Bayverse Transformers Revisions.

[Emirp sumitpo]

Laughs in jet powered Optimus

 

[LordTracer]

Laughs in jet powered Optimus

He got trapped by some ropes, fodder

 

[KLOL506]

Laughs in Sentinel and Lockdown

Didn't Optimus hold back in their cases?

 

[LordTracer]

Didn't Optimus hold back in their cases?

I don’t think he’s stated to have done so like with Megatron or in the forest battle. And both Sentinel and Lockdown were blatantly overpowering him, so eh

 

[Hellbeast]

Chews popcorn

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I can see Optimus holding back on Sentinel to a degree but I don't think he would with Lockdown

 

[LordTracer]

Either way, holding back Optimus logically wouldn’t be weaker than half-dead Optimus, so Grindor and Starscream being able to harm Optimus should still be valid.

 

[Shadyboi0]

We all know Barricade is the strongest .

 

[KLOL506]

I don’t think he’s stated to have done so like with Megatron or in the forest battle. And both Sentinel and Lockdown were blatantly overpowering him, so eh

Lockdown, maybe, but definitely not Sentinel, Optimus still hoped to make Sentinel see some sense.

And I was talking about Megs in the first movie, not the second one, ROTF Prime was definitely serious in that regard.

 

[LordTracer]

Lockdown, maybe, but definitely not Sentinel, Optimus still hoped to make Sentinel see some sense.

Sure, but Sentinel could still rip his arm off and stab him pretty easily, so it’s not like he doesn’t scale to Prime at all.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm not sure why Optinus would hold back against lockdown or sentinel. He only did so in the first movie because he wanted to avoid casualties.

 

[LordTracer]

Tbh it doesn’t really matter if he was holding back or not. This is about people scaling to his durability, and his durability feat happened while he was weakened and basically in stasis lock.

If someone can harm him, then they should scale regardless of if he’s holding back or not, because he logically wouldn’t be weaker than the state he was in when he had his durability feat.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

8-B, likely 8-A for everyone I suppose? (Considering we're still doing likely 8-A it seems)

 

[LordTracer]

We’re using both of Optimus’ calcs? Or is the 8-B due to scaling him above Blackout?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

We’re using both of Optimus’ calcs? Or is the 8-B due to scaling him above Blackout?

Optimus' current 8-B+ is already due to him scaling to him crashing on Cybertron, the likely 8-A comes from EPA's statement of Optimus being 10 tons.

Same goes for Low 7-C, due to there being a statement of the fallen being 50 tons in the script.

The current objective is to decide whether we want to scale everyone below prime to Blackout's 8-B or downscale from 8-B+

 

[LordTracer]

Prime’s calc is just barely 8-B+, so I would downscale to Blackout’s calc. But the question is if we should downscale to 8-B+ from the 8-A rating.

If we do, the people downscaling from Prime would be 8-B, likely 8-B+.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Prime’s calc is just barely 8-B+, so I would downscale to Blackout’s calc. But the question is if we should downscale to 8-B+ from the 8-A rating.

If we do, the people downscaling from Prime would be 8-B, likely 8-B+.

I thought we don't downscale or upscale with likely ratings?

 

[LordTracer]

I don’t think that’s a rule.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Huh. Then it's probably fine I suppose

 

[LordTracer]

I tried to make a scale of what the tiers would look like, but the ‘likely’ makes it way too complicated once we get to the Ironhide level people.

I think we need to choose what weight is the most accurate and just go with that end, because the ‘likely’ doesn’t really make that much sense.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think we should just stick to Low ends for both of the calculations. As 4.3 metrics tons is more consistent for Optimus and the Epps statement might not be literal, and the same goes for the Fallen's weight. Although one could argue 50 tons to be more true due to WoG

 

[LordTracer]

Remind me why 4.3 is more consistent for Optimus?

50 tons would be a lowball for The Fallen anyways since the script says that his foot alone is 50 tons, so that one is kinda eh.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Remind me why 4.3 is more consistent for Optimus?

50 tons would be a lowball for The Fallen anyways since the script says that his foot alone is 50 tons, so that one is kinda eh.

The guidebook, both of them, lists him as 4.3 metric tons. The trading card games also list him at 4.3 metric tons, and I do remember other sources listing him at that weight but I've yet find scans for that.

Which end do you as preferable?

 

[LordTracer]

The guidebook, both of them, lists him as 4.3 metric tons. The trading card games also list him at 4.3 metric tons, and I do remember other sources listing him at that weight but I've yet find scans for that.

Which end do you as preferable?

Mkay, then 4.3 metric tons should work.

The 9.1 metric tons end, more consistent with the other weights.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So 8-B+ and 8-A then?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think so. I'm all for just downscaling everyone else to 8-B

 

[LordTracer]

Alright, here is a general scale of what people should be scaling to.

8-B+ = Optimus, Megatron/Galvatron, Sentinel, Lockdown
8-B = Blackout/Grindor, Starscream, Grimlock, AoE/TLK Bumblebee, Shockwave
High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+ = Ironhide, Ratchet, Jazz, Brawl
High 8-C = Pre-AoE Bumblebee, Barricade

I have no earthly idea where Bonecrusher fits into this, he punched Optimus once and got his face deformed by a single punch from him (and Optimus was probably holding back since they were y’know, on a crowded freeway).

 

[LordTracer]

Actually someone remind me, did Ironhide ever harm Demolishor? Because if not, the ‘High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+’ tier should probably just be ‘At most High 8-C+.’ Cause they downscale from the 8-Bs, but they downscale significantly.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'd say likely 8-B is good enough.

Also I think we should probably try to calculate Ironhide dodging Brawl's projectiles, which are Supersonic+ to Hypersonic, instead of just leaving Ironhide at Supersonic+ for dodging it

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Actually someone remind me, did Ironhide ever harm Demolishor? Because if not, the ‘High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+’ tier should probably just be ‘At most High 8-C+.’ Cause they downscale from the 8-Bs, but they downscale significantly.

I thought Ironhide was the one who was helping Optimus shoot him down?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Actually someone remind me, did Ironhide ever harm Demolishor? Because if not, the ‘High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+’ tier should probably just be ‘At most High 8-C+.’ Cause they downscale from the 8-Bs, but they downscale significantly.

Yeah, Ironhide shot him in the face iirc. But I think High 8-C+ is a bit too far of a downscale? I think At most 8-B would be better

 

[LordTracer]

I'd say likely 8-B is good enough.

You know Blackout’s calc is damn near baseline, right?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I rewatched the scene, Ironhide shot at Demolisher's wheel and caused him to go off the freeway and crash into the building where Optimus executed him

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I thought Blackout downscale from Optimus? That should place him at the peak of 8-B

 

[LordTracer]

I thought Blackout downscale from Optimus? That should place him at the peak of 8-B

Yes Blackout downscales, but Optimus’ calc is BARELY 8-B+. And we can’t quantify what “the peak of 8-B” would be, so we should just scale Blackout from his calc.

I rewatched the scene, Ironhide shot at Demolisher's wheel and caused him to go off the freeway and crash into the building where Optimus executed him

Yeah, I rewatched it too. So yeah, ‘High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+’ for Ironhide tiers.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I have no earthly idea where Bonecrusher fits into this, he punched Optimus once and got his face deformed by a single punch from him (and Optimus was probably holding back since they were y’know, on a crowded freeway).

I mean the punch barely fazed him at all and he dispatched him without any real problem,. I'd say High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+ and at most we could put him at 8-B

 

[LordTracer]

8-B+ = Optimus, Megatron/Galvatron, Sentinel, Lockdown
8-B = Blackout/Grindor, Starscream, Grimlock, AoE/TLK Bumblebee, Shockwave
High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+ = Ironhide, Ratchet, Jazz, Brawl
High 8-C = Pre-AoE Bumblebee, Barricade

Just to explain some things here, Pre-AoE Bumblebee is downscaling from Brawl and Ironhide cause he can damage a weakened Brawl, but he’s clearly weaker than Ironhide since he took way more damage from Starscream’s attack.

Also Brawl is really weird. He low-key has no AP feats other than throwing Jazz, and I don’t know if that counts. I guess we could say that he forced Ironhide to dodge his attacks? He has dura though, since he took shots from Jazz and Ratchet.

 

[LordTracer]

I mean the punch barely fazed him at all and he dispatched him without any real problem,. I'd say High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+ and at most we could put him at 8-B

High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+ works, Jazz is in that tier for similar reasons (barely staggering Megatron and surviving one blast from him).

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Also what about hound and crosshairs?

Hound should be baseline as he could harm Megatron, and crosshairs should probably be placed at High 8-C+ for harming drones that could harm Hound

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah Hound should be an 8-B while Crosshairs is a High 8-C+.

Sideswipe should be ‘High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+’ since he was able to kill Crowbar, who took a point-blank shot from Ironhide.

TLK Barricade should be ‘At least High 8-C’ in AP due to being stronger than his 2007-DotM self and ‘At least High 8-C, possibly High 8-C+’ in durability due to taking hits from Bumblebee and Grimlock.

Soundwave is annoying as all hell to scale ‘Unknown, possibly High 8-C’ since he could push Bumblebee around and he scales above Ravage, who could cause chip damage to Bee.