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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

Btw here’s a quick draft on what Ben’s updated keys might look like:

Tier: 10-B physically, 5-A with weaponry and Omnitrix failsafes, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to 5-A while in alien forms | 10-B physically, 5-A with weaponry and Omnitrix failsafes, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to High 5-A while in alien forms | 10-B physically, 5-A with Omnitrix failsafes, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to High 5-A while in alien forms

Key: Season 1-3 | Season 4/Destroy All Aliens | Omniverse Flashbacks

Tier: 5-A, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 5-A to High 5-A while in alien forms | 5-A, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to High 5-A while in alien forms | 5-A, varies up to 2-A with Ultimatrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to High 5-A while in alien forms, varies from 5-A to High 5-A while in Ultimate forms | 5-A, varies up to 2-A with Ultimatrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to High 5-A while in alien forms, varies from 5-A to at least 4-B, possibly 4-A while in Ultimate forms | At least 4-B, possibly 4-A, varies up to 2-A with Ultimatrix Self-Destruct mode | 1-B

Key: Alien Force Season 1 | Alien Force Season 2 | Ultimate Alien Season 1-2 | Ultimate Alien Season 3 | Wielding Ascalon (This form is called “The Ultimate Knight” in my heart) | Alien X

Tier: 5-A, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to High 5-A while in alien forms | 5-A, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to High 5-A while in alien forms | 5-A, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to at least 4-B, possibly 4-A while in alien forms | 5-A, varies from 10-C to 1-B with Skurd constructs, varies up to 2-A with Omnitrix Self-Destruct mode; Varies from 10-C to at least 4-B, possibly 4-A while in alien forms | 1-B

Key: Season 1-2 | Season 3 | Season 4-7 | Season 8 | Alien X

Any thoughts or suggestions would be nice, as I’m not 100% on all of this (the constant “varies” looks especially awkward but idk what to do about that one). As you can see I decided to split keys only based on meaningful tiering changes, as regardless of how the final piece will look each key is gonna take a lot of space. One thing I’m not sure of though is how to handle absorption aliens, as indexing Chromastone, Eatle and Feedback’s peaks seems pretty important. Maybe “Varies up to [tier] with absorption aliens” or something?
 
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GeneralSol16 said:
I don't think so.
We've seen that the abilities of Ben's aliens get stronger with age too (Like Diamondhead crustalkinesis).

He should be around "Way higher with absorption" or smith like that.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s the big thing, the differences in stats between aliens is massively different depending on the category. Like speed basically never increases whereas LS sometimes has a massive boost. Also this applies to both his energy-based durability and his ability proficiency, which gives us two values to work with.
 
Part of me wonders if I should apply the same format I ultimately decide on for the other Omnitrix users. Some consistency for the profiles would be nice.
 
Just a small addition to Mark Hamill

vsbattles.com

Ben 10: Hyperversal Maltruant (With Prep)

Hi y’all, pretty simple one. Maltruant should have access to the Annihilarrgh and the Chronosapien Time Bomb on his profile. This would give him: That’s all, folks. Agree: @NXCHT.66, @zaraus, @Accelerated_Evolution, @Hellformer, @Celestial_Scaler25, @Firestorm808 Disagree: Neutral:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
It created the timestream which is 26D. Omniverse often uses the word “universe” when they actually mean basically all of time and space.
Click to expand...
Ah, not trying to debunk anything or something, just want to clear up some doubts.
But, the Time stream was created because of Ben finding the Omnitrix, so, basically, it diverges from Prime timeline.

It is said that he was gonna to create the entire time stream?
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Ah, not trying to debunk anything or something, just want to clear up some doubts.
But, the Time stream was created because of Ben finding the Omnitrix, so, basically, it diverges from Prime timeline.

It is said that he was gonna to create the entire time stream?
Click to expand...
Tbh I’m not the best person to ask, but from what I understand the Annihilarrgh creates time which means it creates everything bound by it. Idk it’s probably better to ask someone else about how it all actually works.
 
So should the Alpha Rune, Anodites, Bezel and Future Gwen upscale from Ultimate Ben’s magic by default or is there any reason why they shouldn’t?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
So should the Alpha Rune, Anodites, Bezel and Future Gwen upscale from Ultimate Ben’s magic by default or is there any reason why they shouldn’t?
Click to expand...
I would say that even Base Gwen could upscale, lol.
Ult Ben says that that's is just "a trick" that he learned, it's not like that's something very advanced or considered powerful.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
I would say that even Base Gwen could upscale, lol.
Ult Ben says that that's is just "a trick" that he learned, it's not like that's something very advanced or considered powerful.
Click to expand...
Gwen at her peak already technically would just based off of scaling to Dagon, but Gwen’s basic spells scaling to Ultimate Ben’s has some really awkward scaling issues considering Ultimate Ben’s magic scales to an amped timeline level Eon.
 
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Here’s some maybe useful info from Race Against Time’s pop-up trivia (all from this page on the Ben 10 wiki):
  • “Eon is a Chronian, an extremely powerful race of aliens with vast powers over matter, energy and time.” - Some vague statements about Chronians being super cracked, although it makes me wonder what they mean by “matter” and “energy”.
  • “The minions of Eon are made up of warriors from throughout time - twisted by Eon into the creatures they have become.” - I’m not the best with P&A stuff, but this sounds like Corruption.
  • “Eon’s energy blasts can instantly age someone hundreds of years older.” - “Instantly” is likely hyperbole considering how Diamondhead’s resistance to age manip works, but this does give us an idea on how potent Eon’s age manip is.
  • “The Chronians used their powers to place themselves in another dimension to escape the effects of time, but wound up trapped there.” - OK so this is actually kinda big for me, since it means that the dimension we see them in from the movie isn’t even their home. That means I don’t even need to try and argue that planet is an alternate version of Earth.
  • “Eon’s powers over energy are allowing himself to control the cars.” - What ability would this be? Again I am pretty rubbish with P&A stuff.
  • “Chronia was a beautiful world until its people ruined it in their greed to obtain more power over space and time.” - This ties into what Eon says in the movie where he says the Chronians were “Gods who grew too strong and destroyed themselves”. The “more power over space and time” part is kinda interesting since the wording suggests they were aiming to have full control over the universe and maybe beyond that, which could tie into OV Eon’s goal to have “absolute power over everything”. I don’t think this really matters in a powerscaling sense though since the statement is too vague.
  • “The Hands needed the full power of a young Chronian to become activated.” - We know “needed” isn’t exactly true anymore thanks to Ultimate Ben and Way Big doing the same thing when they combined their power, however it does make me wonder what they meant by “needed the full power of a young Chronian”. Did they mean the Hands needed specifically a Chronian to do it or that only a young Chronian physically had enough power to do it? Because if you went for the latter and applied it to only OS stuff, that still would put him above a To’kustar.
  • “The weird energy fluctuations of the Hands is making it impossible for Gwen to use her magic.” - idk if this can be used for anything.
  • “The Hands’ defences were dropped once it was powered on, making it easy to destroy.” - Nice to know we have an explanation on why Wildmutt and Jetray are able to destroy the Hands so easily.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Here’s some maybe useful info from Race Against Time’s pop-up trivia (all from this page on the Ben 10 wiki):
  • “Eon is a Chronian, an extremely powerful race of aliens with vast powers over matter, energy and time.” - Some vague statements about Chronians being super cracked, although it makes me wonder what they mean by “matter” and “energy”.
  • “The minions of Eon are made up of warriors from throughout time - twisted by Eon into the creatures they have become.” - I’m not the best with P&A stuff, but this sounds like Corruption.
  • “Eon’s energy blasts can instantly age someone hundreds of years older.” - “Instantly” is likely hyperbole considering how Diamondhead’s resistance to age manip works, but this does give us an idea on how potent Eon’s age manip is.
  • “The Chronians used their powers to place themselves in another dimension to escape the effects of time, but wound up trapped there.” - OK so this is actually kinda big for me, since it means that the dimension we see them in from the movie isn’t even their home. That means I don’t even need to try and argue that planet is an alternate version of Earth.
  • “Eon’s powers over energy are allowing himself to control the cars.” - What ability would this be? Again I am pretty rubbish with P&A stuff.
  • “Chronia was a beautiful world until its people ruined it in their greed to obtain more power over space and time.” - This ties into what Eon says in the movie where he says the Chronians were “Gods who grew too strong and destroyed themselves”. The “more power over space and time” part is kinda interesting since the wording suggests they were aiming to have full control over the universe and maybe beyond that, which could tie into OV Eon’s goal to have “absolute power over everything”. I don’t think this really matters in a powerscaling sense though since the statement is too vague.
  • “The Hands needed the full power of a young Chronian to become activated.” - We know “needed” isn’t exactly true anymore thanks to Ultimate Ben and Way Big doing the same thing when they combined their power, however it does make me wonder what they meant by “needed the full power of a young Chronian”. Did they mean the Hands needed specifically a Chronian to do it or that only a young Chronian physically had enough power to do it? Because if you went for the latter and applied it to only OS stuff, that still would put him above a To’kustar.
  • “The weird energy fluctuations of the Hands is making it impossible for Gwen to use her magic.” - idk if this can be used for anything.
  • “The Hands’ defences were dropped once it was powered on, making it easy to destroy.” - Nice to know we have an explanation on why Wildmutt and Jetray are able to destroy the Hands so easily.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't Diamondhead 10K Upscale from Eon's blast? He need to tank the energy too, even if he resists being aged.

And I don't think the "instantly" phrase is a hyperbole, we saw that he aged Way Big to dust instantly
 
Ben (and Gwen) in OS when they tell him he can't use his aliens to do the tasks:Ok sure Immediately uses his aliens when they aren't looking so he can skip his and Gwen's work

Ben in OV when they tell him he can't use his aliens to do the tasks:If they say I don't then I won't, I'm a man of my word!
 
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GeneralSol16 said:
Shouldn't Diamondhead 10K Upscale from Eon's blast? He need to tank the energy too, even if he resists being aged.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but Ultimate Ben is weird and idk if he gets some kind of extra power boost or not. Giving regular ol’ Diamondhead 10K 2-A would also snowball into a bunch of other characters getting 2-A, and I’d rather wait until I’ve collected enough 2-A arguments so I can hopefully guarantee that kind of upgrade.

GeneralSol16 said:
And I don't think the "instantly" phrase is a hyperbole, we saw that he aged Way Big to dust instantly
Click to expand...
By “hyperbole” I just mean it doesn’t happen literally instantly. Diamondhead’s resistance comes from diamonds aging really slowly, but if Eon literally ages stuff hundreds of years instantly then he could also age someone trillions of years instantly. It does happen very quickly though.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Maybe, but Ultimate Ben is weird and idk if he gets some kind of extra power boost or not. Giving regular ol’ Diamondhead 10K 2-A would also snowball into a bunch of other characters getting 2-A, and I’d rather wait until I’ve collected enough 2-A arguments so I can hopefully guarantee that kind of upgrade.
Click to expand...
Well, it's not like anyone scales to Ben 10K's aliens aside from future Charecters.
Also, if Anodite Gwen scales to this, Atomix, Ult Way Big, Atomix, etc would scale too, eight,m

But I've a question: Doesn't Eon just scale to 2-A via absorbing Prime Ben? Or is he 2A during all of the UA episode?
Ghengiroo115 said:
By “hyperbole” I just mean it doesn’t happen literally instantly. Diamondhead’s resistance comes from diamonds aging really slowly, but if Eon literally ages stuff hundreds of years instantly then he could also age someone trillions of years instantly. It does happen very quickly though.
Click to expand...
Well, it's not like Diamondhead is actually made of real diamonds, so maybe he is just way resistant to age
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Well, it's not like anyone scales to Ben 10K's aliens aside from future Charecters.
Also, if Anodite Gwen scales to this, Atomix, Ult Way Big, Atomix, etc would scale too, eight,m
Click to expand...
Yup, I’d rather just not risk it tbh. I think just keeping it to Eon and Ultimate Ben for now is good, since it doesn’t massively change the scaling.

GeneralSol16 said:
But I've a question: Doesn't Eon just scale to 2-A via absorbing Prime Ben? Or is he 2A during all of the UA episode?
Click to expand...
They treat Eon absorbing Ben 10K and/or Ben Prime as no different to him absorbing other Bens. “I’ll finally have the strength” also shows that each Ben was giving a similar amount of power and he was basing his statement from prior knowledge. He downscales from the feat since it doesn’t make sense for him to become multiple infinities stronger just from absorbing one or two Bens.

GeneralSol16 said:
Well, it's not like Diamondhead is actually made of real diamonds, so maybe he is just way resistant to age
Click to expand...
True actually, yeah.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Yup, I’d rather just not risk it tbh. I think just keeping it to Eon and Ultimate Ben for now is good, since it doesn’t massively change the scaling.
Click to expand...
Ig
Ghengiroo115 said:
They treat Eon absorbing Ben 10K and/or Ben Prime as no different to him absorbing other Bens. “I’ll finally have the strength” also shows that each Ben was giving a similar amount of power and he was basing his statement from prior knowledge. He downscales from the feat since it doesn’t make sense for him to become multiple infinities stronger just from absorbing one or two Bens.
Click to expand...
Idk, the franchise regularly says that Prime Ben (and during that episode, Ultimate Ben was Ben's "true future") as cosmically more important than any other version, so it wouldn't be so weird that absorbing the Ben that causes the entirety of the Multiverse to exist would make him massively stronger than before
Ghengiroo115 said:
True actually, yeah.
Click to expand...
Atomix stronger than Superman and Goku...just awesomeness.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Idk, the franchise regularly says that Prime Ben (and during that episode, Ultimate Ben was Ben's "true future") as cosmically more important than any other version, so it wouldn't be so weird that absorbing the Ben that causes the entirety of the Multiverse to exist would make him massively stronger than before
Click to expand...
I mean, isn’t the idea of “Ben Prime” only ever brought up during the No Watch Ben storyline? I don’t think it’s brought up anywhere else in Omniverse (might be wrong), and I’m pretty sure that concept wasn’t a thing at all before OV. The idea of “Ben Prime” not existing at the time combined with Eon in-universe treating the two Bens as no different should mean the power boost isn’t any different either. Also Ben gets his energy absorbed in other instances with no mention of any crazy power he holds.

GeneralSol16 said:
Atomix stronger than Superman and Goku...just awesomeness.
Click to expand...
As he deserves
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I mean, isn’t the idea of “Ben Prime” only ever brought up during the No Watch Ben storyline? I don’t think it’s brought up anywhere else in Omniverse (might be wrong), and I’m pretty sure that concept wasn’t a thing at all before OV. The idea of “Ben Prime” not existing at the time combined with Eon in-universe treating the two Bens as no different should mean the power boost isn’t any different either. Also Ben gets his energy absorbed in other instances with no mention of any crazy power he holds.
Click to expand...
I'm 80% sure that the Prime timelines was a thing since UA, especially during that episode, but I don't know at all.
Ghengiroo115 said:
As he deserves
Click to expand...
It's hilarious how he es actually Ben 2nd strongest alien, by a absurd difference


Btw, aside from the things listed in the profiles, are there any "Tier 4" weapons or Charecters in the franchise?
 
GeneralSol16 said:
I'm 80% sure that the Prime timelines was a thing since UA, especially during that episode, but I don't know at all.
Click to expand...
I don’t remember any mention of Ben’s timeline being the Prime one during UA, but either way it’s more so an extra support for my stance rather than the main thing. Eon not treating the Bens as significant and no other characters becoming uber strong by absorbing Ben Prime are both much better reasons for Eon to downscale for the entire episode.

GeneralSol16 said:
Btw, aside from the things listed in the profiles, are there any "Tier 4" weapons or Charecters in the franchise?
Click to expand...
I think it’s just those.
 
Btw can anyone explain to me the accepted reason for the souls Dagon absorbed being 2-A? Because the profile does not explain it at all. All it does is link to Charmcaster’s profile which wasn’t even updated.
 
They're both planetary, like sure to a much lesser degree than the other but I think the fact any of them reaches planetary is absurd in off itself.
 
Also eventually I will make a thread for Malware to gain Durability Negation with the Tachyon Cannon, cause it's a crime he doesn't have it.
 
Starting to wonder if Eon’s “absorbing Bens” thing is just to make himself younger and doesn’t have much to do with their actual power…
 
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