BlastX
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Nagato had the Rinnegan since he was a baby I think, so the comparison is null.
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Base The last Naruto and Hamura chakra Hinata upgrade(Part 2).
Nullflowerblush
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damn he really was 10-c
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Tdjwo
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Those are still durability feats for Sasuke and Base Naruto clashing equally with Sasuke still makes him Planet class. This is exactly the same way Darui got upgraded to 5B via clashing with Base Momoshiki. I don't know why anyone would try turning a blind eye when it's Naruto or Sasuke's case.
Why is it not a feat for Sasuke? Sasuke could physically halt SPSM Naruto who just got blown by Kaguya's vacuum palm. It takes a relative AP to do that. If you don't have the AP or strength to stop somebody from knocking you away, you would be knocked out. This already happened in early shippuden when Kabuto was able to knock out Sakura after he got blown back by 3 tails Naruto.
In Sasuke's case, his strength was at the very least relative to SPSM Naruto to be able to halt Naruto's movement after getting blown away by Kaguya.
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Them being durability feats does not make them strength feats.
Sasuke didn't use physical strength to interrupt Naruto's fall; he just got behind him and Naruto crashed into him. Same as if Naruto were to crash into the floor or a wall. That's all.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,947
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- #46
Base Naruto clashing equally with Sasuke makes it a strength feat for Base Naruto. Like I said earlier, if Darui could get a 5-B upgrade just by clashing with Base Momoshiki, then Base Naruto should get the same.
You are contradicting yourself. If Sasuke didn't use physical strength to halt Naruto, then how did he stop him? Tell me, can you stop an elephant that is hurled at you by your own strength?
Floors and walls are non-living things that have a rigid foundation. Naruto crashes walls and floors because they can't withstand his AP. You are only proving my point further.
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I fail to see where any of these scans prove Sasuke has striking strength = SPSM KCM Naruto.
No this creates circular scaling. You're proposing SPSM KCM Naruto's physicals = Rinnegan Sasuke's physicals = base Naruto's physicals, but SPSM KCM is objectively superior to Naruto's base form.
Tdjwo
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- #48
It proves he does have the durability on par with SPSM Naruto. Base Naruto clashing on equal ground with Sasuke gives him a low-end relativity in AP.
It's a "low-end" scaling. We accepted a 5B Boruto era post Kurama Naruto despite KCM SPSM being objectively superior to post kurama Boruto era Naruto. This seems hypocritical here especially when I can prove EOS base Naruto has low-end relativity.
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One, Kaguya throwing them away casually isn't a relativity feat. Two, Kaguya throwing Sasuke into Naruto or vice versa isn't a relativity feat. Three, Sasuke blocking Limbo with a sword isnt a relativity feat to Naruto. Four, that scan you use to claim Naruto was bloodied shows 0 blood. So, no not really.
Base Naruto clashed evenly with Sasuke's physicals, yet SPSM KCM Naruto is two amps above Naruto's base, SPSM + KCM. I disagree with the scans you sent being indicative of base Naruto ~ SPSM KCM Naruto. Also, when we see Naruto and Sasuke fight, SPSM KCM Naruto is able to tank Sasuke's jutsu without any major damage (no sells chidori and catches fireball), implying a level of superiority and not relativity between Rinnegan Sasuke's physicals and SPSM KCM Naruto's.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,947
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- #50
Kaguya didn't "just throw them" She hit Naruto so hard with her vacuum palm that SPSM Naruto couldn't stop spinning. Do you know how much force that was? For Sasuke to physically stop Naruto right on that spot without also getting pushed back by the force is a feat by itself. I love how both you and Damage easily avoided talking about the Sakura-Kabuto situation which explains what happens when you get hit by a force far stronger than you can halt.
He never blocked it with a sword. He blocked it with his arm. That's why he flew backward in the next panel.
Yes there was blood.
Rinnegan Sasuke with jutsus is clearly superior to EoS Base Naruto. That's very obvious. It's exactly the same way Fused Momoshiki with his jutsus is also superior to Base Naruto yet you have boruto era Base Naruto at 5-B because he kept up with Fused Momoshiki. You are directly and evidently contradicting yourself with the statements you are making. If you could give Boruto-era base Naruto a 5B rating for keeping up with Fused Momoshiki in taijutsu, why can't you do the same with EoS base Naruto who did the same exact thing against Rinnegan Sasuke? You are giving me examples of Rinnegan Sasuke getting his jutsu no diffed by SPSM Naruto yet you didn't consider this with Adult SPSM Naruto who could also overpower Momoshiki unlike his Base form yet you allowed a 5B rating for base adult Naruto. Anybody that's actually reading this would obviously see there's a contradiction with your scaling for adult base Naruto and EoS base Naruto..
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That isn't blood look at the panel below that you sneakily omitted, it shows Naruto with no signs of blood injury.
I see a sword in that other hand personally.
Sasuke stopping Naruto flying in mid air =/= Sasuke's punches scale to Naruto's punches.
Real
Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,947
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- #52
OMG, the circled line clearly showed flowing blood trails on the air. That happens in anime when you get hit on the jaw, and blood spills out on the air. THe next panel doesn't mean anything. It simply means the blood didn't trickle down his mouth.
Look at the impact mark. You are clearly acting clueless on purpose at this point. How can you look at that panel, the impact mark, and Sasuke clearly shielding himself from the attack yet you claim it was the sword that got hit?
Sasuke used his arm to halt Naruto. It's not a punch. Naruto didn't even punch him in any panel I showed.
To be honest, that's what it is at this point. I clearly refuted your points but you are stylishly disapproving my points without properly debunking them. It's kinda not cool
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It's not blood lol we see Naruto has no damage immediately after.
The impact mark isn't even touching Sasuke. However, we see Sasuke swinging the sword before he gets sent flying back.
Stopping Naruto flying through the air =/= scaling to Naruto's physicals.
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Is there a statement about this in Shippuden?
IIRC Kaguya shat on Sasuke's Susanoo with her Chakra Fists and by flexing her Chakra while Naruto could contend with a barrage of Chakra Fists using his own Chakra Fists
Not really
Nullflowerblush
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Crazy how Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke clashed equally, and a weakened Naruto and a weakened Sasuke with his Rinnegan damaged later fought each other on equal footing.
Tdjwo
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- #56
It doesn't matter if we see no damage next panel. We obviously see blood spills when the limbo kicked him. If it ain't blood spill, then what is it?
It showed it hitting him. Bro are you for real? The sword wasn't even touched by the limbo
Why not? Can you stop an Elephant thrown at you? If you can't, thay means you don't scale to the Elephant. But if you can, then you can scale to its physical.
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That's Lifting Strength though not Striking Strength. And why would you scale to the Elephant's Physicals when all you did was halt it's momentum?
Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,947
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- #59
How is that lifting strength? Stopping an elephant suddenly is not the same as lifting it. And even if it was lifting strength feat, it would mean Sasuke's striking strength is comparable to his lifting strength.
Can you normally stop an Elrphant with your physical strength? If you can, then you directly scale to it. Halting it's momentum suddenly takes a burst of physical AP.
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This thread is something else.
smdh.
smdh.
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Is there a statement that says they're Equal in Shippuden? Because Rinnegan Sasuke gets more Ls than KCM SPSM Naruto.
IIRC Boruto versions of them have those statements.
So Naruto's Chakra Fists can shit on Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo? Got it.
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Summon the council of TurbAizens
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The council doesn't wish to be involved in this thread.
Arc is currently acting as a free agent right now, his actions are his actions alone.
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Debris.
The impact cloud thing isn't even touching Sasuke
Sasuke used his sword in the block.Let me simplify it, to scale to someone's striking strength you need a feat. For example, say you threw a punch and I threw a punch and those punches cancelled out, that would mean our striking strength is relative.
Now please stop whining and show me a scan of Sasuke's punches being ~ SPSM KCM Naruto's punches.
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Nullflowerblush
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Sasuke's physicals with the Rinnegan scaling to both Naruto's physicals and Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto's physical in the same breath makes little to no sense in of itself, but, once again...
...then, after their avatars destroy each other, leaving Naruto weakened and wounded to the point that he could barely draw on Kurama and Sasuke bloodied and beaten to point his Chakra Control was shot and his Rinnegan was deteriorated...
If the Rinnegan allowed Sasuke to physically match Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, which is not even implied narratively, then how come he performed identically against base Naruto with and without the full strength of the Rinnegan. It appears as though Sasuke is still only physically comparable to Naruto, even with the Rinnegan.
Like, c'mon.
SPSM Naruto = Rinnegan Sasuke ~ Base Naruto?
...then, after their avatars destroy each other, leaving Naruto weakened and wounded to the point that he could barely draw on Kurama and Sasuke bloodied and beaten to point his Chakra Control was shot and his Rinnegan was deteriorated...
If the Rinnegan allowed Sasuke to physically match Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto, which is not even implied narratively, then how come he performed identically against base Naruto with and without the full strength of the Rinnegan. It appears as though Sasuke is still only physically comparable to Naruto, even with the Rinnegan.
Like, c'mon.
SPSM Naruto = Rinnegan Sasuke ~ Base Naruto?
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I honestly don't believe that's debris in this scan which Tdjwo (or however you spell your goofy ass name) posted.
The official colored scan clearly shows blood being knocked out off Naruto after being bitched by Madara, the lack of damage on Naruto's face could very well be his regeneration kicking in and healing the wound, i wouldn't say the lack of damage in the subsequent panel is a inherent defeater to what Td is currently arguing given this knowledge.
But that's just my opinion on that specific topic.
The official colored scan clearly shows blood being knocked out off Naruto after being bitched by Madara, the lack of damage on Naruto's face could very well be his regeneration kicking in and healing the wound, i wouldn't say the lack of damage in the subsequent panel is a inherent defeater to what Td is currently arguing given this knowledge.
But that's just my opinion on that specific topic.
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Considering the panel immediately beneath Naruto is fine I disagree. We also see Naruto get damaged against Kaguya despite his regen so that's not really an excuse.
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The inconsistency of when Naruto regenerates or not isn't an argument against the fact Naruto could've possibly regenerated from that damage, i'm not making a concrete statement, i'm saying this assumption does exist, with said assumption having evidence backing it up, that's it.
I disagree with your disagreement
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C'mon Arc, that's obviously Naruto's nosebleed since Madara is too damn Hawt for him alone
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Equal interp leaves us nowhere then at worstThe inconsistency of when Naruto regenerates or not isn't an argument against the fact Naruto could've possibly regenerated from that damage, i'm not making a concrete statement, i'm saying this assumption does exist, with said assumption having evidence backing it up, that's it.
I disagree with your disagreement
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Definitely wouldn't say we have equal interpretations, i believe my interpretation is more likely given the fact blood does come out of Naruto after he's clapped by Madara, you haven't really argued against that contention effectively at all.
But i honestly don't care about this thread, Tdjwo i've given you the blueprint regarding this specific topic, use it to clap Arc's cheeks up
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That's not blood, "maybe art inconsistency" doesn't prove it's blood.Definitely wouldn't say we have equal interpretations, i believe my interpretation is more likely given the fact blood does come out of Naruto after he's clapped by Madara, you haven't really argued against that contention effectively at all.
But i honestly don't care about this thread, Tdjwo i've given you the blueprint regarding this specific topic, use it to clap Arc's cheeks up
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That's a worthy comment if i've ever seen one.
Damage-type argument.
worthy comment if i've ever seen one.Damage-type argument.
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That's a
Damage-type argument.
you already acknowledge your view as subjective here anyhowBut steelmanning this argument for a second, let's say Madara drew blood from SPSM KCM Naruto with a punch, that would just mean Juubidara's punches scale above Sasuke's Chidori (as it couldn't pierce the KCM cloak much less draw blood), and Sasuke's Chidori scales above his punches. So, Sasuke wouldn't even scale to Juubidara's physicals with his own striking strength regardless.
Godernet
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I get not scaling base naruto since trying to figure out how much hagaromos chakra buffed his base is very questionable. but shouldn't rinnegan sasuke at least have small planetary striking due to having half of hags chakra to infuse into punches?
But steelmanning this argument for a second, let's say Madara drew blood from SPSM KCM Naruto with a punch, that would just mean Juubidara's punches scale above Sasuke's Chidori (as it couldn't pierce the KCM cloak much less draw blood), and Sasuke's Chidori scales above his punches. So, Sasuke wouldn't even scale to Juubidara's physicals with his own striking strength regardless.
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That's me talking only about the regeneration part, i don't believe Naruto spitting out blood is that subjective at all, the onus would be on you to prove that this was an art error instead of Naruto spitting out blood after getting socked in his shit by Madara.
@Tdjwo Slide.
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Not an art error if it isn't blood
UsoppLaugh
We dropped the Naruto and Sasuke = half Hag AP scaling in my last thread so no that doesn't really work
Tdjwo
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I can basically uno-reverse counter using your logic. Since Naruto with TSO couldn't destroy Madara’s limbo which is supposed to be equal to Madara himself, while Sasuke with chidori spear could slice 1 eyed Juubidara in half, that means Sasuke's chidori spear(which is weaker than a normal chidori) scales above both Naruto and 2 eyed Juubidara.
But steelmanning this argument for a second, let's say Madara drew blood from SPSM KCM Naruto with a punch, that would just mean Juubidara's punches scale above Sasuke's Chidori (as it couldn't pierce the KCM cloak much less draw blood), and Sasuke's Chidori scales above his punches. So, Sasuke wouldn't even scale to Juubidara's physicals with his own striking strength regardless.
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