Battle for the 4# Stongest 9-B

[Elizhaa]

Conceptual Manipulation Type 2, from what I recall, only bypassed NEP Type 1. NEP type 2 needs actual feats of interaction given how it works, and the fact it has nothing to do with Higher-Dimensions

I am talking on respect to the staff thread most standards where decided. As a recall, if something is not accepted in a CRT or staff thread, most time it is not valid.

 

[Schnee_One]

I'm not even going to touch the non existence stuff, but I'm going to say Omniscience doesn't do shit.

First of all Omniscience in matches ONLY applies in universe, you don't automatically know what your opponent is or what to do to win immeditely because you know everything that happens in your universe, matches are kinda outside of your own universe by default.

Second, John can instantly identify the weakness or what makes a character he is fighting, and immediately use what it takes to win, he also fought a clone of himself from another timeline and they couldn't do it to each other.

Shiki has no idea what will work on John

Speaking of Shiki, why are we using a completely featless character who has literally never fought?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Speaking of Shiki, why are we using a completely featless character who has literally never fought?

This honestly. I also don't know why we assume she will use literally every passive in her verse against a single man.

 

[Youtd]

I'm not even going to touch the non existence stuff, but I'm going to say Omniscience doesn't do shit.

First of all Omniscience in matches ONLY applies in universe, you don't automatically know what your opponent is or what to do to win immeditely because you know everything that happens in your universe, matches are kinda outside of your own universe by default.

Second, John can instantly identify the weakness or what makes a character he is fighting, and immediately use what it takes to win, he also fought a clone of himself from another timeline and they couldn't do it to each other.

Shiki has no idea what will work on John

Speaking of Shiki, why are we using a completely featless character who has literally never fought?

also maybe you can check this out (https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-question-about-omniscience.111413/#post-3527856)

 

[Regidian]

I'm not even going to touch the non existence stuff, but I'm going to say Omniscience doesn't do shit.

First of all Omniscience in matches ONLY applies in universe, you don't automatically know what your opponent is or what to do to win immeditely because you know everything that happens in your universe, matches are kinda outside of your own universe by default.

Second, John can instantly identify the weakness or what makes a character he is fighting, and immediately use what it takes to win, he also fought a clone of himself from another timeline and they couldn't do it to each other.

Shiki has no idea what will work on John

Speaking of Shiki, why are we using a completely featless character who has literally never fought?

Even without the omniscience she still have analysis information and all the preco thing

So he resist is own abilities of his third eyes ability?

You need ti have fight for be able to do a vs? And even with that have still what saber shiki who is somewhat her illusion that have fight

 

[Schnee_One]

I'd provide an argument for John, but I'm still in the earlier chapters. I'll just wait for King or Schnee to provide their arguments.

BTW Fair warning, I am NOT that knowledgeable on Nightside, in fact I have never read a book.

My knowledge comes from King and frequent discussions about it with him.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Even without the omniscience she still have analysis information and all the preco thing

So he resist is own abilities of his third eyes ability?

You need ti have fight for be able to do a vs? And even with that have still what saber shiki who is somewhat her illusion that have fight

I mean, if the character has never been in a fight, and is basically featless and doesn't have an in-character move, I don't see why we should use them.

 

[Regidian]

This honestly. I also don't know why we assume she will use literally every passive in her verse against a single man.

I don't have tell she will use every passive against him, in first i have tell she will use what she have see necessary for beat him but if she can't use her Omniscience in battle and that he will resist his own third eyes that have better potency than her analyse info then well

 

[Regidian]

I mean, if the character has never been in a fight, and is basically featless and doesn't have an in-character move, I don't see why we should use them.

If an avatar/illusion of himself have do it it's enough can be good no?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

This honestly. I also don't know why we assume she will use literally every passive in her verse against a single man.

Moreover, I want to know what evidence she has for having 'literally every passive in her verse' if she's never even fought before.

I also want an actual quote, scan, etc. that properly describes her NEP2, since it's not sourced on her profile and the justification for it comes off as nonsensical jargon to a person who knows as little about Nasu as I do.

In return, I can source anything on John's page that comes into question, because I have relevant quotes from every book in his series.

 

[Schnee_One]

Even without the omniscience she still have analysis information and all the preco thing

So he resist is own abilities of his third eyes ability?

You need ti have fight for be able to do a vs? And even with that have still what saber shiki who is somewhat her illusion that have fight

Resisted, like I mentioned earlier

Yes, and more.

Of course you do, you have to show evidence of characters doing what you describe, if not then it doesn't work,

As for Saber Shiki, if we are literally only coming off of that, John Curbstomps

 

[Youtd]

Proably should get more nasuverse experts here or make another thread. Also, I don't want to dogpile Regidian with all these questions

 

[Regidian]

Moreover, I want to know what evidence she has for having 'literally every passive in her verse' if she's never even fought before.

I also want an actual quote, scan, etc. that properly describes her NEP2, since it's not sourced on her profile and the justification for it comes off as nonsensical jargon to a person who knows as little about Nasu as I do.

In return, I can source anything on John's page that comes into question, because I have relevant quotes from every book in his series.

Okay wait i will go do it

Resisted, like I mentioned earlier

Yes, and more.

Of course you do, you have to show evidence of characters doing what you describe, if not then it doesn't work,

As for Saber Shiki, if we are literally only coming off of that, John Curbstomps

I talk about if we can use her in-character not use saber shiki herself

 

[Schnee_One]

<I talk about if we can use her in-character not use saber shiki herself

But this Shiki has never fought, she has no character here

 

[Youtd]

Okay wait i will go do it



I talk about if we can use her in-character not use saber shiki herself

also I dont think Void shiki and saber shiki act the same. were using her as a basis because we don't know how void Shiki acts or anything about the root

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Doesn;t she do something in the movie? Im not a big KnK fan so im not well versed on it.

 

[Regidian]

Doesn;t she do something in the movie? Im not a big KnK fan so im not well versed on it.

She just appear in the body of shiki to talk, so well she not fight

also I dont think Void shiki and saber shiki act the same. were using her as a basis because we don't know how void Shiki acts or anything about the root

Saber shiki is actually just an illusion of void shiki acting as a servant don't see why their will not act the same.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Character Image in “FateGO”
The woman whom we’ve gotten a glimpse of during the irregular singularity, the Boundary.

She wears a bright clear kimono with graceful gesture, showing discernment, but full of affection. This defines her routine even in abnormal situations.

Due to the uncertainty of her own existence, she wishes to remain uninvolved in strange cases, even when she knows the details about them.

A distinguished individual one would not normally meet. But— in the opposite case, it would be on a snowy day, while everyone is asleep.

She’s the same person as Shiki Ryougi, the girl who wears a jacket over her kimono. However, their personalities are different.

If Shiki Ryougi is the girl known as 「Shiki」, then this person is the woman known as「Shiki Ryougi」

The personality of the body itself, embodying 「 」 that represents the beginning.

She slumbers within Shiki from her birth to her death.

Shiki can’t perceive 「Shiki Ryougi」, and 「Shiki Ryougi」 will never take Shiki’s place.

No idea if this proves anything or helps. My goal here was to show the possibility of Void Shiki is Saber Shiki but.... im Not too knowledgable on Knk https://chaldea.tmdict.com/servant/ryougi-shiki-saber#en

 

[Regidian]

Already that and if need can have other


"Beyond and below lay only darkness. This void, lifeless place could only mean one thing: I was dead.

Without anything to even clothe me, I, Shiki Ryōgi, floated, and then
sank slowly into the fathomless, lightless sea. There was no end in sight.
There was nothing in sight, neither light, and yes, perhaps even darkness.
This place was only a hollow, where all meaning ceased to be. A stygian
abyss that could not be put into words, and without words it shall remain:
a cypher called, simply, “ ”. " - Kara no kyoukai Vol 2- page 6

[ ] Don't have origin who is the thing that enable the meaning of an existance

"Origin [Others]
The direction of everything that arose from fundamental cause. The α that enabled the existence of α, the absolute order that existed at the very core" - Kara no Kyoukai Special Pamphlet - Encyclopedia: Origin [Others], p.029-030


「　」
If you really wished to pronounce this term, call it 「Kara」.
Its meaning varied depending on each individual’s understanding. To put it in simple terms, it was the Spiral of Origin.
However, since the Spiral of Origin was called the Spiral of Origin, it was no longer 「　」- Kara no Kyoukai Special Pamphlet - Encyclopedia: 「　」 [Others], p.028-029


Although, because the Swirl of the Root is a name, it automatically can't be said to be the same anymore, since 「　」 is a space of nothingness that can't even have a name.

"法に曰く、真空とは自在の境地。
二元対立の分別はなく、
世の理、世の在り方をありのままに観ずる心。

空は遠く、色彩は淡く。
貴影は何処ともつかぬ境界に立ち、
星の行方を眺めている"

"As stated by law, emptiness is a territory of freedom.
Free from binary opposition, it is the heart that contemplates the world both as it should be and as it is." -

- And [ ] who is "void shiki" (if you ask void shiki is a fanmade name she don't have really name in first)

And well she is a more fundamental emptiness than a character from the same verse who is too NEP2(kama)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Eh there is other quotes on it too. There is a lot actually on it lol

 

[Regidian]

For the passive it's because she is the source/origin of every supernatural phenomen of the verse and the archiver of everything and that we know that she can manipulated everything that archived, but like i have tell in the first comment i thing, passives are not turned on when she use the body of shiki ryougi.
( magecraft/origin/esp/themathurgie etc)

Aoko: Huh, I didn't say? To get revenge on me and to touch the Root. You remember that talk about the Whirl of the Root, don't you?
Soujuurou: ....Was that the source of magecraft?
Aoko: Yes, and also our final objective. The Whirl of the Root is position where all knowledge is recorded, and all things are determined. If you can look, touch, understand it, even the word "impossible" can be remade." - Mahou Tsukai no Yoru - General True Magic and Root Information


"Mystery is a sliver of power of many different types that comes from the Root.
It is the source of all supernatural phenomena such as Magecraft or ESP. "

And like tell [ ] have archived everything in the verse from their existence, soul, ability, power etc we know that going in the root allow to manipulated everything that is stored/archived etc and well she is the root.

 

[Regidian]

For the in-character well she have not really have to fight (since she the supreme being of the verse and litteraly no one can affect her) but since she had saber shiki who is like an illusion of herself. And we know she have some what a way if thinking and since people tell SBA is willing to kill even if they don't give it much habitually, i thought it was enough

 

[Regidian]

Eh there is other quotes on it too. There is a lot actually on it lol

Have many other too since each time we mention it, they talk about it.