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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Adam1396 said:
I have told before I am not expert in overtime feat calc. But considering his statements, and what we have seen till now, a bankai can't be left activated for that long. So it's still not a big time frame. But my gues tells me it will be way abive gremmy's feat.

And as for zaraki's statement, he could fight to heart's content means he can engage yhwach in lengthy battle and far from being able to one shot. This makes him somewhat relative but not equal. It's just enemies who won't die even if zaraki went all out.

Yeah, yamamoto doesn’t have much scaling correlation with zaraki.
Click to expand...
It’s actually not inherently above Gremmy’s feat. Gremmy’s feat is actually easier to argue it’s better lol.

Infinite9Luck put it best tho, feats are not limiters. Yamamoto having a “overtime destruction of SS” statement doesn’t grant him any inherent superiority. Although I can see why you’d think so since it is a rather hyped up moment. I just think we need to separate hype from critical analysis.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
It’s actually not inherently above Gremmy’s feat. Gremmy’s feat is actually easier to argue it’s better lol.

Infinite9Luck put it best tho, feats are not limiters. Yamamoto having a “overtime destruction of SS” statement doesn’t grant him any inherent superiority. Although I can see why you’d think so since it is a rather hyped up moment. I just think we need to separate hype from critical analysis.
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I don’t have favorism for any character of bleach, I love it as a whole. So hype doesn’t affect me at all. Rather I find zaraki's bankai and his whole character, concept of kenpachi hype things.

I am saying what I think. That is yamamoto has solid way of scaling while others can get multipliers.

Well gremmy's dimension seemed tiny compared to SS and considering it's mirror of WOTL so nah. There would still be quite a large gap which multipliers won't cover.
 
Adam1396 said:
I don’t have favorism for any character of bleach, I love it as a whole. So hype doesn’t affect me at all. Rather I find zaraki's bankai and his whole character, concept of kenpachi hype things.

I am saying what I think. That is yamamoto has solid way of scaling while others can get multipliers.

Well gremmy's dimension seemed tiny compared to SS and considering it's mirror of WOTL so nah. There would still be quite a large gap which multipliers won't cover.
Click to expand...

Without what the TYBW anime gave us, would you consider Squad Zero or TYBW Shikai Ichigo weaker than Yama because they have no destruction feat?
 
Adam1396 said:
I don’t have favorism for any character of bleach, I love it as a whole. So hype doesn’t affect me at all. Rather I find zaraki's bankai and his whole character, concept of kenpachi hype things.

I am saying what I think. That is yamamoto has solid way of scaling while others can get multipliers.

Well gremmy's dimension seemed tiny compared to SS and considering it's mirror of WOTL so nah. There would still be quite a large gap which multipliers won't cover.
Click to expand...
Just because you think Gremmy’s feat isn’t as impressive as Yamamoto’s statement doesn’t make that true. Fact of the matter is, as far as calcing feats are concerned, Gremmy’s is just better.

Like what’s your actual argument for Yama’s statement being better than Gremmy’s feat?
 
Excellence616 said:
Without what the TYBW anime gave us, would you consider Squad Zero or TYBW Shikai Ichigo weaker than Yama because they have no destruction feat?
Click to expand...
I just don’t understand why you guys are failing to understand what I am talking about and very much bringing up pointless questions.

Yama himself doesn’t have destructive feat. Zaraki has the best DC feat.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Just because you think Gremmy’s feat isn’t as impressive as Yamamoto’s statement doesn’t make that true. Fact of the matter is, as far as calcing feats are concerned, Gremmy’s is just better.

Like what’s your actual argument for Yama’s statement being better than Gremmy’s feat?
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I think it does. As I have told you Gremmy's dimension seems tiny compared to SS. Yamamoto is just proficient in controlling his reatsu hence taking slow effects initially.

Do we have the size of Soul Society? As far we know it's mirror of our universe. Idk if it's infinite or not. And what bankai we saw being activated longest in battle. I can't remember any shinigami using it for more than 1 day after activation (it's probably a few hours). To me SS destruction over a few hours seems more impressive than gremmy's feat. And if SS gets accepted as infinite (not sure) it will be straight 3A rating as far I'm aware.
 
Adam1396 said:
I think it does. As I have told you Gremmy's dimension seems tiny compared to SS. Yamamoto is just proficient in controlling his reatsu hence taking slow effects initially.

Do we have the size of Soul Society? As far we know it's mirror of our universe. Idk if it's infinite or not. And what bankai we saw being activated longest in battle. I can't remember any shinigami using it for more than 1 day after activation (it's probably a few hours). To me SS destruction over a few hours seems more impressive than gremmy's feat. And if SS gets accepted as infinite (not sure) it will be straight 3A rating as far I'm aware.
Click to expand...
Again, you thinking Gremmy’s feat is less impressive doesn’t make it actually less impressive. “It seems smaller” isn’t an argument, that’s an opinion which is fine, but it doesn’t prove anything
 
pretty sure instantenious 4-A feat is more impressive than overtime feat that we dont know if its burns entire SS (universe) or just its Ig planet or whatever place serieteri and other places are set on
Also i asked once but if you can you can calc the yamas feat but given unspecified timelapse its hard.
 
I used my Japanese knowledge to do this:

I hope you guys read everything.



VIZ kind of used its own interpretation, not saying mine is necessarily better, but that’s how I understood it. Askin never said “only Urahara”, he was referring more to the whole list, which is why it was recalled in full. In fact, Askin is one of the few characters who actually saw everyone on the list firsthand.

I believe this is also Kubo's intent, Zaraki is between the strongest ever and Narita followed Kubo's instruction.
 
I don't think Gremmy's Space feat is anything higher than 3-C tbh

That weird galaxy looking thing we saw pretty sure was just a star cluster no? Both in the manga and anime?
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
We see characters dodge ceros which in guides are composed of spiritual light, reishi is analogous to kishi so this wouldn’t make ceros no different from lasers
Click to expand...
Most of these are dodged trough aim dodging or shumpo/sonido
And i think just being called spiritual light isnt enough to qualify. (and theres the consistency part, source of guide being reliable etc etc)
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Again, you thinking Gremmy’s feat is less impressive doesn’t make it actually less impressive. “It seems smaller” isn’t an argument, that’s an opinion which is fine, but it doesn’t prove anything
Click to expand...
Ah.
I should rephrase that.
Destroying such large dimension over a few hours would likely yeild higher value.

But I would ask some calc stuff to check where it might scale.
Can you suggest anyone?
And do you have idea about who used bankai for longest time in single use?
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
I don't think Gremmy's Space feat is anything higher than 3-C tbh

That weird galaxy looking thing we saw pretty sure was just a star cluster no? Both in the manga and anime?
Click to expand...
No lol, it's a direct reference to a galaxy atleast in the manga
 
Adam1396 said:
Ah.
I should rephrase that.
Destroying such large dimension over a few hours would likely yeild higher value.

But I would ask some calc stuff to check where it might scale.
Can you suggest anyone?
And do you have idea about who used bankai for longest time in single use?
Click to expand...
It doesn’t likely yield a higher value. Extending equivalent generosity to both sides, it actually yields a lesser value.

What proof do you have that it would likely yield a higher value? You’ve said you think SS is bigger, but haven’t offered any evidence besides opinion.

Ichigo fought in a Bankai state for 2000 hours training with Zangetsu and White. Feel free to ask me your calc questions.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
It doesn’t likely yield a higher value. Extending equivalent generosity to both sides, it actually yields a lesser value.

What proof do you have that it would likely yield a higher value? You’ve said you think SS is bigger, but haven’t offered any evidence besides opinion.

Ichigo fought in a Bankai state for 2000 hours training with Zangetsu and White. Feel free to ask me your calc questions.
Click to expand...
May be not. I'm telling that from all that I know about math.

Wotl has galaxies. SS is mirror of that. We can calc that assuming the size of observable universe.

Ichigo is an anomally. That's the same ichigo who could sense transcendent aizen, got higher than reio husk level in that training, went through very special training.
 
Adam1396 said:
May be not. I'm telling that from all that I know about math.

Wotl has galaxies. SS is mirror of that. We can calc that assuming the size of observable universe.

Ichigo is an anomally. That's the same ichigo who could sense transcendent aizen, got higher than reio husk level in that training, went through very special training.
Click to expand...
I never said Ichigo is the norm.

I guess my question is this: you have Yama above Zaraki because you think Yama’s statement is more impressive than Gremmy’s feat right?
 
Adam1396 said:
May be not. I'm telling that from all that I know about math.

Wotl has galaxies. SS is mirror of that. We can calc that assuming the size of observable universe.
Click to expand...
Dude, stop. Using the same level of generosity for both feats, Yamamoto caps at 3-B (Wank 2h timeframe btw). and Gremmy caps at 3-A. Gremmy's feat is simply better in every way, and these are wanked numbers for both.

Obligatory disclaimer: I'm trash at calcs, but I think this one was fine.
 
Last edited:
Bastolan27 said:
Dude, stop. Using the same level of generosity for both feats, Yamamoto caps at 3-B (Wank 2h timeframe btw). and Gremmy caps at 3-A. Gremmy's feat is simply better in every way, and these are wanked numbers for both.

Obligatory disclaimer: I'm trash at calcs, but I think this one was fine.
Click to expand...
Gremmy one seems wank while not yamamoto's case. Idk if gremmy can get 3A. Wherever he scales, yamamoto would be above him anyway.
 
Personally, as a Kenpachi fan (as many of you may know on discord) I think the diff between Kenny and Yama comes down to hax. Kenny is an unga bunga slash kinda guy, he has better battle instincts alongside adaptability and CQC fighting, but Yama has the sauce. Shikai to Shikai, I'd argue Kenny ragdolls Yama without his eyepatch and probably is equal with, but he'd likely lose to hax going peak vs peak since Kenny's reiatsu isn't high enough to neg and he can't really compensate with range either.

CFYOW is obviously an entirely different story and Kenny wipes the floor with Yama 50 times over
 
ReaperAndBlues said:
Personally, as a Kenpachi fan (as many of you may know on discord) I think the diff between Kenny and Yama comes down to hax. Kenny is an unga bunga slash kinda guy, he has better battle instincts alongside adaptability and CQC fighting, but Yama has the sauce. Shikai to Shikai, I'd argue Kenny ragdolls Yama without his eyepatch and probably is equal with, but he'd likely lose to hax going peak vs peak since Kenny's reiatsu isn't high enough to neg and he can't really compensate with range either.

CFYOW is obviously an entirely different story and Kenny wipes the floor with Yama 50 times over
Click to expand...
In my opinion, I dunno if any captain and non blutt user can survive his bankai in close proximity.
It seems most of them won't survive even in a distance if yamamoto descides to not care about destruction, unleashes fully.

For zaraki I do believe he can slice yamamoto in half from far before dying.
 
Adam1396 said:
In my opinion, I dunno if any captain and non blutt user can survive his bankai in close proximity.
Click to expand...
That's the funny part, I don't think so either. Ironically the best chance might be Toshiro. Ichigo could beat Bankai Yama since he can resist ZnT with Blut, but again, that's with Blut.
 
No that statement in CFYOW is a common Japanese idiom. It’s not meant to be taken literally at all. It just doesn’t translate well into English, but the point of it is to just highlight Grimmjow is being recklessly destructive. It does not mean he’s literally going to destroy the sun lol
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No that statement in CFYOW is a common Japanese idiom. It’s not meant to be taken literally at all. It just doesn’t translate well into English, but the point of it is to just highlight Grimmjow is being recklessly destructive. It does not mean he’s literally going to destroy the sun lol
Click to expand...
Man. Help me with the what raw word being used here 😆
Does its translation relate to "infiltration" or "entry". That would be great help and work as supportive evidence.

vsbattles.com

Askin minor revision

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Askin_Nakk_Le_Vaar In Askin's profile his Gift Bereich has sealing since it's inescapable. But it mentions people with dimensional travel can enter or exit which is incorrect. Urahara agrees with inescapable part and explicitely mentions he needed to open a...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Adam1396 said:
Man. Help me with the what raw word being used here 😆
Does its translation relate to "infiltration" or "entry". That would be great help and work as supportive evidence.

vsbattles.com

Askin minor revision

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Askin_Nakk_Le_Vaar In Askin's profile his Gift Bereich has sealing since it's inescapable. But it mentions people with dimensional travel can enter or exit which is incorrect. Urahara agrees with inescapable part and explicitely mentions he needed to open a...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
Send me the word if you can, or if not remind me over the weekend (watching the DMC anime rn)
 
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