9-B Tournament Round 1, Match 7: DKT Batman vs Gregor Clegane

[RandomGuy2345]

Here are the last batch of matchups in the first round of this 9-B tournament.

DKT Batman (@Shadyboi0) vs Gregor Clegane (@RoTt35)

If Batman's equipment is too OP, then I'll have no problems removing it.

Speed is equalized.

Fight takes place in the World Martial Tournament.

The Better Batman: 7 (jacky, Abstractions, RandomGuy, Popted, Propellus, Bruhtelho, Tybalt)

This guy is definitely losing lul: 1 (RoTt35)

Inconclusive:

 

[RoTt35]

Can Batman do something to pass through Gregor's immortality and armor?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Can Batman do something to pass through Gregor's immortality and armor?

idk

 

[Propellus]

Can't Batman just break his sword with his armblades?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

What other abilities can Batman utilize here?

 

[RoTt35]

Can't Batman just break his sword with his armblades?

I don't know, but if he does it Gregor can still use his hands or the severed sword blade, he can also use his superior Lifting Strength. Can Batman, someone who doesn't kill, defeat an opponent with immortality and superhuman stamina?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I don't know, but if he does it Gregor can still use his hands or the severed sword blade, he can also use his superior Lifting Strength. Can Batman, someone who doesn't kill, defeat an opponent with immortality and superhuman stamina?

Not too sure tbh

 

[Propellus]

Might as well just replace Undead Gregor with the human one, since Bats would have no chance of beating him at all

 

[RoTt35]

Undead Gregor Clegane was accepted into the tournament, it was randomness and bad luck for Batman that he had to fight someone with immortality, I don't think it's fair to change the key just for that unless OP considers Gregor's immortality very broken

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Batman has Social Influencing, can amplify his strength, removing his mask will cause an electric shock, and he has batarangs which can knockout an individual upon piercing.

I'm sure Batman will be just fine here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

How does Batman's bat-shaped throwing equipment K.O. people? If it works against immortals he probably wins.

 

[Propellus]

How does Batman's bat-shaped throwing equipment K.O. people? If it works against immortals he probably wins.

Those things did knock out criminals in the movies

 

[RandomGuy2345]

How does Batman's bat-shaped throwing equipment K.O. people? If it works against immortals he probably wins.

It says it in his profile?

 

[RoTt35]

Batman has Social Influencing

It would be easier to kill Gregor than to influence him, since he is a sadistic psychopath who only kills, and even more so in his undead form

removing his mask will cause an electric shock

Gregor wouldn't try to remove his mask, his main movements would be, with his sword: decapitate him, dismember a limb, bisect him in two or cut his stomach; with his hands: ripp off or crush his head

and he has batarangs which can knockout an individual upon piercing.

I don't know if that would work on Gregor since all his skin is rotten due to his death with corrosive poison and subsequent resurrection and he has type 2 and 7 immortality, plus his armor covers practically his entire body

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It would be easier to kill Gregor than to influence him, since he is a sadistic psychopath who only kills, and even more so in his undead form

Batman doesn't kill, so this arguably makes it worse for him.

Yeah, unless someone more knowledgeable than me can give some input here, I can't see how Batman can win here.

The Better Batman:

This guy is definitely losing lul:

I underestimated this dude lol

 

[Propellus]

But then again, Undead Gregor makes this a stomp since Bats practically can't do anything to him

 

[Jackythejack]

Batman via actually having an AP value that oneshots Gregor

 

[Propellus]

Batman via actually having an AP value that oneshots Gregor

With what? I'm not sure if he can use his 9-A equipment here

 

[Jackythejack]

With the calc that is one his profile

 

[Jackythejack]

Anyways Batman is I'm sure way more skilled or at the very least far more intelligent. He has a good way of distracting Clegan, he can sneak around him, he's probably stronger and more durable. He has more variety, he can probably tie him up with the grappling hook, or knock him out with the batarang. Point is, Batman is just better in general and all Clegan got is some general immortality, but I feel like the moment Batman realizes he's a zombie he won't care nearly as much about keeping him "alive". he's already dead. It's essentially like asking if Batman would kill a zombie, which I'm sure he would.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Anyways Batman is I'm sure way more skilled or at the very least far more intelligent. He has a good way of distracting Clegan, he can sneak around him, he's probably stronger and more durable. He has more variety, he can probably tie him up with the grappling hook, or knock him out with the batarang. Point is, Batman is just better in general and all Clegan got is some general immortality, but I feel like the moment Batman realizes he's a zombie he won't care nearly as much about keeping him "alive". he's already dead. It's essentially like asking if Batman would kill a zombie, which I'm sure he would.

In that case, this match should be a lot more even then.

 

[Propellus]

With the calc that is one his profile

That scales lower than the one Gregor scales to

 

[Jackythejack]

That scales lower than the one Gregor scales to

How does he scale? Because I saw in another thread that he doesn't have a reason to, and I saw you yourself say that you don't understand why he would

 

[Propellus]

How does he scale? Because I saw in another thread that he doesn't have a reason to, and I saw you yourself say that you don't understand why he would

You might want to ask @RoTt35 about that

 

[Jackythejack]

Either way my main points still stand. Batman is a lot more skilled and more versatile and generally better. Being comparable in AP doesn't matter too much.

 

[RoTt35]

he can sneak around him

I think Batman wouldn't be able to take much advantage of his Stealth Mastery due to the location

he can probably tie him up with the grappling hook

Gregor has Class 5 Lifting Strength, so the grappling hook wouldn't work on him since he is superior to Batman in LS

knock him out with the batarang

I don't know if that would work on Gregor since all his skin is rotten due to his death with corrosive poison and subsequent resurrection and he has type 2 and 7 immortality, plus his armor covers practically his entire body

Point is, Batman is just better in general and all Clegan got is some general immortality, but I feel like the moment Batman realizes he's a zombie he won't care nearly as much about keeping him "alive". he's already dead. It's essentially like asking if Batman would kill a zombie, which I'm sure he would.

That wouldn't matter since Batman has little, if any, way to get through type 2 immortality and Gregor's armor; and since Gregor has a higher stamina than Batman, he can take a huge amount of hits that wouldn't have much effect on him. Also, Gregor isn't useless in combat, he is skilled with his greatsword and is able to fight, block and dodge attacks from other skilled knights; obviously I'm not saying that Gregor has a skill close to Batman's, but my point is that he is not just some dumb zombie

How does he scale? Because I saw in another thread that he doesn't have a reason to, and I saw you yourself say that you don't understand why he would

Since Gregor's original scale is in doubt, at the moment he would be >>> 121,520 Joules

 

[Jackythejack]

I'm not saying he's useless. I'm saying Batman is better. You get past type 2 immortality by generally just punching more until they give up. Batman still has bats to use as distraction and a way to amplify his strength. I don't see why he couldn't get past the dude's armor with various different batarangs or just using explosives to bypass it.

And my point about bringing up the zombie thing is to say that Batman would probably kill him at that point. I don't think batman's no kill rule extends to non-humans.

 

[RoTt35]

You get past type 2 immortality by generally just punching more until they give up

Gregor has more stamina, so if Batman tries to do that he would tire out first. In addition, his immortality allows him to feel absolutely nothing when he was pierced by a sword through his chest and several stab wounds in his upper area and neck, the only thing that stopped him for a few seconds was a dagger that pierced his eye and brain

I don't see why he couldn't get past the dude's armor with various different batarangs or just using explosives to bypass it

The weapons in GoT are stronger than IRL, since they can severely damage Wights who have 9-B dura. The armors are stated that they can shrug off swords, spears and axes. So Gregor's armor should withstand a good amount of damage, obviously I'm not saying it's impenetrable but it's a point to take into account

And my point about bringing up the zombie thing is to say that Batman would probably kill him at that point. I don't think batman's no kill rule extends to non-humans.

Gregor's entire body is covered with his armor and helmet, so for Batman to be totally sure that Gregor is an undead person he should first see him without his gear I guess. Also, Batman wouldn't kill Gregor easily thanks to his immortality and stamina

 

[Jackythejack]

Gregor has more stamina,

Hate to tell you this but they're both superhuman in stamina.

The most that Gregor has for him is his immortality, but Batman is stronger and would likely be able to punch through his armor given enough swings, which he can get in with his ability to distract Clegane with bats, or just using his grappling hook to maneuver some place out of sight and take him by surprise. Especially when he has something to effectively increase his strength. His flashbangs can also disorient and he has, again, explosions that he can set up.

Batman outranges, is smarter, is stronger and more durable, and more likely more skilled by a considerable amount. I don't see him losing.

 

[RoTt35]

Hate to tell you this but they're both superhuman in stamina.

Batman has no justification for his Superhuman stamina, which was literally "high" until it was changed yesterday. Gregor has never shown any signs of tiredness or pain despite taking heavy damage.

The most that Gregor has for him is his immortality, but Batman is stronger and would likely be able to punch through his armor given enough swings

You say that as if Gregor wouldn't do anything in the whole fight, in melee Gregor has more range with his greatsword and also has superior Lifting Strength which would give him a great advantage due to his way of fighting. And pass through Gregor's immortality isn't that easy since he was totally unaffected by attacks and stab wounds to all the parts of his body

or just using his grappling hook to maneuver some place out of sight and take him by surprise.

Considering the location that wouldn't give Batman much of an advantage

Batman outranges

Batman only has standard melee range in his profile

 

[Jackythejack]

You say that as if Gregor wouldn't do anything in the whole fight, in melee Gregor has more range with his greatsword and also has superior Lifting Strength which would give him a great advantage due to his way of fighting.

It's not that he wouldn't do anything, it's just that Batman has fought against high level mercenaries such as Ra'as and Bane. He's fought heavy hitters before and I think he'd have enough skill to avoid a good chunk of Gregor's attacks.

Batman only has standard melee range in his profile

My guy he has baterangs and a grappling hook what do you think he's going to do, whack hiim with them?

 

[Propellus]

Batman only has standard melee range in his profile

And I'm going to have to fix that

 

[RoTt35]

It's not that he wouldn't do anything, it's just that Batman has fought against high level mercenaries such as Ra'as and Bane. He's fought heavy hitters before and I think he'd have enough skill to avoid a good chunk of Gregor's attacks.

Batman has never fought an immortal foe who is unaffected by punches and slices. Gregor also has an advantage in stamina, lifting strength and in melee range. Batman can't dodge or block Gregor's attacks forever, he will eventually tire or be injured enough to be an easy target for Gregor

he has baterangs and a grappling hook

The batarangs would have practically no effect due to Gregor's immortality and armor, and the grappling hook would only work for him to flee or change position and not for attack since Gregor has higher lifting strength

 

[Jackythejack]

Batman has more strength, more durability, more range, more skill, more intelligence, and more versatility.

He has explosions to get through the armor and make room for his batarangs.

I think at this point we're just going to be going back and forth it's really obvious neither of us are going to agree on this.

I'm voting for Batman.

 

[RoTt35]

The problem is that Batman has very few options, if any, to pass through Gregor's immortality. Hitting until he beats him is not an option since Gregor's stamina is higher and his hits would have little effect and damage on him. Batarangs would also not work for the same reason plus the armor.
For the moment I vote for Gregor for his immortality (which Batman's equipment would not pass through), stamina, higher melee range and lifting strength

 

[Abstractions]

Since Gregor's original scale is in doubt, at the moment he would be >>> 121,520 Joules

Undeads surviving large falls shouldn't come as a shock, it can be interpreted as that factor doing the heavy lifting rather than actual durability.

Gregor initially got his teeth kicked in by someone weaker and less skilled than Batman who happened to be agile, I think the argument has an overreliance on morals and immortality because everything else is rather inconsequential.

 

[RoTt35]

Gregor initially got his teeth kicked in by someone weaker and less skilled than Batman who happened to be agile, I think the argument has an overreliance on morals and immortality because everything else is rather inconsequential.

That was before Gregor became an undead, plus Oberyn had a weapon that Batman doesn't. Gregor as an undead is stronger and more durable, punches and slices have no effect on his body, his stamina is far higher, etc.

 

[Abstractions]

That was before Gregor became an undead, plus Oberyn had a weapon that Batman doesn't.

Gregor didn't become more skilled when becoming undead, Oberyn also isn't nearly as skilled or as strong as Batman.

Gregor as an undead is stronger and more durable, punches and slices have no effect on his body, his stamina is far higher, etc.

Being stronger than skull crushing would still end up much weaker than Batman, especially after the thread on the subject. Also "having no effect on his body" is different from him being pain tolerant, Bruce can still break Gregor's limbs to incapacitate him irrespective of how Gregor will feel about it, having higher stamina than Batman isn't exactly relevant here, he can go for as long as he needs to because the match isn't lasting forever.

 

[RoTt35]

Gregor didn't become more skilled when becoming undead, Oberyn also isn't nearly as skilled or as strong as Batman.

When I said that? The way of fighting and weapons of Oberyn are very different from those of Batman

Being stronger than skull crushing would still end up much weaker than Batman, especially after the thread on the subject.

Gregor doesn't scale more of that feat, and I said that Undead Gregor was stronger and more durable than his human form, not that Batman

Also "having no effect on his body" is different from him being pain tolerant, Bruce can still break Gregor's limbs to incapacitate him irrespective of how Gregor will feel about it, having higher stamina than Batman isn't exactly relevant here, he can go for as long as he needs to because the match isn't lasting forever.

Gregor can't feel pain and has never shown himself to be tired; he was impaled with a sword through his chest, stabbed in his neck several times, and only a dagger that pierced his eye and brain stopped him for a few seconds. Gregor isn't a fool, if Batman tries to attack him he will defend himself taking advantage of his higher melee range with his greatsword or his higher lifting strength to grab Batman or knock him down, plus Gregor's armor should give him a little more resistance. And having more stamina than Batman would help since Gregor wouldn't feel pain or fatigue for the duration of the battle while Batman would

 

[Abstractions]

When I said that?

I interpreted that as what you were getting at because I think it's clear to most people familiar with Gregor that the fight with Oberyn was when he was alive, so when you say "that was when he was undead" when I'm highlighting a skill gap then one could gather that a change occurs when he's undead.

Gregor doesn't scale more of that feat, and I said that Undead Gregor was stronger and more durable than his human form

He has no other AP calculations listed, and again with the durability thing just being an immortality factor and not an actual durability increase.

Gregor can't feel pain and has never shown himself to be tired; he was impaled with a sword through his chest, stabbed in his neck several times, and only a dagger that pierced his eye and brain stopped him for a few seconds.

None of this is actually relevant to what I said, pain tolerance doesn't entail a weird invulnerability, he can still be rendered unable to fight if his limbs are broken.

Gregor isn't a fool, if Batman tries to attack him he will defend himself taking advantage of his higher melee range with his greatsword or his higher lifting strength to grab Batman or knock him down, plus Gregor's armor should give him a little more resistance.

And Batman is shockingly even less of a fool, he's far more intelligent and skilled and knows his way around a sword after being trained by the league of assassins, he's not going to let himself be grabbed by a lumbering brute.