Base (Kid) Lucemon and Warrior Ten Upgrade

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So the Susanoomon vs Kouga thread got me thinking, Why is Kid Lucemon only 4-B? In his Official Databook descriptio it is confirmed that his power were passed onto the 3 Great Angels Seraphimon, Ophanimon and Cherubimon.

"It is said that Lucemon's abilities have now been inherited and split among the Three Great Angels."-Official Databook

Now, how is this important you ask? Well, if you notice, all Databook versions of the 3 Great Angels are "3-B" at the very least. Lucemon's power when split to 3 different beings still equals 3-B. This would suggest that Lucemon is likely "3-A" in Base form, not just 4-B.

Now what does this have to do with the Warrior Ten? Well, they are the ones who fought Lucemon and sealed him. As such this would mean they all would likely scale as such. And the tiers I'm going for is...

Kid Lucemon: At least 3-B, likely 3-A

Warrior Ten: Likely 3-B

 

[Executor_N0]

I had not even realized that Lucemon was 4-B e.e. Anyway, if it is to help Ancient Volcanomon is said to be able to create a small anti-matter Big Bang. I believe it is useful for this (and as it is explicitly only anti-matter, it should not escalate to the space-time Big Bang of the rest of the franchise).

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Who were the three angels again and why are they 3-B? Also, no to the 3-A. You forget how massive 3-B is. Remember that before we just put BoG at 3-A, we didn't make Goku 3-A until Kaioken Blue even though he's been teetering on it since SSG. This isn't different.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

There is also the fact that Seraphimon who has a third of Lucemon's power can create a big bang with a suicide move.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Emphasis on suicide move.

 

[Executor_N0]

One thing, this is what is in the official profile:

It is said that Lucemon's abilities have now been inherited and split among the Three Great Angels. Its Special Move is firing ten super-heated spheres of light arranged in a cruciform syzygy (Grand Cross). This technique possesses a power surpassing that of Seraphimon's "Seven Heavens".

With this first speech, can we consider that the TGA skills were originally from Lucemon and that power was only given to the TGA? This may be good for increasing Lucemon's HAX e.e

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Technically the angels should scale to the Royal Knights. Also now that you mention it...Why were they 3-B? That is a more pressing concern...They scaled to Lucemon...who wasn't even 3-A back then....Only Falldown Mode was. And they don't get power from that form.

 

[Executor_N0]

In fact, seeing the level of power of the skills in Hypercolosseum the Seraphimon TGA has a different characteristic from the other Seraphimon, its Seven Heavens is superior to the Testament ...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Cal Still Lucy's power.

@Executor I mean the thing is, other than Cherubimon, who out of the angels have any hax?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What's Hypercolosseum again?

 

[Executor_N0]

Well, Ofanimon and Seraphimon have healing techniques and ability to neutralize evil powers by purifying evil (Like Ofanimon denying the influence of Lucemon on Cherubimon) ... Yet nothing to the level of Cherubimon e.e (This is reflected even in the spirits that Cherubimon guards , Mercuremon and Duskmon have much more Hax than any of the Legendary Warriors of Ofanimon and Seraphimon).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well aren't all angel Digimon effective against evil beings?

 

[Executor_N0]

In theory yes, by the way some Digimon can remove the evil power and purify it. That's what I mean.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Bump, because Cal brings up a really good point. Why are the Angels 3-B in the first place?

 

[Executor_N0]

I believe it was based on the Testament that represented the Big Bang, the minimum value for this would be Multi-Galaxy and then that was the value used. However today the Big Bang in the franchise is used to refer to the general birth of all creation and not just one universe. Seraphimon's profile has been updated based on that, but the profiles of the other angels have never been revised.

 

[Kaltias]

With "all of creation" you mean the Digital World?

 

[Executor_N0]

The context given in the N0 was literally all the existing worlds.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

The Angels would likely scale to the Demon Lords, given the fact that Lilithmon is just an evil Ofanimon, similarly for Daemon being an evil Seraphimon.

 

[Executor_N0]

Well, but in case it would scale to Low 2-C for them.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Kid Lucemon would be likely "At least Low 2-C" while the 3 Great Angels are Low 2-C. This would once again create another outlier as the Frontier Cast top at 4-B.

 

[Executor_N0]

Well, the Frontier characters could only rival the power of the Three Great Angels in Doule Spirit / Hyper Spirit. Both forms are officially said to contain all the power of the ancient Legendary Warrior and a new unique power.

 

[Executor_N0]

Anyway, this is good for scale to the Royal Knights. In addition to existing feats they outweigh the power of the Three Great Angels. See that Aldamon was enough to defeat Black Seraphimon, Seraphimon + Mercuremon, and Kaiser Greymon and Magna Garurumon defeated together Vice Cherubimon (It had a negative energy boost given by Lucemon and had gotten a lot of data from the Digital World) and they started out as one Nothing for the Royal Knights (Dynasmon and LordKnightmon).

Also we have Cherubimon and Black Seraphimon being defeated by a simple blow of Omegamon and Dukemon in Digimon Crusader.

This is consistent with the other Tier 2 feats of the group.

One problem I see is that according to Digimon Collectors even Black Seraphimon has not yet reached the level of Demon.

Another form of evil wickedness of Seraphimon stained with malice. Tens of angel wings shining gold are stained dark purple like bats, and the silver-colored armor is transforming fiercely. It is said that there is no depraving, but it is said to exist one step before Demon.
	~ Digimon Collectors​

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

This also implies Daemon is stronger than Seraphimon naturally.

 

[Reppuzan]

Perhaps we should make a separate entry for Databook Kid Lucemon, given that the scale of his powers seems to surpass his Frontier showings.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I agree with Reppu. That may be best. Otherwise the entire fight with Lucemon until Susanoomon would be an outlier.

So Frontier Kid Lucemon= 4-B

Databook Kid Lucemon- At least Low 2-C

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dragon

It would also make Rookie Lucemon's sealing of Huanglongmo reasonable.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I think Repp's suggestion is reasonable as well.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That's a big one. It is kinda hard to believe a character sealed anoher character literally infinitely stronger than him.

How should we treat the Warrior Ten? Their official Databook entries mention the sealing of Lucemon.

 

[Kaltias]

Isn't sealing an infinitely stronger character something Lucemon himself did (or at least that was the case while Kid Lucemon was 3D)? Also God sealed Zeed making him infinitely weaker. It isn't like broken sealings aren't a thing in the verse.

My Lucemon vs Godcat is saved.

 

[Executor_N0]

One question, how did the Ten Warriors (Ancient Greymon, Ancient Garurumon, etc.) who faced Lucemon stay after that?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Kalt That's true

@Executor What do you mean?

 

[Executor_N0]

The question arises because A.Garurumon and A.Greymon not only came by surprise and sealed Lucemon. They literally faced Lucemon in a great battle, of that battle 8 of the Warrior Ten died and 2 survived and sealed Lucemon.

It is said that in the previous crusade, it survived to the end alongside Ancient Greymon, and sealed away Lucemon.
	~ Digimon Reference Book (Ancient Garurumon)​

It is said that in the previous crusade, it survived to the end alongside Ancient Garurumon, and sealed away Lucemon.
	~ Digimon Reference Book (Ancient Greymon)​

I see no reason to separate the databook from the anime just because "in the anime did not have the same feats as in the databook", it is clear that the Databook would bring content out of the anime, but it is still the same story.

When the DRB talks about Digimon in general, it's ok just a Databook key, it would be something like "Digimon X Common." However the Digimon Frontier characters are clearly those that are mentioned in the Digimon Referecne Book, not just ordinary Digimon of this species. You can see this in these examples that I will show and in the profiles that I have already shown before:

An ancient Digimon that went extinct in the distant past. Boasting a size beyond imagination, it is called the "Ruler of the Skies".
	~ Digimon Reference Book (Ornismon)​

An Armor-level Demon Man Digimon that evolved through the power of the "Digimental of Courage". It is also a guardian deity that protects the ruins (database) of a temple in a forgotten jungle. It is said that Baromon is a survivor of old generation Digimon, and has several abilities of a lost technology not found in current Digimon. The third eye on its brow is one of them, and it is said that this eye is able to forecast the future, and it is told that it was able to survive even at the time of the ancient Digital World's collapse. Its Special Move is manipulating the spirits of the cosmos, causing a group of meteorites to rain down on the enemy (Meteor Dance). Although its drawback is that it takes time to synchronize with the spirits of the cosmos, once invoked, it is said that 10 terabytes of data surrounding the target is annihilated.
	~ Digimon Reference Book (Baromon)​

A Digimon that truly inherited the "Spirit of Darkness" of the legendary Ten Warriors. The "Spirit of Darkness" was changed into its Duskmon form due to Cherubimon's spell, but Löwemon is its true form released from this magical power. This form is by no means a baleful one, and is called the battling "Valiant Jet-black Warrior" that becomes the shadow of the other Ten Warriors. Even on its own, its power is comparable to "Fusion-species" like Aldamon, and it is said that it conceals its power that puts the others to shame within the "Neebelnge Ring" placed on its right index finger. As a master of spearmanship, it is an "Executor of Darkness" that pierces evil with the "Danzai no Yari", and purifies it with the "Shokuzai no Tate". Its Special Moves are blasting the opponent with an intense spear attack (Ewig Schlaf), and firing a golden energy wave from the lion on its chest (Endlich Meteor).
	~ Digimon Reference Book (Löwemon)​

A Digimon that truly inherited the "Spirit of Darkness" of the legendary Ten Warriors. As with Duskmon, the "Spirit of Darkness" was changed into its Velgrmon form due to Cherubimon's spell, but Kaiser Leomon is its true form released from this magical power. It is called the "Jet-black Lion", and its body is covered in a unique metal which shines jet-black and is called "Obsidian Digizoid", a kind of Chrome Digizoid. For that reason, not only is its defensive ability high, but its body armor has a keen sharpness. It is said that after Kaiser Leomon runs through, everything will be cut to pieces by the first gust of that black wind. Its Special Moves are firing a black spirit shot (Schwarz Donner), and smashing into the opponent with its whole body clad in a black aura (Schwarz König).
	~ Digimon Reference Book (Kaiser Leomon)​

I do not see any other franchise in wikia having a key to the characters in what was presented in the anime and another key to what was presented in the databook, always or the two are considered together or the databook is not considered. It's okay to do this when the DRB does not specify what the Digimon is, but in that case it's clear they're the ones from Frontier.

The scale to Frontier would only occur to Double Spirits and Hyper Spirits, which are well above Human Spirits and Beast Spirits. We have already added skills to characters that were just in the profile and were not presented in the anime, as well as character concepts that were also only in the Databook (As the Ancient overcome the Ultimates / Mega's, they are the progenitors of their powers and the Double Spirits Contains all the power of the Ancient and still new powers) then why not also include the destructive power that is presented in the Databook?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

bump

 

[Reppuzan]

@Executor

The thing with Lucemon is that there are literally infinite incarnations of him. This could just as easily be one of the weaker ones.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But then it leave us with an issue of the Official Databooks. The official Databooks directly reference the events of Digimon Frontier. And the Databook Great Angels would be like Low 2-C for having Lucemon's power split amongst them as well as being scaled to the Demon Lords. And the Warrior Ten are scaled/referenced to the Databook Lucemon. We kinda have an Anime/Databook crossing issue.

 

[Executor_N0]

Any character in the franchise has infinite variations of itself, if we were to suppose simply that mentions to other works are actually references only to another universe similar to this then we would never have accepted references to period X in Digimon World Re: Digitize Decode Or references to Decode said by Gankoomon in Cyber Sleuth or references to Adventure coming from Wizardmon and Tailmon in Xros Wars or references to Savers coming from Bagramon in Xros Wars.

You do not have to assume that it is another incarnation if this has not been made official, one should only say that something is from another universe when the franchise says that it is simply another universe. In case it was never said that there was another universe like this, only direct mentions are made to the events that occurred in the anime, if there is nothing official stating that it is another universe then clearly one should think that it is the anime, it does not have to speculate That this is another universe if this is not official.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

bump. This never concluded.