted to the Anti-Life fragment's energy used by Darkseid so that it no longer effected him)

Instinctive Reaction (Defeated a squad of soldiers while unconscious, moving via instinct)

Astral Projection (Can project his face across the sky)

Body Control (Can grow claws when accessing his true power)

With the Anti-Life Equation (Pre-FP)

Power Bestowal (Bestowed his Anti-Life voice on Gedirath)

Resurrection (Returned Desaad to life)

Mind Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Soul Manipulation and Morality Manipulation (Put the entire world, including strong telepaths like Martian Manhunter, under his complete control, enslaving their souls)

Resistances (Pre-FP)

Life Drai (Unaffected by the Morrow Block's planetary-scale life drain)

Reality Warping (Unaffected by the reality warping caused by Darkseid's attack on the Source)

Existence Erasure (Resisted Darkseid's Omega Beams)

Biological Manipulation (Slig could only superficially transform Orio with his mutating power)

Pain Manipulation (Used the Astro-Force to smother some of the effects of the Nerve Beam)

Telepathy (Martian Manhunter stated New Gods are hard to touch telepathically)

Fear Manipulation (Trained to resist all degrees of fear, such as Desaad's fear machine)

Empathic Manipulation and Willpower Manipulation (Resisted Desaad's spirit-breaking machine)

Electricity Manipulation (Resisted Mantis' electric touch)

Illusion Creation (Dispelled Desaad's disguise with a touch)

Extreme Cold and Cosmic Radiation (Can fly in space unharmed)

Powers (Post-FP)

Superhuman Physical Characteristics

Immortality (Type 1)

Self-Sustenance (Types 1 and 2)


Energy Projection (Can fire blasts of Astro-Force)

Portal Creation and Dimensional Travel (Can summon boom tubes)

BFR (Boom tubes can be used to banish targets)

Resistances (Post-FP)

Disease Manipulation (New God physiology makes them immune to disease)

Powers (Godhead)

All previous abilities to a much greater degree, plus:

Abstract Existence (Type 1 - New Gods are living ideas from a platonic, archetypal world)

Self-Sustenance (Type 3)


Higher-Dimensional Existence

Large Size (Type 10 - Comparable in size to Godhead Darkseid, who was large enough to fall over the entire multiverse)

While Orion is usually far from a strategic fighter, he's legitimately a genius. His building of the Genesis Box while deprived of his godhood qualifies for Supergenius since it destroyed and remade the timeline without Darkseid's taint.
Orion has tanked a Universal attack when he was using the Full power of his Astral Force, so could he be 3-A while using all of his Astral Force?
I've taken a more thorough look now, everything looks in order and extremely well detailed, and there doesn't appear to be any issues from what I can tell. Will obviously need more input but this seems good to go from the outset.
This seems fine, with the exception that I do not think that Orion has shown enough versatility in his inventions to qualify for a Supergenius rating. Extraordinary Genius is fine though.
Antvasima said:
This seems fine, with the exception that I do not think that Orion has shown enough versatility in his inventions to qualify for a Supergenius rating. Extraordinary Genius is fine though.
^I'm fine with going with Extraordinary Genius due to lack of variety. I still think the scope of Orion's feat far outstrips the definition of Extraordinary Genius on the Intelligence page though.
Very good this, I agree with the OP. Finally orion is being well evaluated, and new gods v4 is very good.

Those definitions are usually a minimum requirement for Extraordinary Genius. Supergenius has far greater ones.
Doesn't Supergenius mean building stuff that defies laws of physics or warps reality? Looks to me like Orion did just that when he built a machine that literally destroyed and rewrote a timeline.
I agree with Extraordinary Genius and Supergenius aswell. Just to remember in new gods v1-v2-v3, have a bunch of orion feats in this scale.
Supergenius basically means that you can consistently warp reality almost any way that you want with your inventions, inclding creating customised alternative universes and feats of a similar scale. Think Azmuth, Brainiac, Rick Sanchez, and Mister Fantastic.
LordUrien935 said:
Doesn't Supergenius mean building stuff that defies laws of physics or warps reality? Looks to me like Orion did just that when he built a machine that literally destroyed and rewrote a timeline.
If we go to see for cultural learning, all the new gods fit in as supergenius, because they are all a citadel of futuristic gods, and each of whom plays a very important role. So built a motherbox that is their main technology, it's something that should be pretty easy for any of them due to the culturalization of these gods, they should learn from homework during their ripening process.

Most of its technologies are created by users themselves.
Metron and Himon are supergeniuses, but the average New God is more likely only Extraordinary Genius level.
We have extremely strict standards for supergenius and shouldn't loosen them up to get inflation for the statistic.
Is somebody willing to apply the accepted changes here?
He recently told me that he does not have the time or interest to help out in this wiki nearly as much anymore, so somebody else will likely have to perform these changes instead.
Thank you. Is there anything left to do here?
There will most likely be other New Gods that POTM makes an updated profile for in the future, but as far as this thread's concerned I believe everything has been properly dealt with
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