• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bayonetta Verse Revisions: Hax and Existences

Status
Not open for further replies.
Comicgyal

Comicgyal

1,701
941
Bayonetta 2 Angel Revisions
Bayonetta 2 Demon Revisions
  • Demons need abstract existence type 2, and higher dimensional existence added to their page.
    • Many demons embody concepts such as fear, or repressed emotions. Much like angels, they'll be born as long as those concepts exist.
    • Disease manipulation, leaves trails of plague.
    • Immortality negation, type 4.
    • This gives Bayonetta power nullification
    • Witches formed pacts with demons, that were able to break gravity’s bonds
    • Bayonetta needs these hax added to her page, due to being able to summon these demons.
    • Bayonetta is also able to reverse space time bfr:
    • “One case I witnessed was particularly bad. The type of punishment that never gets better, hurting for all eternity, like a curse. An Umbra Witch had the Resting Place that carried her remains shattered into pieces and her soul flung into a rift in time and space, never to be saved again. Just thinking about what this witch must've done to get dealt a hand like that drives me almost insane with curiosity. I'd kill for the chance to sit down and chat with the Lumen Sages that did it to her.”
Balder hax additions via summonable angels.
Eyes of the world
 
Last edited:
I haven't taken a look at the suggestions for the eyes, bayo 2 demon revisions, or the bayo 2 angel revisions but I did take a look at balder's revisions.

I agree with the hax that comes from the 4 virtues because he has consistently been shown to use them, but I don't know if we should give him abilities from fodder angels that he never summons.
 
We should, whether he summons them or not, any angel that comes after Bayonetta is one that Balder has set in place. So no matter how weak, they’re important to add.
 
Also minor ability for all angels, light manip and life manip, its been shown a few tims that when Angels appear in the real world, plants in the area rapidly grow and bloom into flowers
 
They have those on their profiles already, so it’s all good in that department.

Edit: except for maybe life manip, so that can be added.
 
The precognition bit is a bit weird to me given it seems more like clairvoyance then Precog.

The rest seems okay
 
I also want to add that the space time bfr was done by the lumen sages, so bfr would also be an ability for balder.
 
Do any of these dimensions have any evidence of ontological superiority over the other? It says spiritual, and most people already can’t see spirits.
 
There’s a natural hierarchy in Bayonetta, and paradiso is stated to be the highest form of it.

“Paradiso is the Dimension of the Angels, existing in opposition to Inferno, the realm of the Infernal Demons. One of the three aspects of the Trinity of Realities created by the destruction and imprisonment of Jubileus, The Creator at the beginning of time.”

“The highest layer of the Trinity, Paradiso is home to the Laguna, or angels, and is closest to the human interpretation of heaven.”

The angels themselves even have a hierarchy with how they’re ranked, some obviously having a higher spiritual existence than the lower ranking ones.
 
Comicgyal said:
There’s a natural hierarchy in Bayonetta, and paradiso is stated to be the highest form of it.

“Paradiso is the Dimension of the Angels, existing in opposition to Inferno, the realm of the Infernal Demons. One of the three aspects of the Trinity of Realities created by the destruction and imprisonment of Jubileus, The Creator at the beginning of time.”

“The highest layer of the Trinity, Paradiso is home to the Laguna, or angels, and is closest to the human interpretation of heaven.”

The angels themselves even have a hierarchy with how they’re ranked, some obviously having a higher spiritual existence than the lower ranking ones.
Click to expand...
None of this implies ontological superiority. All three realms are already 3-A in size, yes? A higher spiritual existence doesn’t necessarily give anything, again, humans already cannot see spirits, so I higher spirit would naturally apply.

A higher spiritual existence attributes to their strength, so of course the stronger the Angel, the stronger the existence. That’s why there’s a difference between the First & Third Sphere’s, right? Beyond human understanding is still incredibly vague. Plenty of things are beyond human understanding, but they’re not necessarily higher-D.
 
Although that’s true, some angels are said to be close in existence to Aesir. Who’s said to already be above time and space, due to his nature as a god in the verse.

But his potential higher dimensional tiering is for the next crt, so I’m willing to halt the Higher-D scaling for angels until that thread. Until then we can focus on everything else.
 
All the hax additions here are straightforward, and don’t really need discussion outside of the higher D.

If just one or two more staff can give their thoughts, we should be able to approve this soon.
 
I actually was given privy to this information via the blog about it, and have already constructed my thoughts on the topic.

The general abilities all seem fine, but I two problems:

One, the more minor problem, is that it needs to be specified that Angels aren't being brought back via humanity's thoughts, but humanity creates new angles with their thoughts. I don't know if the intention was to try and bestow Angels with Type 8 or not, if it isn't, then ignore this, if it is, then it is wrong.


And secondly, I highly disagree with Higher Dimensional Existence.

It seems very obvious to me that it is more likely that each level of Angel is more and more abstract, and less physical than the lower levels - not that they are higher dimensional. That it's about the level of their existence as physical beings, not their existence in relation to the physical universe's dimensional axis.

As I said, the rest of it looks okay from a quick glance

But I highly disagree with Higher Dimensional Existence based on these scans and context.
 
Type 8 what exactly? I only mentioned abstract existence, which only has two types from what I’ve seen.

Also that’s fine.
 
Ah okay. Well so far it seems everyone is fine with additions, aside from higher-d. I’d say that gives a green light?
 
That kinda doesn’t make sense as an argument? You’re saying because he doesn’t use them = he shouldn’t have their hax, simply because the angels are weak, when that doesn’t matter. You never know what type of battle debate balder will be in, and the fact that he can summon legions of angels that can casually summon magma is good enough to be added.
 
Saying he doesn’t use them is wrong too, because leading up to his boss battle he covers the entire stage in “fodder” angels. So he obviously uses them.

Edit: and all the angels I added are either second spheres, or one of the bosses, so how are they fodder???
 
They're angels that literally haven't appeared near him ever. I don't see a reason to add their abilities to his profile when Balder has never been shown using them in any shape or form.

Adding auditos makes sense because he actually summons them. Weather Manip and Magma manip are fine to add, but I don't see why the abilities from second spheres should be added.
 
You realize that when you fight Balder in Bayonetta 1, he doesn’t summon any angels at all, right?

And when he does summon angels in Bayonetta 2, they’re bosses in order to combat Madama.

They should be added because they’re a reasonable part of his move set.
 
Balder not summoning in bayo 1 doesn't really mean anything.

That's incorrect. Balder straight up summoned Fortiduto in the first phase of the first encounter. It wasn't to counter Madama. Balder even made the first summon in the battle inside of insidious. That's 2 out of 2 summon fights where he makes the first summon.
 
Whenever balder summons an angel, it ends up fighting madama, which only happens twice.

I guess the angels are “fodder” in terms of Bayonetta gameplay, but in vs battles the angels as a whole only cap at 6-A. So it’s really not worth arguing if an angel is fodder or not.
 
No, you are still mistaken.

In the first fight after Bayo realizes that Balder is a Lumen sage, they smack each other around and Balder then summons Fortiduto, without Bayo having no demons on the battlefield. Bayo then summons Labolas in response. After the end of the 2nd phase Labolas defeats Fortiduto so Balder then oneshots it with his glaive. Bayo then summons Madama B, to which Balder summons Temperentina.

In the insidous stomach fight, they once again slap each other around and knock each other away. Balder then summons Sapentina first, to which Bayo responds with Hydra.

Balder also actively uses all of the Auditos in his wicked weaves.
 
Oh, right.

Still, saying balder shouldn’t have those angel hax because they’re weak angels isn’t a good argument. Especially when first spheres are stated to be planetary.

Everyone else already agreed to adding them as well.
 
While I did say they were fodder, That wasn't the point of my argument. The point is that Balder straight up never summons them or angels on their rank.

If we're gonna add abilities for Angels that Balder never uses then why don't we go ahead and apply the same logic to the witches?
 
Jeanne maybe, not Rosa. Jeanne is the only confirmed witch to have the alternate version of Bayonettas demons.

It’s not really said that the other witches have multiple summons, and Rosa is only said to have madam Khepri.
 
What? You just flipped a lot of logic. The whole reason Balder is getting the angel's abilities listed in his profile is because we assume he's capable of summoning these angels because he's an experienced lumen sage. Jeanne is a highly experienced witch and Rosa too.

So if I'm getting this right, Balder doesn't have to show himself summoning the Angels to get their abilities but Jeanne and Rosa do???? That's pretty twisted. Jeanne doesn't have "alternate" versions of demons. They're literally the same Demons that have different color schemes because of varying hair color.
 
For me, while Rosa is one of the witches who can summon loads of demons, it’s a bit harder to scale her imo since there are added demons in Bayonetta 2.

Adding a demon like Resentment who’s only in Bayonetta 2 to Rosas profile, might make people go “How do you know she can summon that? She’s only in Bayonetta 1.”

I understand where you’re coming from, though, and personally I’d also add it if that wasn’t a factor.

And it’s only like.. one demon that she wouldn’t have, and the hax which is immortality negation.
 
Bayo 1 or Bayo 2 doesnt matter at all. It's a timeline. Resentment not appearing in Bayo 2 wouldn't be a valid reason to say Rosa is incapable of summoning it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Comicgyal
  • Locked
Transdual Bayonetta
2 3 4
Replies
154
Views
8K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Comicgyal
Immeasurable Bayonetta : Speed Revisions
2
Replies
79
Views
5K
Comicgyal
Comicgyal
Comicgyal
  • Locked
Before Bayonetta 3 : Tier 2 Upgrades
2 3 4
Replies
128
Views
9K
Theglassman12
Theglassman12
Tony_di_bugalu
Aesir upgrade
2 3 4
Replies
148
Views
7K
ImmortalDread
ImmortalDread
Jinx666
Bayonetta/Umbra Witch weakness addition (Regarding the Umbran Watches)
Replies
16
Views
2K
Jinx666
Jinx666
Back
Top