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Bernkastel VS Star Maker

Considering that both have Plot Manipulation... we don't know if it is the Creative Mode or the Ultimate Spirit. The later would give her a lot of problems and it doesn't have something to exploit as a weakness. Can someone please paste a link with something describing her powerlevel crearly?
 
Can someone please close the thread since there are no arguments for Bern's victory. If The Maker is going to be revised then we have to read the novel.
 
Zach do you make dumb threads on purpose? (P.S I still love you) I think Bern probs take this. 7th expansion is a silly verse. Starmakers' verse probs exists in the cathederal/library as a really ******* big kakera.

I dunno MUH INFINITY IS BIGGER THEN YOURS basically
 
Well, no, the Starmaker's verse from what I've seen wouldn't get past the first ladder.

As the difference between each step in the ladder is greater than the difference between a Dimensional object and a Dimensionless object.

This goes on so many times that the concept of moving up the ladder loses meaning.
 
The Star Maker
This is just a """time scale""".

EDIT: I know that you may be thinking that the lines in the circle represent the amount of cosmoses The Maker did, but actually the amount is unlimited. It just show us the creating process.
 
I really didnt want to write on this thread but sigh.

Is there any new evidence regarding the difference between the cosmoses outside of vague "greater/less comprehensible" statements? If not then this match isnt any different than Star Maker vs any god damn Hadou God. The only difference being that the difference between the average Hadou god and a lowballed Voyager is as big as a Hadou God vs Hajun.

Im sick of getting called a downplayer for doubting such high rankings of the Star Maker, despite people, who claim that he is that high fail to provide any meaningful scan or excerpt.

As i mentioned in literally every other 1A match, whose matches will never be fair. The sheer difference between them in that tier is so enormous, that every argument will boil down to who stomp who. Hax dosnt matter, character dosnt matter, skill/experience dosnt matter, never mattered and will never matter.
 
Udlmaster said:
While nice and all, it's still less than the 2nd rung on the ladder
Click to expand...
Why? If we go by the power we could say that Bern is "more powerful" (I doubt it) but if we guide by the intellect Bern can't understand how "2+2=4" against The Maker. She is powerful and she could understand the cosmology but a being that doesn't need to fight and NEVER could die... I think the intelligence is something that matters here.
 
First Witch said:
I really didnt want to write on this thread but sigh.

Is there any new evidence regarding the difference between the cosmoses outside of vague "greater/less comprehensible" statements? If not then this match isnt any different than Star Maker vs any god damn Hadou God. The only difference being that the difference between the average Hadou god and a lowballed Voyager is as big as a Hadou God vs Hajun.

Im sick of getting called a downplayer for doubting such high rankings of the Star Maker, despite people, who claim that he is that high fail to provide any meaningful scan or excerpt.

As i mentioned in literally every other 1A match, whose matches will never be fair. The sheer difference between them in that tier is so enormous, that every argument will boil down to who stomp who. Hax dosnt matter, character dosnt matter, skill/experience dosnt matter, never mattered and will never matter.
Click to expand...
Sorry that I quote this amount of text, Witch, but there's no problem with you commenting here. The other threads The Maker was and I was commenting... I could say that I wasn't living a good moment in my life (for real). I'm trying to move on and if The Maker loses it will lose but I came here to debate, not to have those conflicts I had in the other threads. Sorry.
 
Well i will admit. The umineko cosmology has been confirmed to be insanely vast, similair to, if not bigger than the Cthulhu Mythos also insane cosmology. But anyways

the metaphysical power that underlies the existence of the world/Shinra Bansho, which in addition to the three-dimensional universe includes a far higher dimensions, complex quantum structures, wave functions, as well as unimaginable realms out of all time, space/place and coordinates/dimensions, beyond there is the transcendental coneptual hierarchy, where higher concepts cannot be defined in terms of infinity and everything listed below, and at the peak of existence and intellect disappears even the meaning of steps which determine perspectives of everything that was below it is also to be noted that the immense difference between dimensional limited beings and dimensional transcendent beings are immeasurably smaller than one layer within the gameboard that Bernkastel resides on which encompasses endless layers, the conceptual hierarchy is so vast that the meaning of these steps become so irrelevant they dissapear from existence, putting Bernkastel beyond a infinite inaccesible hierarchy of endless steps beyond all of time and space)

Code: 
https://imgur.com/gallery/EUAqhTL
 
BA beste decke OVO

But srsly Endless Astrograph Sorcerer just sounded great in my head. BA is tied for my fav deck though

Might temporarily switch it to a Majespecter Kirin pic to honor the pends
 
Game Master Battler said:
Well i will admit. The umineko cosmology has been confirmed to be insanely vast, similair to, if not bigger than the Cthulhu Mythos also insane cosmology. But anyways
the metaphysical power that underlies the existence of the world/Shinra Bansho, which in addition to the three-dimensional universe includes a far higher dimensions, complex quantum structures, wave functions, as well as unimaginable realms out of all time, space/place and coordinates/dimensions, beyond there is the transcendental coneptual hierarchy, where higher concepts cannot be defined in terms of infinity and everything listed below, and at the peak of existence and intellect disappears even the meaning of steps which determine perspectives of everything that was below it is also to be noted that the immense difference between dimensional limited beings and dimensional transcendent beings are immeasurably smaller than one layer within the gameboard that Bernkastel resides on which encompasses endless layers, the conceptual hierarchy is so vast that the meaning of these steps become so irrelevant they dissapear from existence, putting Bernkastel beyond a infinite inaccesible hierarchy of endless steps beyond all of time and space)

Code: 
https://imgur.com/gallery/EUAqhTL
Click to expand...
Now I am emotionally better to debate here :)

May I ask one thing for Bern's profile? Can someone please add the Immortality Type 10 and the True Godly Rege in her powers? We all know that she has those two. Also shouldn't we add Immersion to her powers since she can turn reality into fiction?

Again, sorry to quote that amount of text but I found it as an offense to just put "snip" in the quotation.

Regarding what was said she is VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY powerful, I agree with you and Witch, but the thing is that The Maker isn't even bounded by being powerful or even existence. I know that it sounds like a Suggsverse BS but I read in the book (yes, I've finally bought it) that once it "reach" the Ultimate Spirit we can say that it doesn't even has a personality. Let's say that Bern turn it into a fictional character in the fight, The Maker knows that it's a fictional character in a book but it still exists as separate "entity". On the intelligence part, Bern could understand how some of the cosmos work but there will be a point where she cannot comprehend how the cosmoses work

In the image I showed, the beggining point is at the same time the end. It's like saying "I am the beggining and end of everything and nothing".Even if her Truths were able to "hurt" The Maker, I can safely say that it knew about that and even "planned" it. Also, even if she is omnipresent I can say that The Maker is even her Cats, Libraries, her Truths or even Bern herself.

Also, sorry for taking so long to give an answer but maybe antidepressives is what my psychiatrist would give me after my accident at work.
 
"Isnt bound by being powerful" the heck does that mean? Also bern doesnt become more powerful in a sense she becoems less restricted and loses limits as she pleases, i dont see how not having a personality is in anyway impressive and lol bern can comprehend endless realms of inaccesible infinites each more complex and incomprehensible than the last on a weaker manifestation, heck her avatar is on the APEX of the domain of witches due to her being qualified as a senate which is immeasurably less restricted by the bern i mentioned who could comprehend all those impossible realms, one of her greatest moves she used to take out battler literally pulls out a endless amount of questions, facts, and mysteries of different worlds in umineko that she controls at will

Not to mention she has a literal NLF ability which allows her to pick out any outcome of the fight that she wills

And truths dont just "hurt" the opponent. These are unavoidable attacks that literally erase the concept of the opponent beyond all possibilities impossibilities, being able to erase you completely beyond endless realms of reality, these are even more effective than a endless amount of attacks that can easily bust 1-A realms shown when bern and lamb had their massive fight in the city of books, erasing and rebirthing entire 1-A verses every moment of their fight, but bern and lamb barely put a scratch on eachother

You mentioned omnipresence? First id like to say that the maker isnt "berns library or bern herself" unless you can prove hes omnipresent on the same scale that bern is which is unfathomably above 1-A, secondly if also im assuming youre talking about her true form now since you mentioned omnipresence. If thats the case then you should know that her true form is a literal archetypal law, not just over the witches but over the entire cosmology itself, only being limited by the creators boundlessness, its literally connected to the creators limitlessness itself, but most importantly this form is beyond perspective and even truth, it views fighting and conflict as irrelevant, this true form of bern will not fight in anyway its the same thing of when she was put against nyarlathotep
 
Most of us think that The Maker just goes there and uses its attacks in a Marvel way. That's not accurate. The thing is that Bern was human and she can't decipher The Maker's nature or understand what is she fighting (I would mention her alcoholism but making fun of that is hurtful for me...family matters). When we talk about her power level I don't mean to say "lOL, sHE's ZO WeAk", actually I respect her place in 1-A but the thing is that she has a lot of limitations regarding traumas, her faith in magic, and her lack of an all knowing intellect. That's why I brought the personality matters to the fight: she still suffers things from her "past" and sometimes things bore her. The Maker doesn't even need to humillate, confront or hurt her in any way since a direct confrontation with it will be useless since it is everything even its own "death". The irrelevance regarding the fight matters since The Maker is the same in that way. We can say that Bern is The Maker and The Maker is Bern. But it's also Rika Furude. Not saying that it would result in a Bleach plot twist but Bern wasn't always Bern and that alterego bothers her.

She can't kill The Maker, turn it into fiction or even destroy all the cosmoses.
 
My God that cringe. This is why many complain about category 1-A above, basically it is being NLF, hyperbolic and flowered language.

Code: 
StarMaker is superior even to Featherine.
 
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