Bai Xiaochun vs Li Qiye

[Nepuko]

Huh, didn't notice that his Archean was 4-A as well. Could swear he fought Quasi-Sovereigns, oh well.
It can be Archean, yeah.

Talking about that....he probably can fight Quasi-Sovereign no? As peak Archaean. :thonk:

Though we can make him "At least 4-A. Likely 3-B, at most Low 2-C" at worst I guess >_>

 

[InfiniteSped]

He was a mummy that was giving life to all of reality while the quasi-sovereigns appeared.

And in that case Bai probably has a pretty big AP advantage. Recreating thousands of worlds that are ErGen sized sounds far superior to his own AP rating.

I'm not sure if him recreating those worlds would work for AP, but, yeah, given a late Archean lvl power plus the AWWP stuff, I believe he just wins in AP.

For Round 1, Bai should win handily just with suppression.

For Round 2, I can see the Emperor Seal beating him if he goes for mind stuff, and Li would be able to bring up his Immortal Emperor attacks and defenses, so I'd give an edge to Li in this one.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'm not sure if him recreating those worlds would work for AP, but, yeah, given a late Archean lvl power plus the AWWP stuff, I believe he just wins in AP.

For Round 1, Bai should win handily just with suppression.

For Round 2, I can see the Emperor Seal beating him if he goes for mind stuff, and Li would be able to bring up his Immortal Emperor attacks and defenses, so I'd give an edge to Li in this one.

I mean, he is using his own life energy to do that stuff.

Idk Li Qiye, so can't say for sure if he wins or not for second round. But without the AP for it he probably gets the same treatment most people get when facing a far stronger opponent and just gets crushed by aura.

 

[InfiniteSped]

He has Mid-Godly regen that gives him resistance to attacks the more he's hit, so he can probably withstand the pressure enough to pull his Emperor Items. From there, it's just 3-B attack spam.

 

[Nepuko]

> In-verse, higher AP lets you bitch slap laws. For other verses, the only issue would be to interact with laws physically, which is something Li can do.

Sure, but it can't be equated to cultivation realms with the same AP in Ergenverse, because it's another power system (._.). He can bitchslap laws, but he won't be "Quasi-Dao level bitchslapping". ED =/= Er Gen


> If it's the universe's law, then everyone and their mothers in ED can do so, "Universal Laws" are manipulated and destroyed all the time. The infinite universes and spaces thing wasn't added to any profile yet, I believe, and you even said it was Dao Realm lvl stuff, so it shouldn't matter here.

Then Li Qiye's feat you linked above dosen't really matter if everyone and their mothers can bitchslap the Universe's Law. Though at some point in Er Gen everyone can screw over natural alws too.

Also, it was destroying said universe that is Dao realm-level, and not rejecting the laws from said universe.


> He created the law that dictated the 13 Fate Palaces being the Nirvana Heavens, the older law existed in all those universes, so I assume it was changed in all of them, with the context given. Even just 1 universe should be enough.

It dosen't really matter though since they can reject the Law of the universe(also a universe with galaxies and stuff in it). And if you say that "this is a super duper law that bypass said law of the universe in ED", then in Er Gen the same happens with higher cultivators forcing their super laws on them, and other ones forcing theirs on those, all in the same realm.

So yea, still should work against Li.

 

[Nepuko]

>He has Mid-Godly regen that gives him resistance to attacks the more he's hit, so he can probably withstand the pressure enough to pull his Emperor Items. From there, it's just 3-B attack spam.

If Li Qiye manages to not be crushed with Bai's aura and want to pull those items, Bai's danger sensing would have long since warned him of that and he'll pull out everything. And a lot of trump cards in his arsenal seal the opponent. Also, Immeasurable Speed.

Though what stops him from getting crushed by Bai's passive aura doe. Said aura also reduces his stats, leaves him immobilized, etc

 

[InfiniteSped]

If the level of bitch slapping is determined by AP, then it's entirely possible to just equate it to a comparable realm.

I believe there's a difference here. You can change the law of the universe around you, that's easy, most Er Gen or ED people do it. But changing the law around the entire universe, that's very different.

It's like resisting being inside a fire that covers a city vs setting a city on fire. The former just requires resisting the fire around you a bit, while the latter requires a fire powerful enough to cover the whole city. The usual law stuff is the former, while what Li did is the latter.

Rejecting a law from a universe with infinite spaces shouldn't matter unless you're actually changing the laws throughout all those spaces, which I don't think they are?

 

[InfiniteSped]

>He has Mid-Godly regen that gives him resistance to attacks the more he's hit, so he can probably withstand the pressure enough to pull his Emperor Items. From there, it's just 3-B attack spam.

If Li Qiye manages to not be crushed with Bai's aura and want to pull those items, Bai's danger sensing would have long since warned him of that and he'll pull out everything. And a lot of trump cards in his arsenal seal the opponent. Also, Immeasurable Speed.

Though what stops him from getting crushed by Bai's passive aura doe. Said aura also reduces his stats, leaves him immobilized, etc

Li can pull the Emperor Blessings with a thought, so it's just a matter of doing that. If Bai pulls his stuff at the same time, then Li wins since his is just stronger

 

[Nepuko]

> If the level of bitch slapping is determined by AP, then it's entirely possible to just equate it to a comparable realm.

In ED, yes. Inter-verse, no. For reasons above >_>. The level of bitchslapping in ED is determined by AP. In Er Gen, it's by cultivation. Cultivation which happens to have said AP. So saying that they have the same AP hence the same cultivation level with all the perks that comes via being in Er Gen-verse is a big leap in logic and fallacious.


> It's like resisting being inside a fire that covers a city vs setting a city on fire. The former just requires resisting the fire around you a bit, while the latter requires a fire powerful enough to cover the whole city. The usual law stuff is the former, while what Li did is the latter. It's meaningless to have the ability to set the city on fire if your opponent can resist that. Which is what happens in your exemple. So it dosen't matter if Li can cover a city on fire, if cultivators weaker than Bai were shown to shrug the fire off while also making that fire their own.


Regardless, Essence >>> Laws.


> Li can pull the Emperor Blessings with a thought, so it's just a matter of doing that. If Bai pulls his stuff at the same time, then Li wins since his is just stronger

idk what Emperor's Blessing is. But if it's something dangerous to Bai, he'll sense it ahead of time and react faster. Especially if he pulls off Godkiller.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Both work similarly enough. Equalizatio.

I'm aware, that's to show Li's own Law Manip and how Bai's wouldn't be able to do much, since his is already better, from what I can tell.

Emperor Blessing are those seals in his mind and soul. Bai would have to insta-incap Li in a way that stops him from thinking, without attacking his mind and activating the Emperor Blessings by default.

And I'd like those Godkiller quotes if you have them. >_>

 

[Nepuko]

> Both work similarly enough. Equalizatio.

It dosen't work like that though......ED's Qi won't suddenly gain the properties of disrupting nuclear fusion and fission just because it's a cultivation novel like Er Gen's. Same thing for haxes and resistances. Equalization only makes the energies able to interact, and makes Chakra able to interact with DBZ Ki or smthing.

> I'm aware, that's to show Li's own Law Manip and how Bai's wouldn't be able to do much, since his is already better, from what I can tell.

That disproves nothing doe.

It dosen't really matter though since they can reject the Law of the universe(a universe with galaxies and stuff in it). And if you say that "this is a super duper law that bypass said law of the universe in ED", then in Er Gen the same happens with higher cultivators forcing their super laws on them, and other ones forcing theirs on those, all in the same realm.
So yea, still should work against Li.

And once more, Essence power >>>>> Laws. So regardless he gets affected by Bai's trump cards.

> Emperor Blessing are those seals in his mind and soul. Bai would have to insta-incap Li in a way that stops him from thinking, without attacking his mind and activating the Emperor Blessings by default.

With the AP gap between them, what stops Li from getting the same treatment most people get when aginst a far stronger opponent and just gets passively crushed by Bai's aura, and from getting powernulled, stat reducted, paralysed and having his regen nerfed before he pulls his stuff. Especially when Bai can stat amp himself with Living Mountain Incantation and Forefather transformation by hundreds of times.

And why Bai wouldn't be able to mind and soul hax Li Qiye. :thonk:

You have the Godkiller quote.

 

[InfiniteSped]

I showed Li creating a law that affects the whole universe, that's beyond what Bai can do at this point, without prep to pull the Light thing, at least. It's just a better law manip feat if you wanna go by just that. Affecting just the laws around you isn't really comparable, imo.

Even 4th Step still uses laws to fight each other, so, no, I don't think Essence is completely above natural laws as a whole. It doesn't really matter since Bai doesn't have a full Essence in this case, we can't know how strong it is aside from the people it has affected.

He can get crushed, but he just has to think here. Can Bai negate Mid-Godly Immortality? If not, he'll stay alive, and mindhax leads to those Emperor's Blessings sealing Bai, so pulling that is the same as letting Li use them anyway.

I read the Godkiller quote, and just that doesn't really convince me it's really immeasurable. I'll prob make a CRT.

 

[Nepuko]

> I showed Li creating a law that affects the whole universe, that's beyond what Bai can do at this point, without prep to pull the Light thing, at least. It's just a better law manip feat if you wanna go by just that. Affecting just the laws around you isn't really comparable, imo.

I mean, peeps weaker than him rejects the law of the universe. You don't call that something which dosen't affect the whole universe, or else it won't be called "the law of the universe". Even space is or smthing seemed to avoid them, and they had something like a void around them. Still get bypassed.


> Even 4th Step still uses laws to fight each other, so, no, I don't think Essence is completely above natural laws as a whole. It doesn't really matter since Bai doesn't have a full Essence in this case, we can't know how strong it is aside from the people it has affected.

Incorrect, it is canonically above natural laws. It's not because 4th step still use laws as a warm-up and back them up with their 4th step cultivation (which makes them vastly stronger than normal) that it disproves the above.

Essence was a power that only the cultivators who were not from Arid Triad Expanse Cosmos knew. It was another level of power that was completely different from laws. Su Ming did not understand it. In fact, he had never come into contact with it before this.

in here you have someone who has some Essence power (not a full essence) and he stomps the ones who only know laws :

"A barbaric power. You did not even understand the Essence of Nirvana Realm [1]. What is then the point in only possessing the form?" The black-robed person shook his head. Even though his expression could not be seen, but based on the words echoing in the galaxy, everyone could hear the contempt in his voice. When the huge palm from the Almighty in Mastery Realm from Morning Dao Sect collided with the ripples, it dissipated with a bang. The ripples continued spreading out like nothing had happened. The hand disappeared like how snow would melt when it ran into boiling water! This was dissipation, not collapse. If the palm had collapsed, it would have broken into pieces in a disorderly manner and tumbled backwards, while dissipation was breaking it down until it was reduced to particles... ''

and this too :

"The world has invisible natural laws…." he murmured. "On top of natural law is the omnipresent power of Essence ….

and this to show that Essence is a different form of power than laws :

The divine ability the black-robed person executed surpassed Su Ming's imagination. He had never even considered that divine abilities… could be executed this way. The man was neither using laws, but neither was he creating them. Instead, he used… another form of power that was hidden in the universe

You do not need to have a "full" Essence to have Essence power, as was shown by the Heaven's Blight dude. At that level they barely start grasping Essence to breakthrough to the 3rd step. If it was "fully" formed he would be in 3rd step >_>.

Also shown by Meng Hao, who's hexes have "Essence power/energy" while not being Essences. So him not having a "full" Essence dosen't matter.

Besides, it's obvious that Law Manip and Conceptual Manip are on a different scale....

>He can get crushed, but he just has to think here. Can Bai negate Mid-Godly Immortality? If not, he'll stay alive, and mindhax leads to those Emperor's Blessings sealing Bai, so pulling that is the same as letting Li use them anyway.

Passives > thought-based. He'll be crushed, weakened, and power-nulled. And again, why wouldn't Bai be able to bypass the Emperor's Blessings.

And even if they were resistant enough to survive Bai, Danger Sensing was also shown to trigger before you make an action that would be detrimental for you (as shown in a quote above). Plus Spiritual Pressure has passive Sealing afaik.

Were the Emperor's Blessing shown to activate in mindhaxing in general, or only when memories are searched through?

Also, can Li see invisible stuff to people that can see invisible stuff like souls? If not Bai is invisible to him.

 

[InfiniteSped]

They can reject the laws of the universe around them, but not those laws in the entire universe. The latter is still a better feat.

Meng and Allheaven were still throwing laws at each other, so those are still effective as of the 4th Step, while an incomplete Essence wouldn't be. So, it's not a default for any Essence > all laws. Bai has an incomplete one, so he'll need feats for his time-y shenanigans.

Being crushed, weakened and power nulled doesn't matter if it can't put him down. If it won't bypass his regen or stop him from thinking, then it won't stop him from hitting back. Li says the Blessings were applied to his sea of knowledge, and I believe that's what the "mind" in ED is, so, yes, those would probably activate it.

He can see invisible┬▓ things, yeah.

 

[Nepuko]

> They can reject the laws of the universe around them, but not those laws in the entire universe. The latter is still a better feat.

You were talking about laws affecting the whole universe, and I said what's written. Regardles, Essence.


> Meng and Allheaven were still throwing laws at each other, so those are still effective as of the 4th Step, while an incomplete Essence wouldn't be. So, it's not a default for any Essence > all laws. Bai has an incomplete one, so he'll need feats for his time-y shenanigans.

No, by default Essence > Laws. Dude, it's even a plot point in PotT. And as I said, the laws are obviously backed up by their 4th step cultivation and were obviously used as a warm-up. Anything can be OP when backed up by 4th step cultivation, even Meng's 1st step Flame Serpent would be stronger than Essence. Thet transcended it at that level man, hence the 1-A. But by default, Essence is above Laws. It was said and shown numerous times in the quotes above man, even in ISSTH where said 4th step fight happened. Saying the opposite is going against in-verse logic (._.).

And even if that's not the case (which no, it is), Essence was shown above to be another form of power than Laws. So whatever Li Qiye did on laws does not affect Essence in the first place :

The divine ability the black-robed person executed surpassed Su Ming's imagination. He had never even considered that divine abilities… could be executed this way. The man was neither using laws, but neither was he creating them. Instead, he used… another form of power that was hidden in the universe

>Being crushed, weakened and power nulled doesn't matter if it can't put him down. If it won't bypass his regen or stop him from thinking, then it won't stop him from hitting back. Li says the Blessings were applied to his sea of knowledge, and I believe that's what the "mind" in ED is, so, yes, those would probably activate it.

It would slow down his regen. Alright, I guess it works on his mind in general. Why would Bai be unable to break through them though.


>He can see invisible┬▓ things, yeah.

But can he see.... invisible^100!! Heh, anyway I'll let this one go. Or else I'll start to feel bad

 

[InfiniteSped]

From what John has been showing me, Li might get a ton smurf stuff, so I'll wait until I can figure that out before continuing matches that rely on his IE stuff.

 

[Nepuko]

rip my blood and sweat of gathering quotes and knocking some sense into heads reeee

Sure thing bro. I needed a break through I guess, we've been doing this for hours.