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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Bastolan27 said:
Can someone help me with a few scans, I need the Following

1.SS is a parallel world to WoL
2.Hueco Mundo
The dimension housing the Hollows. is a dimension with an endless night and a moon in the sky.
3. Time also flows differently in the Garganta
4. The soul king stabilizes the worlds
5. SAFWY Uchu statement
6. scans that reference the real world in WoL, Superman, DBZ, and Coldplay?
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Bastolan27 said:
Bump
Click to expand...
Endless night
tumblr_p4x0tlXCfW1wsd0h0o2_540.png
 
And I found this about the worlds being parallel to each other, which again I don't know how reliable it is 🤷
AppleLord said:
The must important event is why didn’t Earth and the humans felt the “planets” moving to their original place? Surely, removing Earth from the sun and moon orbit would had caused some problems. The world would had gone dark with no moonlight or stars.

In the light novels we are given the reaction of how some humans created a cult religion base on the earthquakes caused by the Soul King’s death.

This was a small earthquake that lasted too long. Now pulling away planets instead of universes would had cause a huge impact on the planet, but if it was on the universe we wouldn’t had seem the effects from Earth in the movie or manga.

@Reio35 found this below 👇

image0.png


戸魂界と現世は、それぞれ別個に独立して存在する並列世界である。その異世界の間を行き来するために用いられるのがこの「穿界門」である。その通行の際には、死神のみが携行可能なせんかいもんじごくちょう黒い趨を持つ墓「地獄蝶」が必要とされる。
The Soul Society and this world are parallel worlds that exist separately and independently. It is this "Kaikaimon" that is used to go back and forth between the different worlds. When passing through, a grave "Hell Butterfly" with a black sword that only the god of death can carry is required.

They exists independently which means their dimensions
Click to expand...
 
Lynieryz said:
Why do you need this -_- and I'm sure it would be three different scans because these references didn't happen in the same chapter.
Click to expand...
I will send the page to you if you want to read it. It's pretty similar to the other Bleach Cosmology page since I used it as an outline.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Why is "world" being taken as universe btw?
Click to expand...

Sekai
​

A final thing to note is the usage of the word sekai in regards to the realms:

  • Here Urahara says: 尸魂界は魂魄の世界…
    • This translates to “Soul Society is the sekai of souls…” and is from chapter 70 when Urahara is explaining the reishi converter prior to sending the gang to save Rukia.
  • Here Urahara says: この世界の崩壊を防ぐために。
    • This translates to “to defend against the collapse of this sekai” and is from chapter 45 when Urahara is explaining why the Shinigami slaughtered the Quincy, with “this sekai” referring to their current setting of the story, World of the Living.
  • Kisuke is someone who we discover at the end of the Deicide chapters is aware of the Soul King and its purpose. As one of the smartest characters in the verse his information should be one of the most credible pieces out there.
  • Here Aizen’s purpose of fusing with the Hogyoku is elaborated upon as follows: 藍染は霊王になり代わり、新しい世界を創造する。
    • This translates to “Aizen sought to become the Soul King, to create a new sekai.” We know Aizen is aware of what Reio’s existence really means, as well as knowing the true nature of the Hogyoku from the start gives credence to Aizen being aware of what Reio can do. Aizen is the self-proclaimed second smartest guy outside of Urahara, with showings to back it up, he should be very reliable.
  • Here Askin says: 世界を3つも潰してその後に何かを創るうとしてる
  • This translates to “Crushing 3 sekai and afterwards constructing something else” where the 3 sekai in question are World of the Living, Soul Society, and Hueco Mundo. Askin referring to Yhwach’s plan, we know Askin is a reliable source as he bore witness to Yhwach consuming Reio and is part of the Elite Stern Ritter
  • (Sekai) can mean either society, world, or universe.
  • Universe is commonly defined as everything that comprises existence within the cosmos. This is the last definition of sekai and the only one that isn’t directly refuted by what we are told within the manga. This means that the most accurate translation for sekai when referring to the realms is universe, as per VSBW standards, being called a universe by reliable sources (Kisuke, Aizen, and Askin are all reliable sources) is enough justification for universal size.
Click to expand...
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Why is "world" being taken as universe btw?
Click to expand...
There are multiple reasons for the realms being universes, such as Tenchi and Uchu. Sekai is just another one. I recommend reading the WoL, SS, and Sankai sections.
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Why is hell taken as having 5 different space-time continuums though? That's kinda unproven even with hell being called "multiple worlds" or multiverse
Click to expand...
The above translates to: Hell is, consisting of several layers of varying aspects, a "multiverse". Where 多重世界 specifically is in reference to Everett's many-worlds interpretation, also called multiverse theory. This meaning that in the movie each layer of Hell is a universe.
Click to expand...
 
Bastolan27 said:
There are multiple reasons for the realms being universes, such as Tenchi and Uchu. Sekai is just another one. I recommend reading the WoL, SS, and Sankai sections.
Click to expand...
Multiverses aren't always spatio temporally disconnected on this wiki and infact it's taken as a default they aren't spatio-temporally disconnected. At best I'd say hell is 1 space-time with 5 universe sized dimensions.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Multiverses aren't always spatio temporally disconnected on this wiki and infact it's taken as a default they aren't spatio-temporally connected. At best I'd say hell is 1 space-time with 5 universe sized dimensions.
Click to expand...
Everything called a universe in Bleach so far is its own space-time. It would be disingenuous to say that this is the exception. Also, when referring to Multiverse theory, instead of just saying multiple universes, it's kinda obvious it's referring to space-times.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Everything called a universe in Bleach so far is its own space-time. It would be disingenuous to say that this is the exception. Also, when referring to Multiverse theory, instead of just saying multiple universes, it's kinda obvious it's referring to space-times.
Click to expand...
No not really obvious. Also I disagree with blanketing the term sekai to literally always mean space-time in the series. The kanji doesn't really exactly align with kanji of multiverse theory either.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Multiverses aren't always spatio temporally disconnected on this wiki and infact it's taken as a default they aren't spatio-temporally disconnected. At best I'd say hell is 1 space-time with 5 universe sized dimensions.
Click to expand...

Space-Time Continuums
​

Isshin states that Soul Society and World of the Living are split by a separate space-time. Giriko and CFYOW II, confirms that general relativity is canon to Bleach, further supporting the realms being space-times. When Yukio appears in front of Ginjo in CFYOW II, it confirms again that Bleach cosmology has space-time. The Garganta is stated to be a space-time, and the Dangai too. Since the World of the Living and the Soul Society are separated by two space-time boundaries, each one of them is a space-time on its own. The parallel worlds are separated by a barrier/boundary/the Garganta from the rest of the worlds. This would mean that the Bleach: Brave Souls universe houses several space-times, specifically 15. 13 Being universal in size, 1 Being infinite, and 1 with an unknown size.
Click to expand...

Garganta
​

A dimension of Reishi that houses all the dimensions in Bleach'. It is the space between all dimensions and exists around them all. The World of the living lies inside of it alongside all the other dimensions.

Garganta is as being a void of turbulent reishi, that features spaces of reishi called kyogoku (Valley of Screams).

Here is a hypothetical diagram of it and the entire cosmology: [1]

It should be noted garganta is not outer space.

The Garganta is devoid of stars since it literally possess only reishi. It's a void of turbulent reishi, its described as only having random torrents of Reiatsu floating around.

Garganta is a separate dimension from the other dimensions that you can't physically travel too. For example, you can't fly off Soul Society into space and enter Garganta. You need to open a dimensional portal to it.

Time also flows differently in the Garganta.

Size​

Aura monologues on page 396 of CFYOW III in the Japanese version: "無限に広がる黒腔の中を彷徨い続け"

無限に is a common phrase regarding 無限 (the kanji for infinite/infinity), in which it means to infinite or to infinity.

広がる is the verb to extend/to spread/to fill out. To extend obviously being a verb used to describe the size of something.

黒腔の中 means inside the Garganta, 黒腔 = Garganta, 中 = inside where の connects inside to Garganta.

を is a verb particle, 彷徨い続け means to prowl, prowl meaning wandering around usually with some sort of intent.

Japanese sentence structure is inverse from English. So together you have Aura monologue: "To prowl within the Garganta spreading/extending to infinity" in a more clean English sounding translation you might see it as "Wandering inside the infinite Garganta". The point remains the same that in the expository monologue, Aura states that the Garganta spreads out/extends to/ fills out to an infinite distance.

The English version says Garganta is an endless expanse.

The fan translation says it is an infinite black cavity.

So, in essence, Garganta may be either infinite in size or infinitely expanding, but there's another scan that can be used to prove that it's infinite. This scan from Bleach Movie 2 clearly states that there are an infinite number of dimensions within the Garganta, meaning that it has to be infinite.

Purpose of Garganta​

Garganta serves as the boundary made by the soul king that divides the worlds. This event is shown here: [2]

Without the boundary, the cosmology will collapse as primordial soup. This is consistent with the statement that the Garganta would be gone if the soul king died, since it stabilizes the worlds and its death meant the collapse of everything.

CFYOW II also mentions that the earthquake nearly destroyed the boundaries, which when combined with Ganju’s statement on the Garganta adds further credence to the Garganta being that boundary. As without Reio, there can be no Garganta, and without Reio the boundary began to collapse.

Given the Garganta's property as connecting the dimensions together and surrounding them all, it's obvious with the context of the destruction of the worlds and dimensions that the Garganta would also fall too as it's a connecting factor. It is the boundary.

Lastly, it is stated that Garganta serves as a protection for Kyogoku (Reishi space dimensions within it), meaning Garganta serves to protect dimensions, which is the purpose of the boundary in this scenario.
Click to expand...
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
No not really obvious. Also I disagree with blanketing the term sekai to literally always mean space-time in the series. The kanji doesn't really exactly align with kanji of multiverse theory either.
Click to expand...

Why are you focusing on "sekai"? It's not even the main argument; it's just a supporting one. Also, if you look up 多重世界, it literally redirects you to the Multiverse theory page. Read the whole blog in its entirety instead of just skimming through it.

I'm not saying "sekai" always means space-times; I'm saying "universe" means space-times, as there is not a single exception in the verse.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Why are you focusing on "sekai"? It's not even the main argument; it's just a supporting one. Also, if you look up 多重世界, it literally redirects you to the Multiverse theory page. Read the whole blog in its entirety instead of just skimming through it.

I'm not saying "sekai" always means space-times; I'm saying "universe" means space-times, as there is not a single exception in the verse.
Click to expand...
I didn't skim through anything. Also about it redirecting to multiverse theory page search up "Multiple worlds" and for the japanese it's the same but in japanese instead and you'll get what I mean. It's not explicitly referring to such and you can't use a google search as proof either.

I heavily disagree with hell having 5 space-times and the other arguments do not influence my opinion nor do I think they should.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
I didn't skim through anything. Also about it redirecting to multiverse theory page search up "Multiple worlds" and for the japanese it's the same but in japanese instead and you'll get what I mean. It's not explicitly referring to such and you can't use a google search as proof either.

I heavily disagree with hell having 5 space-times and the other arguments do not influence my opinion nor do I think they should.
Click to expand...

You claiming 多重世界, in this context, is not separate universes. On top of it being semantics, it also requires more assumptions since you are claiming this to be the only exception in a cosmology that already holds multiple space-times.

Now, please provide me with an argument that doesn't rely on the notion that "multiverse" doesn't always mean multiverse.
 
Bastolan27 said:
You claiming 多重世界, in this context, is not separate universes. On top of it being semantics, it also requires more assumptions since you are claiming this to be the only exception in a cosmology that already holds multiple space-times.
Click to expand...
ok buddy
"this cosmology holds multiple space-times so everything must be a different space-time!"
Not how it works. This is proof by example.

You're claiming that
多重世界
Click to expand...
refers to everetts MWI when that requires actual direct proof instead of a mention of multiple worlds. It's like someone saying "There are multiple worlds" and taking that as proof as MWI when if it was MWI in the first place it'd have to have atleast countless universes.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
ok buddy
"this cosmology holds multiple space-times so everything must be a different space-time!"
Not how it works. This is proof by example.

You're claiming that

refers to everetts MWI when that requires actual direct proof instead of a mention of multiple worlds. It's like someone saying "There are multiple worlds" and taking that as proof as MWI when if it was MWI in the first place it'd have to have atleast countless universes.
Click to expand...
A crt was made for this, I think the conversation should be taken there to have some productivity.
 
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