- 3,565
- 820
Okay, I'm gonna try and keep this organized, there's a lot to go through here, so I'll put this in sections marked off in Red
Lifting Strength
Most important part of the CRT, Lifting Strength upgrade, recently, there has been a calculation for Milas's Vortex Rush attack during his stage, a simplified version here. To put it simply, the numbers are fine. Now all that's left is to justify Lifting Strength can actually be derived from this in context, as just shooting water blasts doesn't exactly prove that the person can lift that much. However, if it's proved as a form of telekinesis / something similar to Magnetism Manipulation, then it can be used as a form of Lifting Strength. As well, I need to justify how it can scale to others.
Did Milas really lift that much water?
First off, let's prove that Milas did it. Because it IS indeed Milas doing it- on the first encounter with Vortex Rush, Gunvolt and Co. immediately speculate that this is an enemy Septima, proceeding to have a conversation that this was his weakness. Milas himself comments on how it didn't slow down Gunvolt's progress much as he switches to a different approach. As well, Milas quite literally uses the same move in his boss fight.
Next, we need to prove that Milas is doing this by manipulating the water itself and lifting it around through Telekinesis or something similar specific to water (so the end result would be Class M via Water Manipulation.
First off, All Septima are a form of Psychic Power. In Japan localizations of the Azure Striker Gunvolt (made by INTi, a Japanese Company), Adepts, people with Septima are literally called "Psychics", watch ANY gameplay footage of Japanese Gunvolt. But in case you really doubt me, here you go. Just go to the GV Wiki if you need to be absolutely sure.
This means they control things using their mind. Therefore, Milas controls water with his mind. Yes, Nimrod is Milas's Japanese name, go on the ASG2 Official Website if you want to make sure of that.
To have even MORE proof that this is a form of Telekinesis- lets take a look at Nova- who wields a Septima literally called "Psychokinesis", used for... well, Telekinesis. It is the most primitive form of Septima, that manipulates the world around it. This means that while it's the most basic, Nova's Septima basically tells us all about what Septima is, "use your mind to achieve the result you want". All other Septima are simply just derivatives of Nova's basic Septima, with their own little gimmicks such as water.
Another example of Septima just being telekinesis a lot of the time is Stella- her Gravity Septima allowing her to constantly control two high density buzz saws at all times, as well as just manipulating rubble into becoming dense blocks using her gravity Septima as a form of telekinesis.
Let's say that this isn't enough to convince you. I'll go to the Web Novel, "Fleeting Memories" that you can view yourself, like, the entire thing. This is localized by Matt Papa, the official localizer from Japanese to English, so "Adepts" are the English name, and this is in English. "Psychics" is the Japanese name. I can bring up the Japanese version if you really want just to prove that.
CONCLUSION: Milas lifts the water with his mind. And even if it wasn’t the case, the next section covers the bases as to why people should still scale.
Scaling
The simple part. First off, ANY enemy that comes into contact with a vortex of water gets instantly crushed from it, while Gunvolt/Copen himself is simply shoved upwards. That means Gunvolt himself has to withstand this much water- so even if Lifting Strength feat itself is refuted because it's considered a "water blast", the fact remains that Gunvolt/Copen survived being utterly crushed by the huge amount of mass, and it doesn't matter whether or not the user of the Vortex Rush "actually lifted" the water.
As for how it can scale to other people, well, first off, Gunvolt/Copen himself can still force his way out of it, the player inputting a direction to do it- and I don't think INTi really wants to create swimming sprites, but it's probably safe to assume that as the top ranking Adept of a freedom fighting private organization aiming to take down the ruler of the nation, Gunvolt would know how to swim. However, this is just one water pillar, so he'd only be scaling to fighting off the one pillar, instead of the four that Milas can do.
This basically means that anyone that can grapple Gunvolt can do the same- and honestly, all boss Adepts should be comparable to each other.
This should also scale to most Boss Adepts due to the likely being more powerful than the Eden Trapper Bot, a normal enemy within the game that can ensnare GV or Copen without them being able to escape at all compared to their ability to swim out of Vortex Rush. Or Elise's Zombies, which also Grapple Gunvolt. As well, there are catapults that can do the same thing Milas can do in terms of moving things around and I'm quite sure that boss characters are stronger than some... catapults. As well, Milas's Vortex Rushes destroy all enemies that are caught up in it, likely by utterly crushing them. So it's obvious that Gunvolt is resisting a lot of force, and even more impressively, swim out of them.
If not, the following should scale to this:
CONCLUSION: Gunvolt/Copen withstands all of that water, even if it is disproven that Milas somehow doesn't lift the water, which his whole thing, we can still use Lifting Strength physically as that much water, nevertheless of how it was manipulated, was survived by Gunvolt/Copen, and every other comparable person should scale.
Specific Additions
This will go over all specific abilities certain characters should get. I'll make sure to provide some kind of proof, typically Nintendo Dangeki Magazines, which I do have scans of in both translated and original form
Gunvolt
Remove Type 4 Immortality, established that there is no ressurection via reincarntion due to Anthem working by increasing GV's regenerative powers.
Addition of Martial Arts
GV1
Asimov
Martial Arts, he also blocks Nori's knife throw with his fist, as well as her kick. Scaling to GV because of the scans above, no reason why he shouldn't have it since he was mentioned in GV's convo
Fake Zonda
Managed to overhear Moniqa and GV's communications, some kind of Telepathy or Tech Maip?
Gibril
Should have Durability Negation via Life Manipulation, her EX Weapon, Ferrous Fangs, one shots Organic enemies but doesn't do crap against Machine enemies. She is also fueled by people, so Life Absorption too
Tenjian
Simply put, Tenjian's ability is NOT to control ice, rather to "freeze anything", his main application is simply to use it for Ice Manipulation. The Official Site and Dangeki Profiles both support this, so he should have Limited Heat/Temperature Manipulation, as his ability is literally that, just only going downwards
Nova and Merak
Simply put, their Septimas are so powerful that a Glaive's Power Absorption wasn't enough to seal off all of it. The should have Limited Power Absorption Resistance, as Glaives normally seal the full thing.
Elise
Simply put, her kunais can transform into snakes, which petrify to stone once they are killed, this has to be some form of Transmutation and Life Manipulation. You can see it in gameplay, so just go to a video of fighting Elise and you can see it for yourself
Elise 2 (the crazy one) also has a constant Berserker Mode, as the only times we ever see her, she's always berserk and crazy, that's kind of her whole thing.
Viper
His case is easy, he should gain Limited Heat Manipulation, Limited Air Manipulation, and Limited Platform Creation, a scaffolding is basically a construction site platform they take down after the building is complete, so basically what it means is that Viper uses heat manipulation to control the air and make a platform.
Jota
His ability is literally him turning into photons
Lola
Hacking and Enhanced Senses. Both of from Luminous Avenger iX, where she well... hacks... machines... to get... codes... I mean, just play the game and follow the story. Same with Enhance Senses, at the beginning cutscene she and Copen detect enemy movements and I believe heat signatures. This is all littered throughout the game, so it's a bit hard to get the proof since I can't remember small details, they have Technology manipulation too through some conversations as well.
Sumeragi Swordsman Glaive Summoning
They quite literally summon their Glaives into their hand to transform and do their thing, it's right there, they do it before every boss fight. Even the one guy who supposedly CAN'T do this because Sumeragi decided to administer full control over his Glaive, he summoned it anyways
Stratos
As mentioned in the above scan, he has a Berserk Mode that turns on whenever he's hungry... well he's pretty much crazy all the time.
Universal Additions
Finally, some things that all Adepts have, I'll make sure to provide proof for each one
Reactive Power Level (or Stats Amp) and Rage Power
There have been many many demonstrations that Emotions, Willpower, and Conciousness are directly associated with Septima output. Including Fleeting Memories
Here are examples in which they strengthen Septima- mostly strong negative emotions like Anger and Fear are what increases the Septima, but it's safe to assume that as long as it's a strong emotion, they will get a power boost.:
Tenjian was but a small child here, and couldn't really do much with his Septima, even with a Glaive and being far older, he couldn't do much but freeze some ground beneath GV and Copen's feet, even though the scan says that he could have done more, the point of it was to say that his Septima wasn't exactly that strong even with a Glaive
There is also Gibril’s case, here- which shows a child Gibril using her Septima to defend herself from her father with anger and fear as her main catalysts.
Joule, the Muse- activates her Anthem in times of when she truly cares and worries about Gunvolt, like… when he was dying- and most descriptions of this power always describe that Joule sings for him when he’s in trouble- thus a highly emotional situation
And the final example is Dystine, who had previously had a weak Septima (like most Septima, which are typically as weak as making flowers grow faster) which himself does not make a big deal about, until his rage over his late master enhanced his Septima to be on par with the rest of the Falcons- the most elite and powerful Septima users in the setting at the time. In fact, it was strong enough to damage the most powerful Septima user, Asimov- as an EX Weapon. This suggests that these power ups can be permanent, as this was revealed a significant amount of time after his master’s death.
As well, there are overall a lot of notable times when emotional moments sort of correlate with power- such as the endings of both mainline games, Gibril unleashing her Skill that kills herself out of anger, Tenjian using the self killing Seven Slashes when he is prepared to die for his cause- allowing his Septimal power to go far beyond it’s abilities of freezing objects to freezing concepts itself, Asroc and Teseo using the last of their willpower to turn back on the Plasma Legion even after death.
Conversely, if an Adept is knocked out (very rare exceptions including Teseo and Asroc), their Septima completely disappears. (Fleeting Memories)
As well, losing concentration can affect the effectiveness of attacks, such as in Copen’s Story
So Septimal Powers increase and decrease depending on a person's mental state, though we don't know exactly what emotions would lower it
Extrasensory Perception
This one is simple. People with Septima can detect each other.
Want more proof?
Tenjian Stage
Resistance to Brainwashing
Elise's part explains it all
However, there is a "shown" limit to it, as Brainwashing from the Muse is the end goal of Sumeragi's "Project Muse", likely being able to break through this resistance
Resistance to Life Manipulation
Gunvolt, and therefore pretty much any relevant Adept, don't get one shotted by Gibril's Life Manipulation... self explainatory
Acceptance
Agree: HyperNepsy, XMark12, The_Smashor, Oleggator, Parzival_Bo, Bobscian
Lifting Strength
Most important part of the CRT, Lifting Strength upgrade, recently, there has been a calculation for Milas's Vortex Rush attack during his stage, a simplified version here. To put it simply, the numbers are fine. Now all that's left is to justify Lifting Strength can actually be derived from this in context, as just shooting water blasts doesn't exactly prove that the person can lift that much. However, if it's proved as a form of telekinesis / something similar to Magnetism Manipulation, then it can be used as a form of Lifting Strength. As well, I need to justify how it can scale to others.
Did Milas really lift that much water?
First off, let's prove that Milas did it. Because it IS indeed Milas doing it- on the first encounter with Vortex Rush, Gunvolt and Co. immediately speculate that this is an enemy Septima, proceeding to have a conversation that this was his weakness. Milas himself comments on how it didn't slow down Gunvolt's progress much as he switches to a different approach. As well, Milas quite literally uses the same move in his boss fight.
Next, we need to prove that Milas is doing this by manipulating the water itself and lifting it around through Telekinesis or something similar specific to water (so the end result would be Class M via Water Manipulation.
First off, All Septima are a form of Psychic Power. In Japan localizations of the Azure Striker Gunvolt (made by INTi, a Japanese Company), Adepts, people with Septima are literally called "Psychics", watch ANY gameplay footage of Japanese Gunvolt. But in case you really doubt me, here you go. Just go to the GV Wiki if you need to be absolutely sure.
This means they control things using their mind. Therefore, Milas controls water with his mind. Yes, Nimrod is Milas's Japanese name, go on the ASG2 Official Website if you want to make sure of that.
To have even MORE proof that this is a form of Telekinesis- lets take a look at Nova- who wields a Septima literally called "Psychokinesis", used for... well, Telekinesis. It is the most primitive form of Septima, that manipulates the world around it. This means that while it's the most basic, Nova's Septima basically tells us all about what Septima is, "use your mind to achieve the result you want". All other Septima are simply just derivatives of Nova's basic Septima, with their own little gimmicks such as water.
Another example of Septima just being telekinesis a lot of the time is Stella- her Gravity Septima allowing her to constantly control two high density buzz saws at all times, as well as just manipulating rubble into becoming dense blocks using her gravity Septima as a form of telekinesis.
Let's say that this isn't enough to convince you. I'll go to the Web Novel, "Fleeting Memories" that you can view yourself, like, the entire thing. This is localized by Matt Papa, the official localizer from Japanese to English, so "Adepts" are the English name, and this is in English. "Psychics" is the Japanese name. I can bring up the Japanese version if you really want just to prove that.
Septima is part of the Lifewave, the top tier part of it, where as Mid-Tiers of the Lifewave are already considered to be "psychics", it's no doubt that they use their mind to, as the very Web Novel says "control, manipulate and produce X", like water. Everyone basically has "telekinesis" with whatever their gimmick is, like pyrokinesis, aerokinesis, and hydrokinesis. Even if it isn’t technically TK, I mean “control with mind, do things” seems very close and similar to me for it to apply.
CONCLUSION: Milas lifts the water with his mind. And even if it wasn’t the case, the next section covers the bases as to why people should still scale.
Scaling
The simple part. First off, ANY enemy that comes into contact with a vortex of water gets instantly crushed from it, while Gunvolt/Copen himself is simply shoved upwards. That means Gunvolt himself has to withstand this much water- so even if Lifting Strength feat itself is refuted because it's considered a "water blast", the fact remains that Gunvolt/Copen survived being utterly crushed by the huge amount of mass, and it doesn't matter whether or not the user of the Vortex Rush "actually lifted" the water.
As for how it can scale to other people, well, first off, Gunvolt/Copen himself can still force his way out of it, the player inputting a direction to do it- and I don't think INTi really wants to create swimming sprites, but it's probably safe to assume that as the top ranking Adept of a freedom fighting private organization aiming to take down the ruler of the nation, Gunvolt would know how to swim. However, this is just one water pillar, so he'd only be scaling to fighting off the one pillar, instead of the four that Milas can do.
This basically means that anyone that can grapple Gunvolt can do the same- and honestly, all boss Adepts should be comparable to each other.
This should also scale to most Boss Adepts due to the likely being more powerful than the Eden Trapper Bot, a normal enemy within the game that can ensnare GV or Copen without them being able to escape at all compared to their ability to swim out of Vortex Rush. Or Elise's Zombies, which also Grapple Gunvolt. As well, there are catapults that can do the same thing Milas can do in terms of moving things around and I'm quite sure that boss characters are stronger than some... catapults. As well, Milas's Vortex Rushes destroy all enemies that are caught up in it, likely by utterly crushing them. So it's obvious that Gunvolt is resisting a lot of force, and even more impressively, swim out of them.
If not, the following should scale to this:
- Copen: Is also a Player Character that can do the same thing
- Merak: Can easily shove and push around Gunvolt with his mecha, sending him flying across the room
- Viper: Can knock GV around, pushing him into flame pillars with his kicks, and using him as a surface to jump off of
- Carrera: Can grab and trap Gunvolt without giving him any chance of escape, unlike the Eden Trapper, which can be broken out of
- Elise: Her Gorgon Gaze, in addition to resistance, requires physical effort to break out of.
- Stratos: Can instantly crush and kill Gunvolt with his Nemesis Fang
- Nova: Can somewhat shove Gunvolt with a powerful wind blast. Can call down a giant meteor to crush and instantly kill Gunvolt, and is referred to as the strongest Adept in the setting with a Telekinesis Septima stronger in battling power than the Azure Striker
- Tenjian: Can instantly freeze Gunvolt or Copen with Flash Freezing, Frigid Blossom, or Seven Slashes
- Gibril: Can ensnare Gunvolt or Copen with an Iron Maiden, forcing them to break out physically
- Desna: Can grapple Gunvolt or Copen, both with no chance to escape with her Entangled Strands. Can pull of similar feats that Milas can with her air manipulation, attracting Gunvolt and Copen towards her.
- Milas: Can use Vortex Rush to capture Gunvolt or Copen in a whirlpool of water with little chance of escape
- Rebellio: Can ensnare Copen with Crimson Death Thread, with no chance of escape
- Lola Tank: Can ensare Copen with Rebellio's Septima, again with no chance of escape
- Stella: Can pin down Copen with Cage Chakram and Heavy Shackles, with little to no chance of escape respectively
- Dystine: Can trap Copen with Total Blackout and Shroud Spear, the former with no chance of escape
CONCLUSION: Gunvolt/Copen withstands all of that water, even if it is disproven that Milas somehow doesn't lift the water, which his whole thing, we can still use Lifting Strength physically as that much water, nevertheless of how it was manipulated, was survived by Gunvolt/Copen, and every other comparable person should scale.
Specific Additions
This will go over all specific abilities certain characters should get. I'll make sure to provide some kind of proof, typically Nintendo Dangeki Magazines, which I do have scans of in both translated and original form
Gunvolt
Remove Type 4 Immortality, established that there is no ressurection via reincarntion due to Anthem working by increasing GV's regenerative powers.
Addition of Martial Arts
GV1
GV2
Asimov
Martial Arts, he also blocks Nori's knife throw with his fist, as well as her kick. Scaling to GV because of the scans above, no reason why he shouldn't have it since he was mentioned in GV's convo
Fake Zonda
Managed to overhear Moniqa and GV's communications, some kind of Telepathy or Tech Maip?
Gibril
Should have Durability Negation via Life Manipulation, her EX Weapon, Ferrous Fangs, one shots Organic enemies but doesn't do crap against Machine enemies. She is also fueled by people, so Life Absorption too
Tenjian
Simply put, Tenjian's ability is NOT to control ice, rather to "freeze anything", his main application is simply to use it for Ice Manipulation. The Official Site and Dangeki Profiles both support this, so he should have Limited Heat/Temperature Manipulation, as his ability is literally that, just only going downwards
Nova and Merak
Simply put, their Septimas are so powerful that a Glaive's Power Absorption wasn't enough to seal off all of it. The should have Limited Power Absorption Resistance, as Glaives normally seal the full thing.
Elise
Simply put, her kunais can transform into snakes, which petrify to stone once they are killed, this has to be some form of Transmutation and Life Manipulation. You can see it in gameplay, so just go to a video of fighting Elise and you can see it for yourself
Elise 2 (the crazy one) also has a constant Berserker Mode, as the only times we ever see her, she's always berserk and crazy, that's kind of her whole thing.
Viper
His case is easy, he should gain Limited Heat Manipulation, Limited Air Manipulation, and Limited Platform Creation, a scaffolding is basically a construction site platform they take down after the building is complete, so basically what it means is that Viper uses heat manipulation to control the air and make a platform.
Jota
His ability is literally him turning into photons
Lola
Hacking and Enhanced Senses. Both of from Luminous Avenger iX, where she well... hacks... machines... to get... codes... I mean, just play the game and follow the story. Same with Enhance Senses, at the beginning cutscene she and Copen detect enemy movements and I believe heat signatures. This is all littered throughout the game, so it's a bit hard to get the proof since I can't remember small details, they have Technology manipulation too through some conversations as well.
Sumeragi Swordsman Glaive Summoning
They quite literally summon their Glaives into their hand to transform and do their thing, it's right there, they do it before every boss fight. Even the one guy who supposedly CAN'T do this because Sumeragi decided to administer full control over his Glaive, he summoned it anyways
Stratos
As mentioned in the above scan, he has a Berserk Mode that turns on whenever he's hungry... well he's pretty much crazy all the time.
Universal Additions
Finally, some things that all Adepts have, I'll make sure to provide proof for each one
Reactive Power Level (or Stats Amp) and Rage Power
There have been many many demonstrations that Emotions, Willpower, and Conciousness are directly associated with Septima output. Including Fleeting Memories
Here are examples in which they strengthen Septima- mostly strong negative emotions like Anger and Fear are what increases the Septima, but it's safe to assume that as long as it's a strong emotion, they will get a power boost.:
Tenjian was but a small child here, and couldn't really do much with his Septima, even with a Glaive and being far older, he couldn't do much but freeze some ground beneath GV and Copen's feet, even though the scan says that he could have done more, the point of it was to say that his Septima wasn't exactly that strong even with a Glaive
There is also Gibril’s case, here- which shows a child Gibril using her Septima to defend herself from her father with anger and fear as her main catalysts.
Joule, the Muse- activates her Anthem in times of when she truly cares and worries about Gunvolt, like… when he was dying- and most descriptions of this power always describe that Joule sings for him when he’s in trouble- thus a highly emotional situation
And the final example is Dystine, who had previously had a weak Septima (like most Septima, which are typically as weak as making flowers grow faster) which himself does not make a big deal about, until his rage over his late master enhanced his Septima to be on par with the rest of the Falcons- the most elite and powerful Septima users in the setting at the time. In fact, it was strong enough to damage the most powerful Septima user, Asimov- as an EX Weapon. This suggests that these power ups can be permanent, as this was revealed a significant amount of time after his master’s death.
As well, there are overall a lot of notable times when emotional moments sort of correlate with power- such as the endings of both mainline games, Gibril unleashing her Skill that kills herself out of anger, Tenjian using the self killing Seven Slashes when he is prepared to die for his cause- allowing his Septimal power to go far beyond it’s abilities of freezing objects to freezing concepts itself, Asroc and Teseo using the last of their willpower to turn back on the Plasma Legion even after death.
Conversely, if an Adept is knocked out (very rare exceptions including Teseo and Asroc), their Septima completely disappears. (Fleeting Memories)
As well, losing concentration can affect the effectiveness of attacks, such as in Copen’s Story
The same thing happens in Drama CDs
So Septimal Powers increase and decrease depending on a person's mental state, though we don't know exactly what emotions would lower it
Extrasensory Perception
This one is simple. People with Septima can detect each other.
Want more proof?
Tenjian Stage
Stratos Stage
Medical Center (LAiX)
Sewers
Resistance to Brainwashing
Elise's part explains it all
However, there is a "shown" limit to it, as Brainwashing from the Muse is the end goal of Sumeragi's "Project Muse", likely being able to break through this resistance
Resistance to Life Manipulation
Gunvolt, and therefore pretty much any relevant Adept, don't get one shotted by Gibril's Life Manipulation... self explainatory
Acceptance
Agree: HyperNepsy, XMark12, The_Smashor, Oleggator, Parzival_Bo, Bobscian
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