Battle for Dream Island: With Hiatus Brings Infinity (Literally)

[Psychomaster35]

Originally planned another CRT to be my first one of 2023, but this one came up to my interest recently and I'm surprised nobody brought up to the point where I may as well end last year with BFDI and start this year BFDI. I know I said that Object Physiology CRT would’ve been the last CRT I would make for this series, but I promise this will be the true last CRT of this series I will make until TPOT 3 or another canon episode comes out. Anyways, if the title wasn't obvious, let me say it: BFDI is infinitely strong.

Clock's Hands

In the Official Character Guide description for Clock, Clock's hands become infinitely powerful when he lets them move naturally, which has shown to be proven useful on a few occasions. Plus, he's even able to withstand the force of his own hands interacting with something while letting them move naturally, meaning this outright scales to his durability. Should be noted that Bell could destroy one of X's baskets in 3 hits which should scale to the one from the first episode which is made of the same material which was able to withstand the force of Clock's hands flinging it while he was moving them naturally.

Announcer Erasing All Of BFDI Due To Budget Cuts

In BFB 29, it was shown that the potency of Announcer’s Budget Cuts was enough to cause the show to slowly downgrade itself in animation quality until it is no more. Since he was essentially going to erase the entire show as a whole, this meant that the entire universe, which has been stated to be infinite by Cary, would get erased.

Possible Refutes

"Clock's hands being stated to be infinitely powerful is a hyperbole/exaggeration!"

• The whole point of me bringing up Announcer’s Budget Cuts was to prove that it is consistent and make it less of a hyperbole/exaggeration and more of the truth.

"Budget Cuts are done out of hax, not physical AP!"

• It may be true that this is a hax feat, however, it is perfectly allowed to be used as a supporting feat just as long as the person's physical power is comparable to others, which Announcer is.

"The characters have died to lesser feats!"

• If you haven't read that note on the verse page (I should probably request for a franchise-specific rule addition of this), deaths in BFDI are a constant running gag for viewer entertainment which isn't taken seriously for most of the time. Not to mention, many of those deaths to lesser feats have been caused by contestants harming/killing each other. That being said, there aren’t really many anti-feats considering the many consistent tier 5 and 4 feats they have.

Conclusion

Everyone gets upgraded to High 3-A scaling from Clock's hands moving naturally, with Announcer’s Budget Cuts simply being used as a supporting feat to back this up.

I will admit: If this CRT gets accepted, I’ll miss doing matches with them considering how small High 3-A is

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me

 

[Dereck03]

Sure, this seems fine.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[Da3ggman]

Based Announcer upgrade. Anyway, I agree.

 

[Damage3245]

Seems to be okay, albeit I'm not familiar with the verse.

 

[Da3ggman]

I will admit: If this CRT gets accepted, I’ll miss doing matches with them considering how small High 3-A is

Well...

 

[Psychomaster35]

Well...

Literally the strongest High 3-A non-smurf smh

 

[Psychomaster35]

Anyways, now that 3 staff have accepted this, this can now be applied. Though, I will not be intending on applying this until this CRT gets completed.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

.... Look, I'm no staff but still feel Very losely held together the infinity thing, let's talk more about the budget cuts

The entire universe was going to be erased thanks to budget cut! But... What that means? That meant that the characters didn't had the money to keep the universe "running" so whem Flowey paid for the budget with her money. She estabilized the universe

Let's think, Announcer didn't used budget cuts, after all, budget cuts would be selling things to make up for lost of money, but the universe eraser was the oposite, Announcer used so much money from the budget that the universe:

1- Had to be selled to make up for It.

2- Could'n be sustained thanks to the lack of money

Considering how instantenious budget cuts are, I wouldego for the second one.

So what we have?

2 loose infnity feats, one being possible a large hiporble and tge second hax or even just side effects of something else

What I mean is, thouse feats even together are too nich or unreliable to scale for the rest of the verse

Trough I'm not 3 staffs... So i mostly likle have little impact

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I've coincidentally jokingly thought of something exactly like this before, like "I know Psychomaster35 has been doing extremely bizarre revisions to BFDI lately, but surely he wouldn't go this far", yet here we are. At least this revision is technically more accurate than multi-solar system level, but it's still incorrect.

There is a reason people make the argument that "budget cuts are done out of hax, not physical AP"; you can't scale a character's physique to non-physical attacks just because you think it would be awesome. Physical and non-physical capabilities simply have nothing to do with each other by nature, unless there is further context connecting them, which there is not. It's a lie to claim that "[hax] is perfectly allowed to be used as a supporting feat just as long as the person's physical power is comparable to others". Show me where the VS Battles Wiki states that this is acceptable.

With the previous paragraph in mind, you have no possible way of proving that Clock's hands ticking naturally being infinitely powerful is meant in the sense that they can produce infinite energy rather than in the sense that they are immensely powerful. The statement and feats that Clock has done when letting his hands move naturally have been portrayed as impressive, as in that he needs to let his hands tick naturally for him to be this impressive, therefore the base forms of all the characters being powerscaled to this is a contradiction. At the absolute best, this upgrade would only scale to Clock's hands, like how the durability of Bubble's limbs are the only parts of her that are comparable to other characters.

 

[Psychomaster35]

.... Look, I'm no staff but still feel Very losely held together the infinity thing, let's talk more about the budget cuts

The entire universe was going to be erased thanks to budget cut! But... What that means? That meant that the characters didn't had the money to keep the universe "running" so whem Flowey paid for the budget with her money. She estabilized the universe

Let's think, Announcer didn't used budget cuts, after all, budget cuts would be selling things to make up for lost of money, but the universe eraser was the oposite, Announcer used so much money from the budget that the universe:

1- Had to be selled to make up for It.

2- Could'n be sustained thanks to the lack of money

Considering how instantenious budget cuts are, I wouldego for the second one.

So what we have?

2 loose infnity feats, one being possible a large hiporble and tge second hax or even just side effects of something else

What I mean is, thouse feats even together are too nich or unreliable to scale for the rest of the verse

Trough I'm not 3 staffs... So i mostly likle have little impact

Jeez, fix that grammar. I can hardly read it.

Anyways, Announcer was clearly able to erase Pin’s win token and even Black Hole with his budget cuts during Season 1, showing that they can be done even without the computer. The whole point of him using the computer was to show that budget cuts can reach the entire show as a whole, AKA on a high universal range scale, which he would’ve been able to erase. This was literally justified on his profile. Him somehow going through a long and complicated process to delete the show is considered Plot-Induced Stupidity when he’s been shown to do it much quicker by himself.

There is a reason people make the argument that "budget cuts are done out of hax, not physical AP"; you can't scale a character's physique to non-physical attacks just because you think it would be awesome. Physical and non-physical capabilities simply have nothing to do with each other by nature, unless there is further context connecting them, which there is not. It's a lie to claim that "[hax] is perfectly allowed to be used as a supporting feat just as long as the person's physical power is comparable to others". Show me where the VS Battles Wiki states that this is acceptable.

This. Not to mention, I’ve seen profiles like the Wither Storm have the justification of turning the entire sky dark even though that is hax. Therefore, it is perfectly allowed to use hax as supporting feats just as long as their physical power can be comparable to their potency.

In your last paragraph, you say that this would only scale to Clock’s hands at best. But I still showed that contestants do scale to his hands in the form of Bell being able to destroy one of X’s baskets in which one of them could survive being hit by Clock’s naturally-moving hands.

That being said, I predicted that would be exactly what you would say if you commented here, James. Even if I have debunked that but you still think that it’s somehow not consistent, would you strive for a “possibly” instead? That’s happened with some High 3-A justifications I’ve seen.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

This. Not to mention, I’ve seen profiles like the Wither Storm have the justification of turning the entire sky dark even though that is hax. Therefore, it is perfectly allowed to use hax as supporting feats just as long as their physical power can be comparable to their potency.

That's a Q&A thread with only two short replies, not an official page.

Even if you were correct in this regard, the idea of the Announcer's hax supporting Clock having tier 3 infinite power asserts the idea that Clock does legitimately have tier 3 infinite power, which you have no way of properly proving as explained in the paragraph of mine after the one you quoted. Supporting evidence and primary evidence are not the same.

 

[Psychomaster35]

The whole point of bringing High 3-A Clock up is that this was from an official character guide, not some character or a machine in-series describing this which would make this even more inaccurate if they aren’t reliable sources. There doesn’t seem to be any anti-feats to prove that Clock’s hands aren’t infinite power like his OCG description says. They were really only relevant in the first 3 episodes of BFB before they just stopped bringing it up for some reason.

Support and evidence are not the same.

Supporting evidence? Yes, it’s true that one is a statement that is either shaky at best or even just hax in general. But it’s still able to be used as evidence to bring more truth to a tier justification.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

The whole point of bringing High 3-A Clock up is that this was from an official character guide, not some character or a machine in-series describing this which would make this even more inaccurate if they aren’t reliable sources. There doesn’t seem to be any anti-feats to prove that Clock’s hands aren’t infinite power like his OCG description says. They were really only relevant in the first 3 episodes of BFB before they just stopped bringing it up for some reason.

Real life humans commonly don't use the phrase "infinite power" in the literal sense either. I already know that the statement didn't come from a character nor a machine in-series. I certainly had that in mind when posting my message.

I wasn't arguing that there are anti-feats.

Supporting evidence? Yes, it’s true that one is a statement that is either shaky at best or even just hax in general. But it’s still able to be used as evidence to bring more truth to a tier justification.

Not according to the logic I presented to you, which explained why the burden of proof is still on you to give a valid explanation to how the Announcer using thought-based abilities to the decrease the show's quality has anything to do with the power of Clock's physical hits, let alone supporting the idea that Clock's hands ticking naturally are regarded as "infinitely powerful" in the particular sense that you interpret it as. Budget cuts have never been described as infinitely powerful and they have never been portrayed as in the same league as the contestants at all. Budget cuts being universal doesn't actually support anything related to this thread's proposal. All it does is show that there has in fact been a point in time in BFDI where the concept of an influence that is beyond finite power exists, meaning it's not out of the scope of this series to have such an influence. This doesn't change the fact that the influence has nothing to do with the physical power of any character.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Budget cuts have never been described as infinitely powerful and they have never been portrayed as in the same league as the contestants at all.

Did you forget Cary’s statement of calling the universe infinite? Announcer’s budget cuts have been heavily implied to erase everything which would’ve been able to destroy the show’s universe, both by himself and Purple Face. And the reason the contestants were only threatened by this is because this would’ve killed them through hax, not physical AP.

And once again, bringing up something as supporting evidence perfectly works to justify someone’s tiering justification even if it’s hax in order to make some statements sound less hyperbolic. It shows that there is a reason that these feats should justify this tiering.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Did you forget Cary’s statement of calling the universe infinite? Announcer’s budget cuts have been heavily implied to erase everything which would’ve been able to destroy the show’s universe, both by himself and Purple Face. And the reason the contestants were only threatened by this is because this is hax, not their physical durability.

I didn't forget that; I was referring to direct statements specifically for the sake of powerscaling. Announcer's budget cuts are probably beyond (three-dimensionally) infinitely powerful to the standards of the VS Battles Wiki. By the way, since the Announcer could've used budget cuts for universal destruction, he could get a tier upgrade via hax, instead of the universal influence just being listed in his Range section. I recommend that you make that upgrade the topic of your next content revision thread, and revoke this one. Back on track; what has not been stated of budget cuts, is them being infinitely powerful to the standards of BFDI. Clock's hands moving naturally has been stated to be infinitely powerful, which should be assumed to be a hyperbole at first, and if budget cuts don't also have a hyperbolical statement like that, then we have no reason to scale Clock's hands to the budget cuts, since Clock's hands are physical, budget cuts are non-physical, and the two forces have never interacted nor been mentioned in relation to each other. It's not as though Cary outright said that budget cuts are infinitely powerful, he was talking about the universe's size, so he was speaking using literal terms, and speaking about a different topic than metafictional reality warping. He needed to have been directly speaking about budget cuts for it to be possible for Clock's hands to be powerscaled to budget cuts.

Basically, your argument is that "Clock's hands moving naturally is stated to be infinitely powerful, and the Announcer's budget cuts that are legitimately infinitely powerful also exist in BFDI, therefore Clock's hands are infinitely powerful in that same legitimate non-hyperbolical way", even though that's making a connection between two facts baselessly, aside from personal whim.

And once again, bringing up something as supporting evidence perfectly works to justify someone’s tiering justification even if it’s hax. It shows that there is a reason that these feats should justify this tiering.

Argument from repetition fallacy. I already explained why the supposed supporting evidence isn't actually supporting evidence because of the primary evidence not being legitimate, and now you repeated yourself without elaborating on your point. I'll take this opportunity to elaborate on my points, I suppose.

I thought of an analogy, which might help you understand my point. Your idea is like, if someone claimed to me that they can lick their elbow, which is often regarded as impossible, so then I questioned the validity of their claim, and then the person told me that as supporting evidence, it's not actually impossible for a human to lick their elbow, as demonstrated by a video of someone else successfully licking their elbow. That didn't support anything in a way that proved that the person could lick their elbow. Due to the fact that the primary evidence was just an unproven claim, the supporting "evidence" only proved that it's not impossible for that person being capable of licking their elbow to be the a possibility. Licking one's elbow is an incredibly rare capability, so the person would need to prove that they have what it takes to do it, which they failed to do. Why couldn't they have simply demonstrated to me that they can lick their elbow? It's probably because they were lying about being capable of doing it.

In accordance to the logic of my previous paragraph, you should be showing me Clock physically destroying infinite space, Clock doing something that physically influences infinite mass, or a statement that unambiguously mentions that Clock's hands are capable of casting infinite energy with a single tick. You shouldn't be showing me an entirely different character using a non-physical ability that's superior to the whole cast, because regardless of how powerful it is, it proves absolutely nothing about the validity of Clock's hands being "infinitely powerful" when moving naturally.

Something a bit extra; it'd be valuable for me to mention examples of the VS Battles Wiki's standards in action that show how I'm correct. The Infinite Mass Punch of the Flash from DC isn't listed as tier 3, because it hasn't shown to legitimately have properties of something with infinite mass, according to a note. The titular character Kirby is stated to have infinite power, and he defeated an opponent powered by the Master Crown which is also stated to have unlimited power and which was going to be used to take over the universe, yet despite many educated guesses leading to the belief of universal destruction capabilities, the infinite power statements are never used as supporting evidence for any tiers. The choice of tiers function as though the statements don't exist, and the statements are only used for powerscaling. The statement about the power of Clock's hands moving naturally should be no different from these examples.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

That Q&A thread you showed me before got a new post, and that's how it works. To compare; the Announcer's budget cuts are like "a wish granting device", and Clock's hands moving naturally are like "a ki blast". The former is non-physical, and the latter is physical, so the former can't support the latter when the latter has never been directly stated to be comparable to the former, thus meaning you haven't proved that Clock's hands moving naturally being infinitely powerful is meant in a literal sense instead of a hyperbolical sense. It's currently impossible to prove that unless you directly ask a Huang twin, since the statement is just a random trivia fact that, in the few times that it was given attention to on the show, was only used to demonstrate superiority to the contestants, and none of them are tier 3.

Try upgrading the Announcer's tier with something like "High Universe level via budget cuts" or maybe even "Universe level+ via budget cuts", like I recommended earlier, and revoke this thread. This course of action will allow a BFDI character to get a massive tier upgrade in a sensible way that actually represents the series properly. Before making that thread though, please stay focused on the downgrade content revision thread that I made.