- 26,160
- 3,654
No, hashiramas wood is beyond any normal forest, it could tank nukes
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Base Hashirama vs Big Mom
- Thread starter TheFinalOrder
- Start date
- 193
- 47
Anyone cover the level of area zues can cover with weather control I imagine a massive syrup rainstorm could ruin that poison pollen so it wont become airborne
- 5,357
- 733
Bump
- 51
- 6
Hmmm, that's an interesting match.
You can bearly scratch Mama, so it would be very difficult for Hashi to get her, but Hasi has a long range with mokuton so he is basically safe (If I'm not mistaken, BM can only take a soul if you're near her). Most of the homies are weak, Except for Mama's three. I believe that this battle will go for a few hours without any true winner, but then BM will start getting hungry and weaker, so in the end, I think Hashi takes after 8~12 hours (When she becomes Starved BM) at mid~high diff.
You can bearly scratch Mama, so it would be very difficult for Hashi to get her, but Hasi has a long range with mokuton so he is basically safe (If I'm not mistaken, BM can only take a soul if you're near her). Most of the homies are weak, Except for Mama's three. I believe that this battle will go for a few hours without any true winner, but then BM will start getting hungry and weaker, so in the end, I think Hashi takes after 8~12 hours (When she becomes Starved BM) at mid~high diff.
- 622
- 94
she only gets weak when she's craving for something. she loses all control.
- 26,160
- 3,654
and after hours she would carve for food.
- 622
- 94
depends. if you were to check the timings for the food jinbei gave to her between the timing of the wedding cake then u have your answer.
- 5,107
- 1,786
That only happens when she's going through a hunger craving for something specific. That doesn't apply to every-day life.
Not to mention she isn't rendered vulnerable as she starves despite showing clear signs of catabloysis. She's merely sent into a frenzy and arguably weaker. She can eat literally anything regardless.
I feel like Hashi-voters are disregarding Fusionism, Soul manipulation, and Big Mom's ability to turn any inanimate object into a homie by infusing her own soul, or the soul of another, within them. Hashirama's wood is susceptible to this, and that's his only sure-fire way to hurt Big Mom in the first place.
Not to mention she isn't rendered vulnerable as she starves despite showing clear signs of catabloysis. She's merely sent into a frenzy and arguably weaker. She can eat literally anything regardless.
I feel like Hashi-voters are disregarding Fusionism, Soul manipulation, and Big Mom's ability to turn any inanimate object into a homie by infusing her own soul, or the soul of another, within them. Hashirama's wood is susceptible to this, and that's his only sure-fire way to hurt Big Mom in the first place.
- 26,160
- 3,654
dude, we know for a fect that she would get hungry in hours.
- 5,107
- 1,786
She, can, eat, literally, anything. She only suffers from starving when she is after something specific but it's no where within her reach for hours...
- 26,160
- 3,654
the soul absorption isnt really going to work though. the fusionism part was talked about above, he should be able to stilldispell his own attack. and homies are rarely strong enough to matter with the exeption of the ones she already has
- 63,529
- 8,506
Except Cole
Sorry not sorry
- 5,107
- 1,786
If he's forced to dispel his wood style and has to take the time and energy to conjure up more wood, he's at a severe disadvantage cus Big Mom can abuse that.
The Soul absorption will work if he is fearful of death at any point. Jinbe was scared of death and ran away from Big Mom's demand for him to sacrifice something, yet he flipped the tables on her because he understood how her powers worked and was prepared to face her.
The Soul absorption will work if he is fearful of death at any point. Jinbe was scared of death and ran away from Big Mom's demand for him to sacrifice something, yet he flipped the tables on her because he understood how her powers worked and was prepared to face her.
- 622
- 94
if hashi is to fear death even a little bit, then his soul would get snatched. the question is, does hashirama fear death?
- 26,160
- 3,654
no, he was ready to suicide for others pretty much right away.
- 5,107
- 1,786
That was due to Madara stating he'd only allow peace if Hashirama killed Tobirama, or himself. It was circumstantial and he weighed his life's value as being less than that of peace between the clans. Being willing to commit suicide does not automatically suggest he doesn't fear death.
Jinbe resisting Big Mom was also circumstantial because Jinbe understood the functions of the power, and knew that he'd have nothing to fear from death if he merely didn't express any fear at all.
The only things that would be able to just resist Soul Pocus on a whim are 1) prepared for it, 2) have no soul/have longevity, 3) don't fear death in general whether it be lack of comprehension, or having accepted it.
If at some point Hashirama is put into a situation where he should be concerned about the outcome of the fight, or in despair, Soul Pocus would function properly.
But for Hashirama, it may not be a factor unless he's flat out losing.
Disregarding Soul Pocus, I've already talked about how Big Mom's powers blatantly counteract the poison plants and wood-style in general, not to mention her superior stats, and stat amping, and anenvironmental advantage (she can turn anything inanimate into a homie).
Her weather manipulation and rain-storms (which she does in character almost immediately... not when in a hunger craze) make poison useless, as it prevents it from remaining airborne, turning wood-style into homies makes Hashirama's AP almost a non-factor if she abuses it, and she's got the versatility advantage as Hashirama can't do anything to mitigate her 3 main homies.
Also, her range needs updated since she can send sword-slashes and other attacks outside of Whole-Cake island, which is already a few kilometers in radius. I just looked at it and she's definitely not "extended melee range". Though Hashirama should have that edge for himself regardless.
Jinbe resisting Big Mom was also circumstantial because Jinbe understood the functions of the power, and knew that he'd have nothing to fear from death if he merely didn't express any fear at all.
The only things that would be able to just resist Soul Pocus on a whim are 1) prepared for it, 2) have no soul/have longevity, 3) don't fear death in general whether it be lack of comprehension, or having accepted it.
If at some point Hashirama is put into a situation where he should be concerned about the outcome of the fight, or in despair, Soul Pocus would function properly.
But for Hashirama, it may not be a factor unless he's flat out losing.
Disregarding Soul Pocus, I've already talked about how Big Mom's powers blatantly counteract the poison plants and wood-style in general, not to mention her superior stats, and stat amping, and anenvironmental advantage (she can turn anything inanimate into a homie).
Her weather manipulation and rain-storms (which she does in character almost immediately... not when in a hunger craze) make poison useless, as it prevents it from remaining airborne, turning wood-style into homies makes Hashirama's AP almost a non-factor if she abuses it, and she's got the versatility advantage as Hashirama can't do anything to mitigate her 3 main homies.
Also, her range needs updated since she can send sword-slashes and other attacks outside of Whole-Cake island, which is already a few kilometers in radius. I just looked at it and she's definitely not "extended melee range". Though Hashirama should have that edge for himself regardless.
- 26,160
- 3,654
he died by sarcificing himself though. and that still shows he isnt afraid of it, sepecialy as he wasent exactly overthinking and thanked madara.
the other points still stand, and ill change my vote to her
the other points still stand, and ill change my vote to her
- 193
- 47
can we get a tally ive lost track still voting BM FRA
- 5,357
- 733
Bump
Someone please count the votes.
I'll count the votes after I return from school if no one is willing to do so
Someone please count the votes.
I'll count the votes after I return from school if no one is willing to do so
- 156
- 10
Big mom FRA.
- 622
- 94
ecchi, Cin, 1cheap, Yoh, ricsi, zack moon, burning for big mom, i'll count hashi after
- 5,357
- 733
Charlotte Linlin - 8 - 9 (DodoNova2 - CinCameron20, Sword guy Z, ZackMoon1234, 1cheapskate, Yoh Asakura8, RoyGundam, Ricsi-viragosi, EcchiOtakuTM)
Hashirama Senju - 2 (Rocker1189, Avieliyahu)
Inconclusive - 4 (Shadowbokunohero, Burning Full Fingers, Knightofannihilation666, Gargoyle One)
If anyone else wants to count the votes, then feel free to do so.
Note - This may not be accurate
Hashirama Senju - 2 (Rocker1189, Avieliyahu)
Inconclusive - 4 (Shadowbokunohero, Burning Full Fingers, Knightofannihilation666, Gargoyle One)
If anyone else wants to count the votes, then feel free to do so.
Note - This may not be accurate
- 1,247
- 83
I think Hashirama just out expirerences her imo. His combat skills are too much for her.
And mid battle if she makes too many clones he could always just genjutsu her and go in for the kill.
And mid battle if she makes too many clones he could always just genjutsu her and go in for the kill.
- 5,107
- 1,786
how can he beat her in experience? She is older, and has been in combat since she was 5. She has much more experience, and unlike Hashirama, who only had a single rival, Big Mom had to concern herself with a variety of threatening opponents ranging from the other Yonko to the Navy for decades.
On the contrary, Big Mom's combative skills are too much for Hashirama. And I already listed why his attacks would be nigh-impossible to utilize fully in this fight.
Hashirama's Genjutsu was used once out-of-character, and it is merely an illusion. It's not like Sharingan genjutsu at all.
On the contrary, Big Mom's combative skills are too much for Hashirama. And I already listed why his attacks would be nigh-impossible to utilize fully in this fight.
Hashirama's Genjutsu was used once out-of-character, and it is merely an illusion. It's not like Sharingan genjutsu at all.
- 5,107
- 1,786
Also, to those using the "starve Big Mom" argument. She fasted for over 7 days when she was a child. So RIP that argument.
- 1,247
- 83
Because she is a pirate. All those pirates just brawl. In every fight you can tell most of them don't know martial arts.
Unlike Naruto where literally everyone knows martial arts and was able to beat Madara several times who had the Mangekyou Sharingan while holding back. (Except for the last fight obvouisly)
Yes he had one rival because no one else would dare challenge him. He was the "God of Shinobi" for a reason.
Also I think you forget Hashirama was trained as a child, and they actually died. That's how his other brother died. It was constant war.
If you don't even know that I don't think you should vote because it's coming from a bias standpoint.
Unlike Naruto where literally everyone knows martial arts and was able to beat Madara several times who had the Mangekyou Sharingan while holding back. (Except for the last fight obvouisly)
Yes he had one rival because no one else would dare challenge him. He was the "God of Shinobi" for a reason.
Also I think you forget Hashirama was trained as a child, and they actually died. That's how his other brother died. It was constant war.
If you don't even know that I don't think you should vote because it's coming from a bias standpoint.
- 5,107
- 1,786
Oh my goodness, that's a ridiculous argument. I'm about to shut you down.
1) "Because they are pirates, all they do is just brawl". That's complete BS and you know it. The pirates and marines of the verse have skill in martial arts both fictional and real-world (Fishman Karate, Okama Kenpo, Rokushiki, Merman Combat, Boxing, Hasshoken, Tontatta Combat, Black Leg Style, Kendo, Iaijutsu, Aikido, Tai Chi, Jodo/Staff fighting, ALL variants of Kung Fu, and much more). Naruto verse only has 3 fighting styles in comparison, using your argument.
2) being the God of Shinobi doesn't matter. If he has only had one opponent that was a true threat to him, that shows a distinct lack of experience and variety. You're wanking him hard if you think his title means anything here. I can do the same thing "Big Mom is among the God tiers of the One Piece verse. She stomps Hashirama, who isn't even close to God tier of Naruto".
3) Yes, Hashirama was trained as a child, and experienced war, but so has Big Mom (MANY times), who had the marines place a bounty on her when she was 5 years old. That's 63 years of experience.
4) You're the one being incredibly biased and ignoring the profiles. Ask literally anyone here and they will agree with me after reading through this thread and your clearly biased opinion. Don't make such a statement towards me again. I'll tell mom.
With that, it's clear Big Mom wins as the votes are 9 to 3/4 and Grace Period has long since passed.
1) "Because they are pirates, all they do is just brawl". That's complete BS and you know it. The pirates and marines of the verse have skill in martial arts both fictional and real-world (Fishman Karate, Okama Kenpo, Rokushiki, Merman Combat, Boxing, Hasshoken, Tontatta Combat, Black Leg Style, Kendo, Iaijutsu, Aikido, Tai Chi, Jodo/Staff fighting, ALL variants of Kung Fu, and much more). Naruto verse only has 3 fighting styles in comparison, using your argument.
2) being the God of Shinobi doesn't matter. If he has only had one opponent that was a true threat to him, that shows a distinct lack of experience and variety. You're wanking him hard if you think his title means anything here. I can do the same thing "Big Mom is among the God tiers of the One Piece verse. She stomps Hashirama, who isn't even close to God tier of Naruto".
3) Yes, Hashirama was trained as a child, and experienced war, but so has Big Mom (MANY times), who had the marines place a bounty on her when she was 5 years old. That's 63 years of experience.
4) You're the one being incredibly biased and ignoring the profiles. Ask literally anyone here and they will agree with me after reading through this thread and your clearly biased opinion. Don't make such a statement towards me again. I'll tell mom.
With that, it's clear Big Mom wins as the votes are 9 to 3/4 and Grace Period has long since passed.
- 1,247
- 83
1. Regular pirates as I stated have none of those unique fighting styles. I'm talking about no named pirates that why I didn't name any one. Also I said nothing about marines.
2. I never said he could beat Big Mom because he was god of shinobi, I was just using that as a reference as to how dangerous this man was. And his opponent was the 2nd most feared man for a reason.
3. I watch the show. I know. You on the other hand left out that Hashirama was going up against assassins at a young age + free for all war with other nations.
4. Again, I know what she can do, I watch the show. There's no way in hell Big Mom can win without any help against Hashirama.
Now that im done with that.
The points you've made
Fear Inducement - Hashirama has shown to never fear any opponent. Now that I think about it, only a few Main characters have actually shown fear.
Homies
Two reasons they wouldn't work on Hashirama's wood.
1. All of his creations are infused with his Chakra giving it some form of life.
2. It's a tree. It lives. Trees live.
And as far as weather manipulatipn goes Hashi literally knows all chakra standard chakra nature's.
Also, I don't care who had the most votes I'm not about to let idiots who obvouisly didn't pay attention to Naruto blandly put a character under a rug for no reason. Even if I think Hashi couldn't beat her I would say the same things to give everyone a better understanding because most of the time people on here just vote for who's more popular.
2. I never said he could beat Big Mom because he was god of shinobi, I was just using that as a reference as to how dangerous this man was. And his opponent was the 2nd most feared man for a reason.
3. I watch the show. I know. You on the other hand left out that Hashirama was going up against assassins at a young age + free for all war with other nations.
4. Again, I know what she can do, I watch the show. There's no way in hell Big Mom can win without any help against Hashirama.
Now that im done with that.
The points you've made
Fear Inducement - Hashirama has shown to never fear any opponent. Now that I think about it, only a few Main characters have actually shown fear.
Homies
Two reasons they wouldn't work on Hashirama's wood.
1. All of his creations are infused with his Chakra giving it some form of life.
2. It's a tree. It lives. Trees live.
And as far as weather manipulatipn goes Hashi literally knows all chakra standard chakra nature's.
Also, I don't care who had the most votes I'm not about to let idiots who obvouisly didn't pay attention to Naruto blandly put a character under a rug for no reason. Even if I think Hashi couldn't beat her I would say the same things to give everyone a better understanding because most of the time people on here just vote for who's more popular.
- 5,107
- 1,786
One Piece Anime is non-canon. Stick to the manga.
Uh, ever heard of the Seducing Woods? Literally a bunch of tree homies. You clearly don't know how her power works. She can't re-animate humanoids, that's it. At the very least look at the wiki before you try to debunk something.
Fear Inducements = entices fear... doesn't matter if someone has a strong will power. She calls upon their hold upon life, and if they fear death AT ALL in any way, she can rip their life-span out.
There's no reason for you to call everyone here "idiots". I warned you to watch yourself. Time to get spanked by mother.
Also, you didn't debunk any of my points, GG.
You're throwing Big Mom under the rug if you're disregarding her feats, and suggesting that her powers simply wont work without any acceptable explanation other than "Hashirama is the God of Shinobi".
Uh, ever heard of the Seducing Woods? Literally a bunch of tree homies. You clearly don't know how her power works. She can't re-animate humanoids, that's it. At the very least look at the wiki before you try to debunk something.
Fear Inducements = entices fear... doesn't matter if someone has a strong will power. She calls upon their hold upon life, and if they fear death AT ALL in any way, she can rip their life-span out.
There's no reason for you to call everyone here "idiots". I warned you to watch yourself. Time to get spanked by mother.
Also, you didn't debunk any of my points, GG.
You're throwing Big Mom under the rug if you're disregarding her feats, and suggesting that her powers simply wont work without any acceptable explanation other than "Hashirama is the God of Shinobi".
- 156
- 10
That whole "he never shown fear" arguement is a no limit fallacy imo.
Him not naturally showing fear is not the same as no selling what could be equated to "fear inducement hax" without a resistance to fear inducement shown I highly doubt he would never show fear at all. And he easily knows what fear is or he wouldve never boasted his power when his brother was about to act. I'd be hard pressed to say someone who can use fear tactics has no fear or they wouldnt know how to try and put someone in a fearful position.
And I mean actively trying not like monsters who can passively put others in fear by simply existing. One last example albeit diff verse, Thor had no fear complimentary of man thing for proof but iceman introduced him to what fear was.
Him not naturally showing fear is not the same as no selling what could be equated to "fear inducement hax" without a resistance to fear inducement shown I highly doubt he would never show fear at all. And he easily knows what fear is or he wouldve never boasted his power when his brother was about to act. I'd be hard pressed to say someone who can use fear tactics has no fear or they wouldnt know how to try and put someone in a fearful position.
And I mean actively trying not like monsters who can passively put others in fear by simply existing. One last example albeit diff verse, Thor had no fear complimentary of man thing for proof but iceman introduced him to what fear was.
- 26,160
- 3,654
That whole "he never shown fear" arguement is a no limit fallacy imo.
what? im not saying hes immune to all fear, but he faced death with a smile on his face the first time around and the second time we didnt see, but he still didnt hesitate to die.
what? im not saying hes immune to all fear, but he faced death with a smile on his face the first time around and the second time we didnt see, but he still didnt hesitate to die.
- 26,160
- 3,654
and i didnt say he has no fear, im saying he doesent fear death, he fears for his family, and you really dont need to be fearful yourself to play mindgames
- 26,160
- 3,654
but i didnt say hes resistant to fear cuz he hasent shown it. Im saying he isnt afraid of death because he has shown otherwise and orochimaru has fear manipulation and he aint saoloing the verse. and thats not how nlf work anyways
- 156
- 10
Fear inducement by itself isnt a problem, issue is a soul/lifeforce hax right after so using orochimaru running the verse as an example isnt the same. And I've never seen nor heard of orochimaru's fear manipulation working via the soul nor forcefully implementing it where it wasn't, you'd have to show that one.
- 26,160
- 3,654
but, the soul hax needs the fear hax, if one fails so does the other.
and again, big moms fear manipulation work only with the enemy being afraid of death.
and again, big moms fear manipulation work only with the enemy being afraid of death.
- 26,160
- 3,654
If the person fears death for even a moment, Big Mom will be able to take their lifespan in any amount that she chooses; she can even take a person's entire remaining lifespan, instantly killing them. However, if the person is completely fearless when they choose to have their lifespan taken, Big Mom will be unable to do so, nullifying the technique.
hashirama has shown no fear over death, and thanked madara once he asked to kill himself
hashirama has shown no fear over death, and thanked madara once he asked to kill himself
- 5,107
- 1,786
I already brought up that willingness to give up your life is not automatically "fearless". He weighed his options and genuinely believed that Madara would accept the terms and make peace whenever Hashirama died.
Though he did not show hesitation. And that's why I also mentioned that the chance of Big Mom's Soul Pocus working on Hashirama was low chance--hence why I brought up the other advantages she has. He'd only really be "worried/scared" if he's in a losing situation that seems hopeless and not merely "uphill".
But yes, the match should already have been concluded, so I will ask for it to be added to their profiles.
Though he did not show hesitation. And that's why I also mentioned that the chance of Big Mom's Soul Pocus working on Hashirama was low chance--hence why I brought up the other advantages she has. He'd only really be "worried/scared" if he's in a losing situation that seems hopeless and not merely "uphill".
But yes, the match should already have been concluded, so I will ask for it to be added to their profiles.
Similar threads
