Battle for the Top Non-Smurf Low 7-B - Strahd Von Zarovich Vs Etrien Gnosos

[Antoniofer]

Ruler of Barovia vs Nihilistic Spirit.

Stradh's AP: 2.57 Megatons.
Etrien's AP: 2.87 Megatons.

I believe that in order for Stradh to use all his abilities the battle needs to take care in Castle's Ravenloft.
Speed is equalized.

 

[Antoniofer]

Must be the first time I bump in ages.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Don't know either characters well, but from a glance, I only see two things Vlad Strahd can do to win.
One is mind hax, if he can overcome Etrien's resistance.
Other might be the magic null, assuming it can nullify the negative energy stuff Etrien is made of. (which is not exactly usual energy, I take it, but then it's D&D so decent chance there is some weird precedent for that)

 

[Antoniofer]

Leaving layered resistances aside for the moment, I doubt mind controlling an Etrien would be possible as they possesses Psychological Immunity.
As for the Etrien's negative energy, its considered a monster power, and stuff that alter magic, ki or psychic energy does not influence its powers. If one want to alter/negate those powers, one needs a specific power for that (such as the destruction spell Destroy Capabilities).

EDIT: Now that I read the description of Psychological Immunity, is does not say anything about preventing mind control, just inducement of emotional states, and the Etrien aren't completely mindless as they are considered intelligent and can take decisions through instinct. However, mind affecting effects in DnD do not work against vermins and such, and neither they are considered untillegint, so I doubt mind manipulating magic will work here either way.

 

[Tllmbrg]

EDIT: Now that I read the description of Psychological Immunity, is does not say anything about preventing mind control, just inducement of emotional states, and the Etrien aren't completely mindless as they are considered intelligent and can take decisions through instinct. However, mind affecting effects in DnD do not work against vermins and such, and neither they are considered untillegint, so I doubt mind manipulating magic will work here either way.

Okay first of all being unintelligent is not the deciding factor of if the mind control works or not
The reason it fails on vermins is because they count as mindless beings that can't really use higher form strategies
You have plenty of spells that effect animals, monsters and the like which we'd count as unintelligent which I'm not inclined to believe the Etrine qualifies for

Idc for the match but I want to clear up this detail

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, if a mental effect wouldn't work on, let's say, a giant ant, creature whose social organization is considered superior to humans, I have reasons to assume it wouldn't work in a red ant, a creature that does not even possesses the Psychological Immunity trait. Now, I understand that with the latest edition, there's no real difference between vermin and animal (a difference from previous editions, they do possesses an Intelligence score), but by the same reason, vermin-like creatures are no longer specially resistent to mind-based effects.

If we take that mind control does work, then we'll need to see into resistances and resistance bypassing layers. I do believe that as for DnD one considere that every +1 above 0 (that is human baseline) counts as a layers, is that correct?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Well, if a mental effect wouldn't work on, let's say, a giant ant, creature whose social organization is considered superior to humans, I have reasons to assume it wouldn't work in a red ant, a creature that does not even possesses the Psychological Immunity trait. Now, I understand that with the latest edition, there's no real difference between vermin and animal (a difference from previous editions, they do possesses an Intelligence score), but by the same reason, vermin-like creatures are no longer specially resistent to mind-based effects.

Okay but the reason it doesn't work is because of a certain logic in D&D, ants don't really have a mind of their own
This thing just seems to have a mind and functions more then a mindless beast, so I really don't think this compares

If we take that mind control does work, then we'll need to see into resistances and resistance bypassing layers. I do believe that as for DnD one considers that every +1 above 10 (that is human baseline) counts as a layers, is that correct?

Yah, although I'll mention that Strahd has fog mind so he can lower the thing's mental fortitude

 

[Antoniofer]

Wouldn't a check to avoid that be still available? Plus other thing, in Anima mental resistance and magic resistance are two different things, if you somehow decreases the mental resistance, that wouldn't decrease magic resistance of the Etrien. If there's a spell that cause some mental inducement, then the Etrien can choose between psychic resistance or magic resistance, whatever is higher.

There's also the possibility of the spells to be weakened by the void aura (there's no resistance possible here, similar Dispel Magic); this do not prevent the magic to be casted, but if the energy of the spell is reduced below its basic level, that means the spell is unable to materialize. One may surpass this by inverting more magical energy than the necessary.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Wouldn't a check to avoid that be still available? Plus other thing, in Anima mental resistance and magic resistance are two different things, if you somehow decreases the mental resistance, that wouldn't decrease magic resistance of the Etrien. If there's a spell that cause some mental inducement, then the Etrien can choose between psychic resistance or magic resistance, whatever is higher.

In D&D resisting magic effects and mental effects are the same thing, so I’d imagine it’d apply to both here?
It’s a spell that just lowers your mental fortitude
Also wym a check, dice rolls are an abstraction so either the thing resists it or not
Idk how Anima does it but D&D doesn’t treat dice rolls as that literal (Closest being that DC saves for stuff denotes general difficulty for something)

There's also the possibility of the spells to be weakened by the void aura (there's no resistance possible here, similar Dispel Magic); this do not prevent the magic to be casted, but if the energy of the spell is reduced below its basic level, that means the spell is unable to materialize. One may surpass this by inverting more magical energy than the necessary.

Dispel Magic can straight up fail though
In 3.5e Strahd a 10th level caster it’s seems so the check to dispel his magic is 21, which means that on average a faster with 20 in their spell casting score (The peak of regular spellcasters without any further modifications mind you) can’t usually succeed in it so there’s a decent chance he can straight up overpower the effect
Not to mention it notes that just putting more energy into a spell then usual can just bypasses it and stamina isn’t a real issue for Strahd so

 

[Antoniofer]

In D&D resisting magic effects and mental effects are the same thing, so I’d imagine it’d apply to both here?
It’s a spell that just lowers your mental fortitude
Also wym a check, dice rolls are an abstraction so either the thing resists it or not
Idk how Anima does it but D&D doesn’t treat dice rolls as that literal (Closest being that DC saves for stuff denotes general difficulty for something)

But in Anima psychic and mental resistance are different, the willpower of someone is independent of whoever can use magic or not, and neither does affect its resistance to magic; spells like mind reading are both mental and magical for instance, and when resisting the character may use the higher of the resistances. So the Etrien will keep using its supernatural resistance.

And what I mean with the avaliable resistance check is resistance is still possible; Mind Fog is not Stradh's most potent spell, so the probability of resisting is still possible.

Dispel Magic can straight up fail though
In 3.5e Strahd a 10th level caster it’s seems so the check to dispel his magic is 21, which means that on average a faster with 20 in their spell casting score (The peak of regular spellcasters without any further modifications mind you) can’t usually succeed in it so there’s a decent chance he can straight up overpower the effect
Not to mention it notes that just putting more energy into a spell then usual can just bypasses it and stamina isn’t a real issue for Strahd so

Does that resistance comes from a SR or any resistance to magic? In that case it may not apply here as void aura is not magic nor spell-like.

Unless Stradh possesses an infinite amount of magical supply, or regenerates magic at an incredible fast rate, Stradh's limitless stamina wouldn't help. Void aura decreases the zeonic (or mana) value of spells, so the probabilities are: a) spell's mana value is reduced below the baseline, and is unable to materialize and nothing happens; b) the spell's mamá value is reduced but since the spell was casted above its baseline then it may be casted, albeit with reduced effects; and c) spell's mana value is reduced, but the wizard uses more mana than the necessary to compensate the lost, and that way guarantee the spell materialize or keep its desired potency.

At the end, Stradh will be spending more magical energy than the necessary, reducing the overall amount of his available spells; that without mentioning he would need to spent more time gathering magic (given this is Vancian magic and the spells are already prepared, this is unlikely to happen). Take as the wizard needs to sacrifice spell slot to be able to cast at the desired potency, or to cast at all.

 

[Tllmbrg]

But in Anima psychic and mental resistance are different, the willpower of someone is independent of whoever can use magic or not, and neither does affect its resistance to magic; spells like mind reading are both mental and magical for instance, and when resisting the character may use the higher of the resistances. So the Etrien will keep using its supernatural resistance.

Okay cool I fail to see why Strahd can’t reduce both
Will saves are both to resist magic of various types and in particular mind manipulation
So Mind Fog should reduce both, since D&D treats both things as Will save

Unless Stradh possesses an infinite amount of magical supply, or regenerates magic at an incredible fast rate, Stradh's limitless stamina wouldn't help. Void aura decreases the zeonic (or mana) value of spells, so the probabilities are: a) spell's mana value is reduced below the baseline, and is unable to materialize and nothing happens; b) the spell's mamá value is reduced but since the spell was casted above its baseline then it may be casted, albeit with reduced effects; and c) spell's mana value is reduced, but the wizard uses more mana than the necessary to compensate the lost, and that way guarantee the spell materialize or keep its desired potency.

At the end, Stradh will be spending more magical energy than the necessary, reducing the overall amount of his available spells; that without mentioning he would need to spent more time gathering magic (given this is Vancian magic and the spells are already prepared, this is unlikely to happen). Take as the wizard needs to sacrifice spell slot to be able to cast at the desired potency, or to cast at all.

Cool he has infinite stamina in general due to undead and spell slots are a game mechanic in terms of the amount of times you can use them so he just spam at higher levels of casting

Where does that resistance comes from a SR or any resistance to magic? In that case it may not apply here as void aura is not magic nor spell-like.

It comes from the spell’s description?
Like it’s an ability that tries to dispel magic, I don’t think it being a spell or not matters
Point is that Strahd can still cast his abilities most of the times in the face of peak strength casters trying to null it

 

[Antoniofer]

Okay cool I fail to see why Strahd can’t reduce both
Will saves are both to resist magic of various types and in particular mind manipulation
So Mind Fog should reduce both, since D&D treats both things as Will save

Because the says it decreases the wisdom or will powers, not it resistence to magic or supernatural powers. In DnD characters may base their magic resistance mainly based in willpower, but not in Anima. Decreasing the willpower of the creature will not affect its resistances to magic.

Cool he has infinite stamina in general due to undead and spell slots are a game mechanic in terms of the amount of times you can use them so he just spam at higher levels of casting

This does not fix the problem of the magic losing its strength and potentially disappearing in mid air (maintained spells do not disappear, although they get reduced their effects or stop working as long the aura still active). Given Stradh, as any wizard, needs to prepare his spells before hand, if he find out he is unable to cast most spells, he can't simply rearrange his spells, that requires time that he does not possesses here. In case you suggest preparing spells is game mechanics, is quite not, that flaw is the reason that Entreri say assassinating wizards is relatively easy.

Void aura will work regardless of the spell's level, and wizard's power or intelligence, or if its high or divine magic (divine in this context is not the same in DnD's context); to swing through the magic annulation one would need to invest more magic than the necessary.

But for the purposes of the match, we can assume the spells work. In such case, what effective spell does Stradh possesses for this situation?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Because the says it decreases the wisdom or will powers, not it resistence to magic or supernatural powers. In DnD characters may base their magic resistance mainly based in willpower, but not in Anima. Decreasing the willpower of the creature will not affect its resistances to magic.

It doesn’t decrease your wisdom score (What dedicates your will save) bit instead directly targets the save itself so it makes your attempt to resist it worse

This does not fix the problem of the magic losing its strength and potentially disappearing in mid air (maintained spells do not disappear, although they get reduced their effects or stop working as long the aura still active). Given Stradh, as any wizard, needs to prepare his spells before hand, if he find out he is unable to cast most spells, he can't simply rearrange his spells, that requires time that he does not possesses here. In case you suggest preparing spells is game mechanics, is quite not, that flaw is the reason that Entreri say assassinating wizards is relatively easy.

Void aura will work regardless of the spell's level, and wizard's power or intelligence, or if its high or divine magic (divine in this context is not the same in DnD's context); to swing through the magic annulation one would need to invest more magic than the necessary.

????
My point was that he can just upcast all his spells aka dump more energy into them, for the purpose of a vs match we just assume he has everything prepared spell wise unless the match decides to give him a different spell list
So nothing just prevents him from putting more energy into his spells or waste more “spell slots” (Which ig can be viewed in abstract as magical stamina) in order to make the spell happen
The way thus far you presented the ability more so seem like an annoyance rather then straight up preventing Strahd using spells since he has infinite stamina

 

[Antoniofer]

My point was that he can just upcast all his spells aka dump more energy into them, for the purpose of a vs match we just assume he has everything prepared spell wise unless the match decides to give him a different spell list
So nothing just prevents him from putting more energy into his spells or waste more “spell slots” (Which ig can be viewed in abstract as magical stamina) in order to make the spell happen
The way thus far you presented the ability more so seem like an annoyance rather then straight up preventing Strahd using spells since he has infinite stamina

Indeed, one can put more magical energy into it so it can cast the spell at the desired degree, but doing that means that the wizard will be unable to cast overall less amount of spells, as its using the mana from the others; Stardh being an undead with limitless stamina is a nonfactor, magic supply is independent from one own stamina.

It doesn’t decrease your wisdom score (What dedicates your will save) bit instead directly targets the save itself so it makes your attempt to resist it worse

Not much of a difference, the Will attribute of the Etrien, or its "Will Save" (PsR) is independent of whenever he is capable of resisting magic/supernatural phenomena or not. And even tho, for make the resistance worse, it still needs to pass through the standard resistance.