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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Qawsedf234 said:
IIRC, she just dies from trying to copy it, and her other copied abilities were weaker than the original. She can copy stuff, but it's still limited to her Reiatsu. I wouldn't put her that high for the same reason that Royd shouldn't be topping most lists.
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Agreed. Cus the same is said for Tokinada, he can copy Ryujin Jakka or Kyoka Suigetsu, but since his Reiryoku isn't anywhere near as high as them. It's not as powerful
 
Her power was mistaken for something that was around the level of Muken Aizen or Hogyoku Aizen, though I haven't read the novel itself (and also don't know Japanese so I'm unsure how properly it's translated) so it really depends on how reliable of a source Cien is. It does seem like he knows about Aizen when he fused with the Hogyoku and he does know what Mugetsu is, so that gives his words some weight.
She also doesn't die from using it, she just suffers severe damage that would normally kill most people in Bleach. She puts herself back together right after using it, so yeah.
Whether or not this makes her that powerful and how close her copy is in strength (I'm pretty sure it's not 1-1 based on her statements) is I guess up to interpertation.
 
The fact the no one said Orihime is crazy 💀
Orihime is tier 0 of the verse 😁
E-Ib_vkWEAg3FSH.jpg:large
ujobxleua8691.jpg
 
For everyone asking, Roca scales that high not because of mugetsu but because of the fact that the power she used to create the mugetsu was mistaken for being post hygoku aizen's power instead of ichigo's. So while her mugetsu isn't on ichigo's level, it is comparable to post hygoku fusion Aizen which still puts her that high.
 
Specterxxxx said:
So while her mugetsu isn't on ichigo's level, it is comparable to post hygoku fusion Aizen which still puts her that high.
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Being auto-destroyed by one slash that is baseline Aizen fusion level still isn't that good in my view. Cien managed to live long enough from the attack to teleport away and he's (roughly) as strong or 50% of the strength of a Full Hollowified Ichigo.
 
Lille and askin should be higher on list most people can’t even deal with them Lille should be above jugram or is this ap scaling?
Specterxxxx said:
Including cyfow, I guess it would be

  1. Prime soul king
  2. Ichigo
  3. Yhwach
  4. Aizen
  5. Kenpachi Zaraki
  6. Ikomikimodoe
  7. Hikone
  8. Ginjou
  9. Roka (safwy)
  10. Jugram
  11. Uryu
  12. Ichibei
  13. Senjumaru, Tenjiro, Oetsu, hikifune
  14. Gerard
  15. Mature Toshiro
  16. Renji(lowkey don't see how he is stronger than yamamoto tho)
  17. Yamamoto
  18. Gremmy
  19. Pernida
  20. Urahara
Random shot at the dark, this would be my top 20, I think it's an accurate ranking unless I missed anybody else
Click to expand...
 
Lille is absolutely not above Jugram, as he easily upscales from Uryu. Who could contend with casual Bankai Senjumaru (True Power Squad 0)
 
Specterxxxx said:
For everyone asking, Roca scales that high not because of mugetsu but because of the fact that the power she used to create the mugetsu was mistaken for being post hygoku aizen's power instead of ichigo's. So while her mugetsu isn't on ichigo's level, it is comparable to post hygoku fusion Aizen which still puts her that high.
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How could they know Post Hōgyoku Aizen power when they can't even sense him?
 
Excellence616 said:
How could they know Post Hōgyoku Aizen power when they can't even sense him?
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Traces of reiatsu from transcedentals can still be sensed. Just like how Isshin could sense 3rd hf aizen's traces of reiatsu even if he was unable to sense Aizen's reiatsu since the 2nd fusion
 
DragonZeroNova said:
Yeah, I just don't know how much weaker.
Click to expand...
A lot. Cien stated that Roka's copy abilities are limited, in fact, he explicitly affirmed that even if she copied Cien himself, she couldn’t match his power, meaning what she copies is ultimately tied to her own energy. However, the Mugetsu was an exceptional boost as it was for ichigo, and she was almost dying after using it, so I believe that for a brief moment, she managed to surpass her usual limits and reach a power high enough to kill him.

Still, this was nowhere near the real Mugetsu. It should be contextualized that everything Roka did is likely still within the range of Cien-level power overall, howeevr this prove Roka herself is much stronger than any other Espada
 
ItsMeat said:
I mean, his hax alone makes him one of the 4 bleach characters that would beat the likes of goku in a fight even if we restrict things like soul crush
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So whether he can beat Goku or not is related to Crossverse. Yamamoto is stronger than Lille but he still can't beat Goku but Lille can beat Goku with hax.
 
Some text extract from SAFWY, I think this should confirms Mugetsu is not just a vertical cut, but as shown in the anime it crumbles away and disintegrate the whole body, and the difference of power between Aizen and Ichigo might even be greater, while Cien and Roka where somehow comparable, then Roka got this immense boost, Ichigo was already stronger than Aizen and even boosted himself way more with Final Getsuga Tenshō.

また、あの甘美な殺し合いの——「死匂」に塗れた舞踏を……。
どこかに向かって手を伸ばした所で、彼はその指先が崩壊していくのを感じとった。
皮膚の表面が次々と霊子が零れ落ち、舌から赤い肉の色が覗き始める。
——待て、待ってくれ。僕は、必ずまた殺し合うと誓ったんだ。
Click to expand...
As he reached his hand out toward somewhere, he felt the fingertips beginning to disintegrate.
The surface of his skin steadily shed reishi, and from his tongue, the color of red flesh began to peek through. Wait, wait for me. I swore I would definitely fight to the death with you again.

「……僕は、僕はまだ、死ねないは……駄々を捏ねる子供のような表情で、声にならない叫びをあげるシエンだが——そんな言葉に惑わされる事なく、暗闇は滅びの歌を歌い続け——シエンを包みこむ「死」は、ゆっくりと彼の身体を崩壊させていった。暗い場所から生まれた狂気を、再び暗い場所へと還す為に。ロカは、かろうじて生きていた。あの力を発動させた後、具体的に何が起きたのかは解らない。ただ、周囲にはもう何も残っていない、という事だけは理解できた。散在していた斬魄の瓦礫はもはや、一つも残っておらず、辺りには、砂が流れる音だけが響き渡っている。
Click to expand...
“…I still can’t die yet…”
With a face like a child throwing a tantrum, Cien let out a voiceless scream, but the darkness paid no heed to such words and continued to sing its song of destruction.
The “death” that enveloped Cien progressively broke down his body, in order to return the madness born from darkness back to darkness once more.

Roka was barely alive.
She didn’t know exactly what had happened after unleashing that power.
All she could understand was that nothing was left in the surroundings anymore.
The scattered rubble of the Zanpakutō was now completely gone,
and throughout the area, only the sound of flowing sand echoed.
 
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