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Baseline 9-B Tournament Round 1 - Phillip vs Ra's al Ghul (0-0-0)

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2 or even 3 of Phillip's powers are basically one-hit-kill; yes, it may be unlikely for those to happen, but considering that the negative effects that Phillip may suffer from the bag wouldn't instantly kill him, and that he can also heal, that is a considerable advantage. I doubt that speech of coin flipping tricks would be effective against Ras, and he seems better at melee combat, with smoke bombs and stealth he may even stealth kill, but he may need to do it fast before Phillip span stat amp and radomized effects.
 
Alright so everything locked behind Mystery is purely chance-based and Mystery can only be used once, however despite being random in nature it usually benefits Phillip, at least from observing what it does in Space Funeral. So you can basically count it as a roughly 10% chance of Ra's instantly dying when it's used, a similar chance of healing or stat boosting, a similar chance of a negative effect and the rest is just nothing. So it is a pretty big advantage, but it's not a wincon on its own.

In terms of skill Phillip isn't crazy but he has defeated (with help from his teammate) an entire gang of brigands and thieves, and killed (by himself) a dragon that previously fought off a small group of knights and forced them to retreat. So he may be unassuming, but he's not THAT far behind Ra's.

He can also bridge the gap in skill via his stat amps and Empathic Manipulation (It's worth mentioning Coin Trick is effective against people of human-like intelligence and even wise and skilled wizards, so it's not out of the question it might affect Ra's despite the silly nature of the move), can inflict extra damage to Ra's via Bibles since Ra's is a criminal, can heal himself with Blood, poison Ra's in various ways (Admittedly it's probably some sort of throwing weapon so he still needs to land a hit) and has superior range.

Phillip is a fair bit above baseline since he fights baseline 9-B enemies at the very start of the game even as common enemies, and he both grows in power and gets better equipment throughout the game. From what I remember of TDK Ra's is mostly equal to Bats in strength.

I'll wait for a counterargument ofc but I do think Phillip takes this.
 
I actually think Phillip might have some minor enhanced senses, actually, since there's an area that's almost completely dark with several fights and even a boss fight. Not enough to nullify the effect of smoke bombs, obviously, but it is worth something.

EDIT: I checked, yes, it was inside a cavern, should count for minor enhanced senses.
 
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I mean

Ra's is haxless beyond belief and has the sole benefit of being skilled- neither of them have AP on profile so I will assume roughly close to baseline. So no benefit there, either.

Philip has death hax, even if it is only a 10% chance that is a 10% instant-win even outside of every other feature of the profile (of which there are many). Assuming the other Mystery things are all 10%, then his instant-win hax chance increases significantly- making an enemy pacifist really leaves them nothing to work with. I dunno what spooked is but that may also be an instant-down.

So Philip wins this. Ra's can't really do bugger all.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I mean

Ra's is haxless beyond belief and has the sole benefit of being skilled- neither of them have AP on profile so I will assume roughly close to baseline. So no benefit there, either.

Philip has death hax, even if it is only a 10% chance that is a 10% instant-win even outside of every other feature of the profile (of which there are many). Assuming the other Mystery things are all 10%, then his instant-win hax chance increases significantly- making an enemy pacifist really leaves them nothing to work with. I dunno what spooked is but that may also be an instant-down.
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Putting it all together I still think Mystery's gonna have a useful effect less than 30% of the time, and more than half of that 30% is just healing or buffing Phillip. Spooked is just lowered accuracy IIRC which would probably translate to a character being too scared to fight at 100% of their competency here. Again though most of Mystery's useless effects aren't listed in the page for the sake of brevity, but that's what it usually does- if you consider the fact that it's got a decent chance of harming Phillip or be used in a situation where its effects are not useful, it's gonna have a positive effect on the match like, 20/30% of the time, tops.
Mr._Bambu said:
So Philip wins this. Ra's can't really do bugger all.
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He can like, stab Phillip. That would work I think. I genuinely think this is fairly close, Phillip wouldn't necessarily lead with any of his strongest stuff and Ra's can kill him relatively easily before he pulls off some good stat amps.
 
"Philip may have a 30% chance to clusterfuck Ra's even before other things come into play but Ra's could just stab Philip"

don't worry I'm not trying to bar your character from getting a win, I'm aware Ra's can technically harm Philip. I just don't think in any sane universe does that occur before he dies or is rendered helpless for an extended period of time.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
"Philip may have a 30% chance to clusterfuck Ra's even before other things come into play but Ra's could just stab Philip"

don't worry I'm not trying to bar your character from getting a win, I'm aware Ra's can technically harm Philip. I just don't think in any sane universe does that occur before he dies or is rendered helpless for an extended period of time.
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I don't necessarily think Phillip would lead with Mystery though. Also there's a 10% chance Mystery ***** over Phillip instead so putting it together, it's just a win 20% of the time. Which I don't underestimate, don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty good, but it's not the main reason Phillip wins IMO.

Also I know you aren't, I just wanted everyone to know the specifics of it, I don't want people to think I submitted an overpowered character, and if the consensus is that I did even after all this I'll retire Phillip from the tournament, I wanna be fair here.
 
Armorchompy said:
Also I know you aren't, I just wanted everyone to know the specifics of it, I don't want people to think I submitted an overpowered character, and if the consensus is that I did even after all this I'll retire Phillip from the tournament, I wanna be fair here.
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(Seriously everyone, don't be afraid to speak up if you think this)
 
Space Funeral is funnily amongst the very few games I have ever finished. I usually procrastinate them to hell and back and end up never finishing games. Space Funeral was short enough for me to finish on one sitting.

So, anyway, yeah, Philip has a definite power advantage, in versatility and options. I find it hilarious that the extra damage against criminals actually applies here, and it is actually very true. I also see him as being superior in strength and durability, as he got stronger through the game. Ra's feels considerably more skilled, though, and he does have the smoke bombs, and being the Assassins' League's Master, he should be able to use it really well...

I'm a bit unsure. I don't know how Ra's fights. If he goes the sneakier route, he might pull off a rather likely win. But on a direct fight, no, I can't see him winning.
 
do you think phillip is too strong for the tournament, venom?
 
Armorchompy said:
do you think phillip is too strong for the tournament, venom?
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Hard to say. Ra's has relatively little material on the profile to compare well, and the fights here ought to be relatively close. It could be that this fight is unfair.

Personally, I'm fine with him, but if people think it is unfair, you should be able to change the character. I mean, he was there since the tournament's opening, and there was time for everyone to look at his profile and analyse. If it is deemed unfair now, out of fairness, you should be able to pick another character.
 
Well, Philip's probability hax and death hax seems interestingly op.

His range is dozen of meters so there's a chance for characters with higher range (on this tournament Strelok, Seras and etc.). Though if everyone more thinks his abilities are way more op then you can change (meaning all listen to @Tllmbrg for now).
 
Oleggator said:
Well, Philip's probability hax and death hax seems interestingly op.

His range is dozen of meters so there's a chance for characters with higher range (on this tournament Strelok, Seras and etc.).
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I mean ideally he should be able to have a fair match against everyone, not just people with range. Personally I think Mystery is fairly balanced since it only gives him a significant advantage about 20% of the time but I can see how people would disagree.
 
I'm neutral about removing Phillip, but at least in this round I see him win most of the time, but I wouldn't deem it an stomp.
 
Yeah, basically (at least from my interpretation obviously) about 30/40% of the time, Mystery does nothing noteworthy. The remaining 60/70% is split among:
  • Boosting or lowering Phillip's stats
  • Healing Phillip
  • Boosting or lowering the enemy's stats
  • Healing the enemy
  • Healing both the enemy and Phillip
  • Insta-killing the enemy
  • Give Phillip a new ability (this only happens against a specific enemy)
Admittedly it does help Phillip slightly more often than it hinders him, but it's not a huge gap. I don't think it's a particularly overpowered tool, personally, and I can totally see Phillip losing to some people submitted in this tournament (Though I'll still try and debate in his favor somewhat)
 
More than Mystery, I'd be worried about the Zorg Cannon, is it a gun of some sort, like listed in his weapon mastery? Because it would be pretty damn useful on an open field like that, as Ra's doesn't seem to have ways to dodge and it would be hard for him to get close while being shot from 20 meters, assuming Philip starts with it.

Other than that, Ra's seems to have the advantage on all the rest. Ra's has the battlefield advantage, as he knows the place and how to move on it, as well as take advantage of it by making the opponent slip, and Philip may naturally have problems staying balanced due to moving on ice.

In close combat Philip appears to be skilled, yes, but Ra's feats seem better, being Batman's trainer and almost equal to him at the end, and is also the leader of an entire organization of ninjas. His bladed gauntlets are specifically designed to block blades and disarm the opponent, and he is quite skilled with them, I can see him doing it to Philip, still accounting the latter's mobility problems. (all the Ra's' stuff I mentioned can be seen here). Ra's also has the LS advantage, an addition to him if he goes for disarming or similar close combat techniques.

I'm not sure how much useful would be Philip's buffs and heals, if he can pull them off while engaging in combat with such an opponent (I don't know if he cal heal slashes and stabbing) and in this environment, which could also dampen his aim and makes throwing stuff less useful.
Sob and Coin Trick are actually the most useful skills in this context.


But at the end of the day I'm more prone on voting Ra's, but I still need to see how the cannon works and how much in-characater is for Philip to use it.
 
We don't really know, it's not a very descriptive game. It's by far his strongest weapon, we know that, but honestly we don't even strictly know it's ranged, I just assumed it was since... I mean it's got cannon in the name. He's fairly likely to use it though, simply cause it's his strongest weapon. I'll change starting range so it's not an issue though, I hate "gun gg" wins, does 10 meters sound good?

A dungeon in Space Funeral is an icy area, and Phillip can traverse it and fight in it no problem, I doubt he'd be impeded too much. Besides, he resists Ice Manip, so falling in the water isn't an issue in case that happens.

Batman's Class 1 is calc-less so they are equal in LS, with Phillip becoming stronger once he uses Muscled. However if he is disarmed he can fight H2H no problem.
 
Oh, also, Healing is just consuming healing items, aka bags of blood in SF, so it should be fairly possible to use in combat. His buffs should be much faster too, we don't know what they are but they just seem like "make yourself tougher" and have a very quick animation
 
10 should be alright, giving Ra's the chance to get close befrore Philip manages to pull off the cannon and shoot, which is still a possible option.

He might resist ice and cold, but would he be able to get without drowning or being stabbed to death while trying to return? Ra's is also quite skilled in H2H, and does Philip have the ability to counter a swordman with his bare hands?

It's more close than it seems I'll vote inconclusive wait for for more input.
 
SamanPatou said:
10 should be alright, giving Ra's the chance to get close befrore Philip manages to pull off the cannon and shoot, which is still a possible option.

He might resist ice and cold, but would he be able to get without drowning or being stabbed to death while trying to return? Ra's is also quite skilled in H2H, and does Philip have the ability to counter a swordman with his bare hands?
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Most of what Phillip fights is animals so idk, however I do think he wouldn't really find himself in the water to begin with since I think he'd rush down Ra's too much to let that happen.

I don't think he would drown, I mean the reason people drown in cold water is hypothermia, which he won't have to deal with. Without that, the water is fairly calm, should be fairly easy to stay afloat.

Also, Ra's only broke the ice a fair amount into the fight, and it seemed like he specifically set Bruce into it which he could because he knew him so well, idk if he could pull that trick off on a stranger.

If Ra's tries to be too aggressive though that's a great opportunity to try and throw a Bible, which would deal extra damage to him as silly as it sounds.

But yes I am absolutely regretting using this location i just thought it'd be thematic smh
 
Eh, if Ra's is busy trying to stab him I doubt he'd try to dodge such an inconspicuous object.
 
Philip doesn't really try to throw the book IIRC, he just holds it up and it terrifies the shit out of his enemies and oneshots them.
Best depressed boy FRA.
 
It doesn't one-shot them, it deals set damage to them iirc. I wasn't aware of him just needing to hold them up tho, must have forgotten.

Nice to see people with based taste in this site tho
 
Is that so? Damn I might really need to retreat him from the tournament after all, half the people here classify as criminals.
 
phew. well, i am completely lost now, is this a stomp or not? probably not but idk
 
Yeah, but it's fairly significant due to the arena.

Also I feel like bibles would inflict less damage to him, the fact that they inflict moral damage would imply they exploit some sort of guilt of the target, and idk if Ra's even sees himself as a criminal
 
Sounds to me like Philip wins more times than not.
So that dude FRA.
 
Do you guys think it's a stomp? I seriously don't want my character to ruin the tournament.

Regardless, votes counted for now
 
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