Battle for the Strongest Low 2-C: Chaos Vs Lavos

[DodoNova2]

Soooooooo I summarize:

• Lavos can not kill chaos, but absorb it:
• Lavos has a better range but not really useful since it can not kill chaos
• Lavos is above Chaos un low 2-C line
• Chaos can kill Lavos but the Lavos acausality makes this complicate (and range), it can also return the Lavos Avatars against Lavos himself

There is also the question of the abstract nature that is pending Concerning the hax, Chaos has nevertheless more offensive hax that work than Lavos

• inteligence:....
• Stamina: Both are roughly equivalent

This is complicated...

 

[FateAlbane]

• Deep breathes.
• My god, if bias towards a character could kill.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Now now Fate...play nice and respectful. No snarkyness.

 

[FateAlbane]

You made me use the word, I'll use it. Time to kill this wank. Lemme go over the profiles, ability per ability.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Now now Fate...play nice and respectful. No snarkyness.

 

[FateAlbane]

Superhuman Physical Characteristics >>> Moot and outclassed for being lower on the scale of Low 2-C. DD is anywhere between absurdly higher than baseline and 2-A, while also growing stronger each moment and draining Chaos PASSIVELY since she uses magic. So it trumps her on this.

Can use the powers of all its incarnations >>> All of this I covered in the above posta. Way lower in scale than Low 2-C in scale unless it has shown feats otherwise.

Flight >>> Moot

Is as Big as the Center of the Galaxy >>> See this? As big as a Galaxy. As a Galaxy. That's literally infinities of times smaller than the range of stuff Lavos can affect. Again, she's as big as the center of a Galaxy. Lavos can reach across infinite Timelines. With TImelines being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Universes. I guess Chaos wins by being the size of a Galaxy or has an advantage on this because being Galaxy sized really matters more than affecting an infinite Multiverse? Is she not outclassed?

Acausality >>> At best cancels out with Lavos own, except that she can't summon non-existent alternates from infinite timelines so she's massively outclassed on this as well.

Energy blasts >>>> Get absorbed and make the thing stronger.

Aura >>> Seems pretty moot.

Magic >>> Even worse, this means Chaos will be passively magic drained throughout the entire fight, adding even more to the powers of her opponent. Magic attacks will also heal the DD instead of damaging, adding more fuel to the fire. Since DD is higher in the Low 2-C scale than her, I can safely say this.

Non-Corporeal >>> Her opponent is Non-Corporeal by virtue of not even existing and can affect abstract constructs such as Dreams AND before you go "just signals through your brain" with that Downplay, Dreams Thoughts and Memories in Chrono Trigger are treated way more as concepts as THE PLANET also has Dream. SOULS have Dreams. They are stuff that manifests in reality. They exist across infinite timelines. So drop that downplay. Thanks.

Regenerationn (At least High; Can regenerate from an "infinitesimal" part of herself) >>> Useless level of regen in this match. The Mid-Godly we see later is also a possibly. Also regen doesn't mean you don't take damage. If I threw Cronus into battle against Chara, Cronus would have a hard time putting Chara down PERMANENTLY, but Cronus would absolutely DESTROY Chara over and over without much effort. This is exactly what happens to Chaos here before Lavos finally absorbs her.

Abstract Nature >>> This here is useful. It's probably Chaos' best power on this, as it gets cancelled out with Lavos' own Non-Existent non Corporeality and can't be copied.

Immortality (Types 1, 3 & 4) >>> Not on a level higher than Low 2-C, so yeah.

can create aspects of herself >>> Lavos can summon Alternates of himself and copy extensions of a being as extensions of itself to a degree. So yeah. Outclassed again.

Assimilatio >>> Low 2-C at best vs Absorption which caps at 2-A. How is she not outclassed again?

Illusion Creation >>> Cancels out with Lavos own.

Reality Warping >>> Cancels out with Lavos own.

Darkness Manipulation >>>Either gets absorbed or cancels out with Lavos own.

Chaos Manipulation >>> Good stuff, but not enough to make up for the gap in all the other hax and disadvantages Chaos is having.

Energy/Negative Energy Manipulation >>> Gets absorbed making her opponent stronger. Outclassed.

Space/Time Manipulation >>> Moot, Space/Time messing is Lavos main stuff since base and will keep growing in scale mid-battle, not to even mention the Range which is Multiversal across infinite timelines to Chaos affecting one.

Resistance to Light Manipulation, and Existence Erasure >>> Resistances get voided, even this is useless.

Transformation >> 'k, cool.

Can Reverse Spells With Henshin >>> This is a nice power, too bad reversing spells (assuming this is attack reflection) will just heal the DD.

Revitalisation >>> Doesn't even show the scale. Either way, DD has a ton of ways to heal itself, too.

Can Use Chaos Spawn Abilities >>>> Unless you want me to say Lavos wins by using the abilities of a Large Planet Level Lavos Spawn, I don't see how much this is helping.

Regenerationn (Possibly Mid-Godly, Sailor Cosmos did not succeed in killing her, Despite the Manipulation of the Cauldron which erases all the existence of a being) >>> Okay, real talk now. As far as I know, Cosmos Profile seems to say she absolutely MURDERSTOMPED Chaos as soon as she went serious and Chaos' change in profile was in regards to this in the first place, which said it was as much PIS/CIS as Emperor not outright Killing Horus in 40k. I'll link it straight from Moon's profile, in my next reply.

Matter Manipulation >>> Either gets cancelled out with Lavos own or becomes moot by virtue of it being non-existence. Can't do much with Matter against Nothingness.

Mind Manipulation >>> Cancels out with Lavos also having Mind Manip - at this point, again in higher scale. By the way I see no resistance to Memory Manipulation in its profile and Lavos' Memory manip only caps at 2-A as well. Chaos can get horribly Memory Haxxed like Homura did to Madoka.

Body Control >>>That's totally gonna help.

Status Effect Inducement >>> Not only this isn't elaborated upon, Lavos also can inflict literally every status effect in the verse it hails from, so cancel each other out at best.

Soul Manipulation >>> Cancels out with Lavos own.

Attack Manipulation >>> Reflecting stuff that is higher than her in the scale of Low 2-C is either not happening or not working forever since she'll also have to deal with Acausal alternates coming along. Unless you tell me she can reflect any kind of attack non stop from enemies superior to her which keep multiplying and outclassing her in a ton of stuff coming from range INFINITELY beyond what she can reach.

Essence Manipulation >>> I've seen in her profile that this in Sailor Moon Refers mostly to Body, Mind and Soul. And this both gets cancelled out with Lavos's own manipulation of Said things but is also bound to not work well when, you know, the thing has ALREADY been erased. There's nothing there.

Curse Manipulation >>> Fate, History and Destiny based. Useless against Lavos' Acausality and the fact he's as existent as a timeline erased from existence. How do you alter the story of that is beyond me.

Probability Manipulation (Can Alter the Destiny of Things) >>> Useless against Acausality.

Existence Erasure >>> Against a non-existent foe? That's gonna work. Yup. Definitely.

Resistance To Chaos Manipulation, Sleep Manipulation, Space Time BFR, Essence Manipulation >>> Resistance voiding says hi.

Minor Conceptual Manipulation >>> Not elaborated upon so as much as Conceptual Manipulation in itself is a broken power, saying "Chaos wins via minor Conceptual Manipulation" holds as much ground as me saying "X wins via Reality Warping" in a tier 2 match.

Purification >>> Not sure how this helps either when they needed a 2-A, possibly High 2-A artifact to do something very similar to purifying and reality warping Lavos away. Granted, it was the TD at this point but even if we do some weird backwards scaling, he would still be higher than Chaos in the Low 2-C scale either way so yeah.

 

[PaChi2]

Im voting whatever Fate voted.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Oh, Fate. Did you know that if Serge lost, he was supposed to get absorbed by Lavos, along with the CC?

So yeah. Absorption is that good. Probably one of our best here, rivaling Zeed.

 

[FateAlbane]

AP >>> Universe Level+ (superior to her previous form).

Ok, that sounds nice and all but her previous form was warping to the far reaches of the Universe which kinda is around Baseline Low 2-C. You know. That level that is leagues below DD. Which adds even more to my points. Now someone used at some point the argument that she's equal to Sailor Cosmos which is extrapolating Chaos to massive degrees since as soon as Moon went serious, she obliterated Chaos with just the after-effects of her power while still being Low 2-C herself. Straight from Moon's profile, as I said in the previous reply:

Destroyed Chaos, reducing it to being "infinitesimally small" within the Galaxy Cauldro, merely as an after effect of releasing the Lambda Power. Restored and can maintain the entire space-time continuum)

/\ This. AN AFTER EFFECT of Releasing her power obliterated Chaos. Let me point this again. Moon, as a Low 2-C still, obliterated Chaos with an after effect of her power. It wasn't even the full power or anything. That's like me swinging a blade and the wind killing you, more or less.

Speed >>> Massively FTL+. I'm well aware this is equalized, but... Oh wow. Where are people getting that exists everywhere from, now? Since she's Galaxy sized, at best she exists across a Galaxy, which frankly is utterly moot compared to a being which can come from any infinite number of timelines and from Non-Existence. But as you insist on saying, maybe a Galaxy is better and more important than an Infinite Multiverse.

Durability >>> Not even Cosmos could kill her... Except that, again, a mere after-effect of her power utterly obliterated Chaos. Sure it didn't kill her permanently but it tore her apart so badly she most likely isn't doing anything significant anytime soon.

Also Chaos whole reality warping is stated time and again to reach an entire continuum. She gets absorbed along with the entire timeline by a far superior opponent, now what?

What is she doing? If this wasn't enough proof that this whole "Chaos wins and is not outclassed, Lavos can't do anything to her save Absorption" isn't massive NLF and Bias, color me surprised.

 

[FateAlbane]

Oh, Fate. Did you know that if Serge lost, he was supposed to get absorbed by Lavos, along with the CC?
So yeah. Absorption is that good. Probably one of our best here, rivaling Zeed.

More like I forgot. lol But yeah. Definitely one of the most broken Absorptions we have out here.

 

[FateAlbane]

Finally >>> Range. UNIVERSAL+ vs MULTIVERSAL+. She is literally infinitely outclassed on this one. For the last unholy time in the name of the Emprah protects us, her range refers to how far her attacks can reach. And before you give me "B-but she can move through/cross Universes!", that's basically what people with sufficiently good portals do. For example, time Travelers don't get Universal+ range because they can move through different points of a timeline. By this reasoning I guess I can give the whole CT cast Universal+ range.

And before you tell me "I just told you she can!", her profile states she is Universal+ so unless you get us a CRT through on that one, drop this point.

Actually drop everything since you made me do the courtesy of covering Chaos' whole profile to kill this massive NLF she's getting here.

 

[DodoNova2]

Wow, I do not know if I will read everything but this seems a good argument OvO

 

[FateAlbane]

The mere fact that someone is telling me Deaging a Being with type 1 immortality and who does not exist on top of being entirely out and disconnected from Space and Time will work is clear enough indication of the NLF.

Anyways, votes.

Lavos: 4 (FateAlbane, Dragonmasterxyz, The real Cal howard, Pachi2)

Chaos:

Inconclusive:

Didn't count Fan's vote yet because he voted for round 1 and 2 is the decisive one. Didn't count Ultima because it was meme.

 

[DodoNova2]

Okay, i Édit OP

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think that Lavos can win due to FateAlbane's reasons, primarily. It seems much more haxed and capable of taking down his opponent than Chaos.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I feel like Lavos wins FRA

 

[ALRF]

Lavos for FateAlbane reasons.

No seriously, everything i would want to bring has already been done by Fate.

Also, that deaging against Lavos? nah not working at all

 

[DodoNova2]

Okay, i re-edit OP

 

[FateAlbane]

Aaaand that's seven for Lavos, thank and praise be to God. We're done.

Lavos: 7 (FateAlbane, Dragonmasterxyz, The real Cal howard, Pachi2, Matthew Schroeder, TISSG7Redgrave, ALRF)

Chaos:

Inconclusive:

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And now for Chaos vs Lilithmon. Ovo

 

[FateAlbane]

Also reasons for Chaos are all debunked so that vote is not counting.

This is unanimous and should be added.

 

[DodoNova2]

And now for Chaos vs Lilithmon. Ovo

I agree OvO

 

[DodoNova2]

Fate is happy OvO

 

[FateAlbane]

No. I'm more tired than anything at this point. Just waiting and hoping either Cal or Dragon will have a shard of mercy to spare on my soul, do me a favor, add and close this hell already.