BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Adam1396]

If you have stair step size, elapsed time, and character speed, you can measure distance.

I don't know how you plan to use stairs, they most likely don't use stairs and it's only to create a path for them.

All the SZ member demonstrated good speed and above most of the captains. So obviously above grimjow.
1. Lillie couldn’t land any hit on oetsu until oetsu deliberately kept himself in the dirextion of yhwach.
2. Senjumaru was pressing uryu.
3. Tenjiro is known for his speed and his movement with askin was entirely a mind him which he got outplayed.
4. Same for hikifune.
They were tehcnically taken off guard.

If the seireitei is around 1500km then yhwach's Auswählen ring should be around 30,000km since it dwarfed the royal palace cities which is comparable to the Seireitei and that could easily fit in the Royal palace so distance between the Royal Palace cities and the seireitei is much more then 30,000km

That would be cool. That thing was massive and blew up huge area in royal palace.

 

[Ralp0054]

I don't know how you plan to use stairs, they most likely don't use stairs and it's only to create a path for them.

All the SZ member demonstrated good speed and above most of the captains. So obviously above grimjow.
1. Lillie couldn’t land any hit on oetsu until oetsu deliberately kept himself in the dirextion of yhwach.
2. Senjumaru was pressing uryu.
3. Tenjiro is known for his speed and his movement with askin was entirely a mind him which he got outplayed.
4. Same for hikifune.
They were tehcnically taken off guard.

As I said, it is possible to measure it like this, but there are still shortcomings. I took Tenjiro's lightning speed as a reference,But in the formula I had to assume that each stair step was used, It makes no sense to attempt such an inadequate thing. It was only able to give roughly 5 times the previous measurement at best. Despite everything, I did my best. I think it was a good try, what do you think?

 

[SilentBob34]

@Arc7Kuroi i miss you so much…please save this verse…my supreme king oh so glorious

Wow, explains a lot lol

 

[Adam1396]

As I said, it is possible to measure it like this, but there are still shortcomings. I took Tenjiro's lightning speed as a reference,But in the formula I had to assume that each stair step was used, It makes no sense to attempt such an inadequate thing. It was only able to give roughly 5 times the previous measurement at best. Despite everything, I did my best. I think it was a good try, what do you think?

Though I believe not using stairs seems more accurate, just share it with us. It's a cool idea.

 

[Specterxxxx]

I am measuring the stairs and will use the shunpo method for 1 week to find the distance. I would like you to inform me about the shunpo speed.

Why are you using the stairs? Bleach characters can pseudo fly with or without shunpo so it doesn't make any sense to use it.

The method is literally direct.

Lightninng speed × a week = literal distance of the seretei to royal palace lol.

That's literally it.

 

[Ralp0054]

Why are you using the stairs? Bleach characters can pseudo fly with or without shunpo so it doesn't make any sense to use it.

The method is literally direct.

Lightninng speed × a week = literal distance of the seretei to royal palace lol.

That's literally it.

I only considered the scenario Tenjiro suggested. Never mind, I won't bother with it anyway, someone else will take over.

 

[Adam1396]

Why are you using the stairs? Bleach characters can pseudo fly with or without shunpo so it doesn't make any sense to use it.

The method is literally direct.

Lightninng speed × a week = literal distance of the seretei to royal palace lol.

That's literally it.

What lightning speed do we usually use?

Pretty sure more accurate value in this case would be highest lightning speed found in nature since they scale above lightning which surpasses any lightning in nature. We are talkjng about SZ member's shunpo speed afterall.

 

[Specterxxxx]

I only considered the scenario Tenjiro suggested. Never mind, I won't bother with it anyway, someone else will take over.

The stairs mostly likely meant to convey the path or route to the seretei and it doesn't cover the whole distance so I don't see the stairs being used here.

I would calc it myself but you would still be calcing the speed feats right so I think you should probably just handle it so it can get easily approved by a CGM. But if you don't want to that's okay

 

[Specterxxxx]

What lightning speed do we usually use?

Pretty sure more accurate value in this case would be highest lightning speed found in nature since they scale above lightning which surpasses any lightning in nature. We are talkjng about SZ member's shunpo speed afterall.

I was thinking we use the one used in the original calc. 4.4 e5 m/s as a fair compromised scale.

 

[Ralp0054]

I would calc it myself but you would still be calcing the speed feats right so I think you should probably just handle it so it can get easily approved by a CGM. But if you don't want to that's okay

We need a more solid reference that we can use instead of hikone, and it seems there is no such reference. If Ichigo's speed was scaled to Yhwach's darkness like in the manga, it would be fair to use this speed as a reference, but in the anime there is no scene where Yhwach uses his darkness, there is a cycle like ouroboros.

 

[ichimojii]

We need a more solid reference that we can use instead of hikone, and it seems there is no such reference. If Ichigo's speed was scaled to Yhwach's darkness like in the manga, it would be fair to use this speed as a reference, but in the anime there is no scene where Yhwach uses his darkness, there is a cycle like ouroboros.

What about mimihagi

 

[SilentBob34]

I was thinking we use the one used in the original calc. 4.4 e5 m/s as a fair compromised scale.

Lightning speed for a week seems fair.

 

[Ralp0054]

What about mimihagi

Mimihagi is scaled from the distance between the palace and the seireitei, which is again measured by Ichigo's speed. As you can see, it's a loop again.

 

[AppleLord]

No you can’t, chill out apple

S2 episode 19, and you can see it again on episode 25 when Ichibei slaps Yhwach down.

 

[SilentBob34]

S2 episode 19, and you can see it again on episode 25 when Ichibei slaps Yhwach down.

Tbh I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove lol.

 

[Specterxxxx]

We need a more solid reference that we can use instead of hikone, and it seems there is no such reference. If Ichigo's speed was scaled to Yhwach's darkness like in the manga, it would be fair to use this speed as a reference, but in the anime there is no scene where Yhwach uses his darkness, there is a cycle like ouroboros.

What do you mean by this? We are not using Ichigo's speed to calc it here. We are using Tenjiro Statement that implies the distance. I still don't get your point?

 

[Ralp0054]

What do you mean by this? We are not using Ichigo's speed to calc it here. We are using Tenjiro Statement that implies the size. I still don't get your point?

Of course I would like you to correct me if I'm wrong. Where and how does Tenjiro express this? I tried a different method and took Tenjiro's speed as a referance because he was nicknamed Lightning Speed Tenjiro because of the speed of his Shunpo.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Of course I would like you to correct me if I'm wrong. Where and how does Tenjiro express this? I tried a different method and took Tenjiro's speed as a referance because he was nicknamed Lightning Speed Tenjiro because of the speed of his Shunpo.

In Ep 19, Tenjiro directly states "it's not that far, it should take about a week if you use shunpo" he says this directly to Ichigo. He is most likely making the statement from what he knows about Ichigo who has comparable speed to him before. The same Tenjiro shunpo blitzed Soi fon and Soi fon didn't even know what kind of technique he used before.

The same soi fon that trains lightning speed Onmitsukidō members and can analyse tokinada and them fighting.

So at the very least lightning speed should be used to scale the speed that takes a week to make up for that distance.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Yes, hell even the Onmitsukidō, soi fon's fighting unit is stated to combat at lightning speeds in cyfow and they all got perception blitzed by ss arc yoruichi. So a god tier ichigo should be wayyyy faster than that.

Can you send a scan of this?

 

[Specterxxxx]

Can you send a scan of this?

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[Ralp0054]

In Ep 19, Tenjiro directly states "it's not that far, it should take about a week if you use shunpo" he says this directly to Ichigo. He is most likely making the statement from what he knows about Ichigo who has comparable speed to him before. The same Tenjiro shunpo blitzed Soi fon and Soi fon didn't even know what kind of technique he used before.

The same soi fon that trains lightning speed Onmitsukidō members and can analyse tokinada and them fighting.

So at the very least lightning speed should be used to scale the speed that takes a week to make up for that distance.

This is important information, but in this 1 week scenario, was he recommending using the steps?

 

[Specterxxxx]

This is important information, but in this 1 week scenario, was he recommending using the steps?

Stairs or not shouldn't matter because it doesn't define how fast you move especially if the characters can literally walk on air and use shunpo.

Plus the stairs doesn't cover the whole distance

 

[Specterxxxx]

Also ginjou called candice worthy lightning speed attacks slow and easily dodges all her attacks. Fullbring ichigo (who scales to tenjiro) is faster than ginjou. Another supporting argument.

Note this isn't me saying true shikai ichigo is on par with that speed, he is clearly superior but Tenjiro at the time of his statement doesn't know this and he is making an assessment of the Ichigo’s speed he knows (full bring)

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

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This was rejected before

 

[Specterxxxx]

This was rejected before

It was rejected that not all Onmitsukidō members might be at that speed to invalidate yoruichi ss arc feat. Not that they can't move at lightning speed. Unless you are talkng about another thread.


Edit: Even if they can't tokinada clearly can and soi fon is perceiving him react to lighting and she couldn't perceive Tenjiro's shunpo.

Plus I brought this up as a supporting argument.

Also ginjou called candice worthy lightning speed attacks slow and easily dodges all her attacks. Fullbring ichigo (who scales to tenjiro) is faster than ginjou. Another supporting argument.

Note this isn't me saying true shikai ichigo is on par with that speed, he is clearly superior but Tenjiro at the time of his statement doesn't know this and he is making an assessment of the Ichigo’s speed he knows (full bring)

 

[AppleLord]

Is

Tbh I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove lol.

just a planet bro

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Also ginjou called candice worthy lightning speed attacks slow and easily dodges all her attacks. Fullbring ichigo (who scales to tenjiro) is faster than ginjou. Another supporting argument.

Note this isn't me saying true shikai ichigo is on par with that speed, he is clearly superior but Tenjiro at the time of his statement doesn't know this and he is making an assessment of the Ichigo’s speed he knows (full bring)

Base Ginjo who scales to Complete Fullbring Ichigo said this btw, so lightning speed is an extreme lowball.

Though some people might try to say FB Arc Ginjo ≠ CFYOW Ginjo even though he didn’t get stronger besides maybe training Ganju

 

[Soulking22334]

where do this scale yhwach raw power

 

[SilentBob34]

Also ginjou called candice worthy lightning speed attacks slow and easily dodges all her attacks. Fullbring ichigo (who scales to tenjiro) is faster than ginjou. Another supporting argument.

This was another thing I remember from the speed revisions back then. Ginjo said her lightning imbued arrows were “awfully slow for lightning” which concluded that her arrows were at the lowest end of lightning speed. Which never made sense because she can fire bolts of lightning from her hand and the sky. So why would her arrows that are imbued with the same lightning be slower?

I always took it as Ginjo was mocking her because he is the kind of guy to do that. He wasn’t specifically talking about the speed of her arrows, he just knew calling them slow would piss her off.

 

[SilentBob34]

Is

just a planet bro

There’s clouds right there in the background man. The same as we see throughout his journey traveling back

 

[Specterxxxx]

Base Ginjo who scales to Complete Fullbring Ichigo said this btw, so lightning speed is an extreme lowball.

Though some people might try to say FB Arc Ginjo ≠ CFYOW Ginjo even though he didn’t get stronger besides maybe training Ganju

He most likely didn't get stronger because he didn't train at all.

 

[Specterxxxx]

This was another thing I remember from the speed revisions back then. Ginjo said her lightning imbued arrows were “awfully slow for lightning” which concluded that her arrows were at the lowest end of lightning speed. Which never made sense because she can fire bolts of lightning from her hand and the sky. So why would her arrows that are imbued with the same lightning be slower?

I always took it as Ginjo was mocking her because he is the kind of guy to do that. He wasn’t specifically talking about the speed of her arrows, he just knew calling them slow would piss her off.

Maybe but this argument appeals to possibility not certainty.

 

[Adam1396]

Base Ginjo who scales to Complete Fullbring Ichigo said this btw, so lightning speed is an extreme lowball.

Though some people might try to say FB Arc Ginjo ≠ CFYOW Ginjo even though he didn’t get stronger besides maybe training Ganju

That's what I have been trying to say. Using even highest lightning speed is extreme low ball. We can calc that for low end. But we should look for a solution to get a moderate value.

 

[SilentBob34]

Maybe but this argument appeals to possibility not certainty.

I was saying that Ginjo calling her attacks slow was more so because he was mocking her compared to talking about the actual speed


Edit: I’m dumb, it was the novel itself that called her arrows slower than lightning but fast enough to be considered lightning speed. Should that statement be taken as fact? Probably not. It makes as much sense as base Kenpachi somehow becoming as strong as TB Ichigo in 6 months through no training other than sparring against members in his division

 

[AppleLord]

There’s clouds right there in the background man. The same as we see throughout his journey traveling back

Yes, that’s what a planet haves.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Edit: I’m dumb, it was the novel itself that called her arrows slower than lightning but fast enough to be considered lightning speed. Should that statement be taken as fact? Probably not. It makes as much sense as base Kenpachi somehow becoming as strong as TB Ichigo in 6 months through no training other than sparring against members in his division

To be fair Kenny downscales from true bankai ichigo.

We just have to use that speed for a compromised scaling that would easily get accepted.

 

[ItsMeat]

To be fair Kenny downscales from true bankai ichigo.

 

[ichimojii]

S2 episode 19, and you can see it again on episode 25 when Ichibei slaps Yhwach down.

Might just be perspective. Even when compared to asuwhlen ring you can't see the curvature

 

[ichimojii]

You can also determine how fast someone is moving by how hard the hit the ground using KE

 

[YmTheSuper]

You can also determine how fast someone is moving by how hard the hit the ground using KE

That actually isn't allowed in the wiki.

Kinetic energy feats:

Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it.