BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[AppleLord]

Anyone gotten to that point in a debate and is brought up that Genjutsu will work on Aizen because he has zero illusion resistances? I found this cool counter-argument that follows and tries to a peace that argument:

Aizen has a specific affinity to Genjutsu because of…

The Hogyoku.

Very easy to understand, Aizen is fused with two minds:


Aizen has subjugated and is fused with not only the Hogyoku, but his own Zanpakuto (he actually has three minds) but nonetheless we’ll focus on these two.

Let’s assume Sasuke puts Aizen into a Genjutsu. What happens?

Is being in a Genjutsu worse than let’s say, having your brain destroyed?


Aizen had his brain destroyed (on panel) and the Hogyoku still responded to his innate will and regenerated him.

Why?

1. The Hogyoku realises the innate deep desires in the hearts of the users, NOT their minds.


It reads the heart and acts accordingly.

2. The Hogyoku has the ability to complete remake and replace the soul, grant powers on a whim, and increase the users power even while being sealed.


3. The Hogyoku acts of it’s own accord, and has its own mind (i’ll reiterate)


As is indicated from this, Aizen didn’t ‘wish’ or ‘hope’ for a powerup, the Hogyoku simply granted it because that was his innate desire, without him thinking it.

Here, again the Hogyoku fused Aizen with his Zanpakuto on a whim:


And Aizen only lost because he innately wanted to weaken himself has he had finally found an equal:


Did you catch it yet?

The Hogyoku can simply remake and restructure Aizen’s soul and brain if he is put into Genjutsu and sealed, making him even stronger, or just teleport him outside any seal.

Sasuke has no way to restrict the power of Aizen to his body like Mayuri or Urahara, or weaken him in any significant way because he is fodder.

Sasuke uses Genjutsu? He cannot Genjutsu the Hogyoku, meaning the Hogyoku can simply realise the desires of Aizen (which do not disappear even if he has no brain or even if he is erased) and restructure his brain and soul.

Aizen reemerges and does what he was always going to do, flatten Sasuke and the Narutoverse.

Now, since we have evidence of the Hogyoku both replacing Aizen‘s soul and brain, someone try to explain why the Hogyoku cannot break Aizen out of Genjutsu by doing so?

What do you guys think?

 

[Adam1396]

Anyone gotten to that point in a debate and is brought up that Genjutsu will work on Aizen because he has zero illusion resistances?

Most bleach relevant spiritual entities should neg naruto mind hax. Bleach mind hax seems more potent and passed much better defense.
Aizen is top inthis business within bleach. He would neg, if not satisfied he would overcome genjutsu by better mind hax.

What do you guys think?

These are cool arguments about hogyoku and I totally agree with the point about how aizen lost.
I don't remember the statement about soul replacement. But it probably happened when aizen was wiped out by his own reatsu??

 

[Bastolan27]

What do you guys think?

Wouldn't the simplest argument be that since you can't trap a perfect jinchuriki in a genjutsu because the bijuu will break them out, then shinigami, who have a zanpakuto, can dispel genjutsu? It makes sense—they share a soul but not a mind.

Heck, you could argue that since a disruption in the chakra flow is what breaks people out of genjutsu, the way reiatsu and reiryoku work or flow in Bleach would inherently dispel all Bleach characters from genjutsu.

 

[KingogKings777]

Anyone gotten to that point in a debate and is brought up that Genjutsu will work on Aizen because he has zero illusion resistances? I found this cool counter-argument that follows and tries to a peace that argument:



What do you guys think?

Doesn't have chakra so it wouldn't work in the first place and he could just overpower it if you use that one scan from the question book.

 

[AppleLord]

yeach I agree.. this argument that I saw was just given them the benefit of the doubt lol

 

[AnimesFreak2]

.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

A DEFORMATION OF CONCEPTS AND A DEFORMATION OF REALITY (Morris vs Gremmy )

Morris Libardirt Vs Gremmy Thoumeaux SBA Both high 6-A Speed =

vsbattles.com

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Anyone gotten to that point in a debate and is brought up that Genjutsu will work on Aizen because he has zero illusion resistances? I found this cool counter-argument that follows and tries to a peace that argument:



What do you guys think?

I think Aizen will want to get out of here while in genjutsu and the hogyoku will make it happen.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Doesn't have chakra so it wouldn't work in the first place and he could just overpower it if you use that one scan from the question book.

When the universe equalization, don't haxes like Genjutsu have an effect on those in another universe?

 

[Excellence616]

When the universe equalization, don't haxes like Genjutsu have an effect on those in another universe?

Yep

 

[Robo432343]

bro

Tier 1 Bleach real | Fandom

So in Bleach there exists something called the…

all-fiction-battles.fandom.com

tier 1 bleach on vsbw??

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

 

[Adam1396]

bro

Tier 1 Bleach real | Fandom

So in Bleach there exists something called the…

all-fiction-battles.fandom.com

tier 1 bleach on vsbw??

It's on all fiction. Anyway have mentioned that before garganta being any less than 2A doesn't make sense. Very clear difference between God tiers and 2C Squad Zero.

I also said arc7 the thing about hyperdimension before. Totally missed hyperdimension having it's own temporal dimension. Space in hyperdimension is fundamentally different than 3D space which is clear for dangai. Again nothing going to be changed until tybw cour 3, cosmology is revised

 

[Robo432343]

It's on all fiction

yes i know

tier 0 bleach

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Adam fundamentally doesn’t understand what a hyperdimension is, so don’t put your stocks in Garganta being 2-A

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It's on all fiction. Anyway have mentioned that before garganta being any less than 2A doesn't make sense. Very clear difference between God tiers and 2C Squad Zero.

I also said arc7 the thing about hyperdimension before. Totally missed hyperdimension having it's own temporal dimension. Space in hyperdimension is fundamentally different than 3D space which is clear for dangai. Again nothing going to be changed until tybw cour 3, cosmology is revised

Garganta being atleast 2-A only works on AFBW because they have more sensible standards regarding infinitely bigger than timelines. On here it wouldn't work at all.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Hear me out..
Layering soul crush is a bad idea because then we will have even less matchups
Instead layer other abilities that arent passives

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Soul crush already gets restricted in pm every bleach match up that it shows up in anyway

 

[Hellscream]

It's quite simple garganta is infinitely larger compared to an infinite amount of pocket dimensions that are inside of it, which is directly stated, the human world, hueco mundo, soul society etc.

And there are statements of there being infinite pocket dimensions inside of the garganta, and garganta itself being infinite as well (infinitely larger than these infinite pocket dimensions), along with it being infinitely larger than 4-D constructs such as the Dangai, real world etc etc

it qualifies for being hyperspace, as 4-d constructs are infinitesmal inside of the garganta which automatically means it has an extra dimensional axis, also considering it's actually been called hyperspace

so yes, dangai is easily 5D

Funnily enough, multiple verses in VSBW are tier 1 for the same reasoning

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Soul crush already gets restricted in pm every bleach match up that it shows up in anyway

Soul crush can be restricted???

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Soul crush can be restricted???

Yeah, but the match won’t count on the profiles lol. Honestly, restrictions being unable to be added to profiles is lame. It should be allowed just note it on the profile like this:

Notable Losses:

Byakuya Kuchiki (TYBW Key was used, Soul Crush restricted)

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Layering soul crush is a bad idea because then we will have even less matchups

 

[Hellscream]

It's either Yhwach stomps or gets stomped, always been like that

My man just needs more hax

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

More hax like he isn’t a composite Quincy/Sternritter bro doesn’t need more hax, he’s plenty haxed.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Ichigo needs more, we all try legal hax on the back and the boy has almost nothing but raw power.

EDIT: Of course, he has the thing about being kind of all races, but I'm talking about more individual things and not race.

 

[Hellscream]

More hax like he isn’t a composite Quincy/Sternritter bro doesn’t need more hax, he’s plenty haxed.

Blud gets stomped by a ton of characters so idk if you can say that he's plenty haxed

He's strong for sure, but idk if he's top tier

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

More hax like he isn’t a composite Quincy/Sternritter bro doesn’t need more hax, he’s plenty haxed.

good luck arguing he uses them in character

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m not upset over Yhwach not being the strongest character in fiction… idc that there are stronger characters goofy ahh goobers

 

[Hellscream]

All im saying is that he's strong, but could definetly be a lot stronger

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That’s applicable to pm any and every single character in fiction yeah dude [insert character here] is strong but they could be stronger

 

[Hellscream]

Not really comparable, not every character has a wall of hax like Yhwach does

Im only referring to what's currently accepted on his profile in VSBW

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

All you said was he’s strong but could be stronger. That statement is such a broad sweeping generalization, it just loses meaning. No character has every single hax in existence, so any character could always get a lot stronger, even if they’re already strong. Like that revelation is a giant nothing burger.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

All im saying is that he's strong, but could definetly be a lot stronger

brain rot

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

yhwach is already so busted in verse that they had to pull up the bullshit plot device to defeat him.

 

[Hellscream]

man im obviously talking about his current state on VSBW.

Im not talking about him getting imaginary shit just for the case of him being stronger or whatever.
I've been talking about hax that he has, but that simply isn't on his profile.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

We know Hellman’s mayo, our criticisms of your nothing burger of a statement hold nonetheless.

 

[Hellscream]

Layered hax, 4-D hax are perfect examples.

Information type 2 hax etc

 

[Hellscream]

We know Hellman’s mayo, our criticisms of your nothing burger of a statement hold nonetheless.

don't care tbh

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

don't care tbh

Clearly

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

only thing im hoping for is that ichigo has some sort of fate hax, resistance or acausality to counter yhwach (since that'd be cool AF) or the arrow bit being a bit less BS.