Austin Theory vs Karen Araragi

[RandomGuy2345]

We have done many matchups with wrestlers who have decades of experiences, as well as absurd levels of skill. Let's see how a wrestler with significantly less amounts of skill and experience fairs against a 15 year old martial artist.

Austin Theory vs Karen Araragi

Speed is equalized.

Fight takes place in a wrestling ring.

Win via KO.

The Unproven One: 7 (Pika, DD, Shmooply, Velox, Bruhtelho, RandomGuy, Noneless)

Peak Tomboy:

Inconclusive:

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Araragi: 1715.44 KJ
Theory: 796.1 KJ

Araragi holds a 2.1x AP advantage.

 

[Agnaa]

That instinctive reactions feat looks bunk, so I made a thread to remove it.

Karen is stronger, has far better stamina, and knows throws and sleeper holds.

Austin has higher LS that might help for getting out of holds, and better reach due to being taller. His taunting doesn't sound very useful, and his skill doesn't have many practical examples.

I think Karen's advantages will be a lot more useful. I don't see a consistent path to victory for Austin. So my vote goes to Karen.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Karen is stronger

True, though it's not much.

has far better stamina

Definitely true.

and knows throws and sleeper holds.

That's something Theory can do easily if he wants to.

Austin has higher LS that might help for getting out of holds, and better reach due to being taller.

Definitely true. He should be able to throw Karen around like a ragdoll.

His taunting doesn't sound very useful,

It's useful to get in the opponents head, though I'm not too sure if someone like Karen would get affected by this lol

and his skill doesn't have many practical examples.

Wdym???

I think Karen's advantages will be a lot more useful. I don't see a consistent path to victory for Austin. So my vote goes to Karen.

I might need to make a little essay for how skilled Theory is. Theory is way more versatile than Karen for one. Here's a link to his entire moveset.

Brb. Time to make an essay.

 

[Agnaa]

That's something Theory can do easily if he wants to.

Oh damn, if that's true then I'd expect him to have a much better chance. Not quite winning, as Karen could dish out a good amount of damage punching/kicking him while he does that sorta thing, but more 60-40 than 98-2 as I had it pegged earlier.

I might need to make a little essay for how skilled Theory is.

Yeah his skill definitely needs some explanation. "Has 6 years of experience, was the champion before, is the champion now, and has a variety of named techniques" doesn't really tell me much.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Oh damn, if that's true then I'd expect him to have a much better chance. Not quite winning, as Karen could dish out a good amount of damage punching/kicking him while he does that sorta thing, but more 60-40 than 98-2 as I had it pegged earlier.

Theory's extremely arrogant. Seeing that he's fighting a little girl would make him think he won't have to try, and he would just end up insulting her, as well as telling her to get out of his ring. This'll definitely be detrimental for him, though I can see him getting frustrated as the fight goes on and he'll fight more aggressively and seriously then.

Yeah his skill definitely needs some explanation. "Has 6 years of experience, was the champion before, is the champion now, and has a variety of named techniques" doesn't really tell me much.

Doing that now.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

wtf.

Austin won six wrestling championships, so he’s got something

Karen has a belt in an unspecified karate which isn’t exactly going John Wick on an average Joe. Some types of Karate are less focused on effective violence then others.

Austin’s LS seems to provide a huge advantage. He can just shoot for takedown provided his “wrestling” experience and scramble out a victory via a chokehold or something. Karen won’t be strong enough to resist.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Well, for starters, Theory on his debut NXT match was able to fight on par with Roderick Strong. Strong has over 20 years of experience as a wrestler, and was nicknamed The Master of the Backbreaker, due to his ability to constantly target the opponents back in wrestling matchups.

Theory's also able to hold his own against the likes of Aleister Black, who was trained in Pencak Silat and Kickboxing from the ages 9 to 15.

Austin Theory defeated Ricochet in only a couple of minutes. Ricochet is notorious for using his absurd levels of acrobatics and quick reflexes to defeat his opponent.

Theory was also able to give AJ Styles a good run for his money. AJ Styles is the same guy who was able to beat John Cena clean. Cena is the same guy who looked like was about to beat Brock Lesnar before getting interrupted. Brock Lesnar was an Amateur Wrestler, as well as a Mixed Martial Artist.

This isn't an essay, but it definitely took me a while for me to find some good links.

 

[Agnaa]

Karen has a belt in an unspecified karate which isn’t exactly going John Wick on an average Joe. Some types of Karate are less focused on effective violence then others.

Oi oi, she didn't get a belt in an unspecified karate that may not be focused on effective violence. She got a black belt very quickly at a school which incorporated capoeira and judo.

In fact, their dojo is so focused on actual combat that they're forbidden from participating in tournaments. But if she were allowed to, she'd get to the nationals. (Quote from Nise 2, Tsukihi Phoenix, Chapter 3)

Apparently it was the rule or custom or whatever at Karen’s dojo not to participate in tournaments (Or rather, they couldn’t. Their style was so focused on actual combat that they were forbidden from joining related clubs at school), but Karen being Karen, if she did enter into such competitions, then make no mistake─or mistake as you might─she’d get to the nationals.

Karen's Acrobatics isn't explained on her profile; it comes from her vaulting over a huge gate. (Quote from Koyomi 1, Koyomi Tree, Chapter 2) Sounds better than Ricochet's stuff, imo.

Despite the fact that I’d taken the time to lay it all out clearly, and in numerical order no less, Karen just laughed it off and lightly vaulted over the gate.

When I say gate, though, I’m not talking about your garden-variety garden gate. The dojo had a gate like the kind in front of a certain kind of house: impressive, or imposing, or really huge, but Karen took off like a ninja and leapt clean over it.

Damn, she doesn’t even need CG.

She's done a hundred-man kumite before (a feat rare enough to have a comprehensive list of accomplishers on wikipedia, which is only 31 people long), and now aims to win every single match, but I don't think we learn if she ever succeeds at that. (Quote from Owari 3, Hitagi Rendezvous, Chapter 3)

“You really have no interest at all in learning your sisters’ boyfriends’ names, do you? Mm, no, Karen said she’d be going to her dojo tomorrow. I guess to celebrate her graduation, rather than starting at her new school? Her master had a cool idea, and she’s getting to go through a hundred-man kumite.”

“Why on White Day…”

Romance was a foreign concept to both of my little sisters. They were making it seem like I was the only one floating in air.

Putting Karen aside, I admit it weighed on my conscience a bit that Tsukihi was visiting Sengoku…

“She’s done a hundred-man kumite before,” Tsukihi said, “but Karen wants to win every match this time around. If she does, she’ll be granted a full-contact match with her master.”

“Wow, she’s been living a tale of her own…”

That's everything that wasn't already covered on her profile.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Oi oi, she didn't get a belt in an unspecified karate that may not be focused on effective violence. She got a black belt very quickly at a school which incorporated capoeira and judo.

Usually schools that incorporate techniques from other arts don’t have huge focuses on them. A BJJ class may incorporate judo throws to make them a better grappler, but that’s mostly it. They don’t utilize the full kit.

Capoeria is effective in very, very specific circumstances. The art was originally a foe of dancing, and isn’t used much in actual sanctioned MMA fights. it’s funny when happens though.

Also the “wouldn’t be allowed in other clubs because their techniques are too combat focused” sounds vague. A karate class wouldn’t allow a double leg in a karate class sparring session even if it’s effective, because it’s against the rules.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Karen has a belt in an unspecified karate which isn’t exactly going John Wick on an average Joe. Some types of Karate are less focused on effective violence then others.

Oi oi, she didn't get a belt in an unspecified karate that may not be focused on effective violence. She got a black belt very quickly at a school which incorporated capoeira and judo.

In fact, their dojo is so focused on actual combat that they're forbidden from participating in tournaments. But if she were allowed to, she'd get to the nationals. (Quote from Nise 2, Tsukihi Phoenix, Chapter 3)

To add on, AJ Styles has shown to fight on par with Daniel Bryan on multiple occasions. Daniel Bryan incorporates Brazilian Jie-Jitsu in his wrestling style, a style which heavily focuses on ground fighting and submission holds.

Theory was able to give Styles a good run for his money.

Karen's Acrobatics isn't explained on her profile; it comes from her vaulting over a huge gate. (Quote from Koyomi 1, Koyomi Tree, Chapter 2)

I don't think jumping over the kind of gate that's built in front of a house is nearly as impressive as the kind of stuff Ricochet is able to do. Here are some examples.

I honestly think Karen will get overwhelmed by Theory's size and LS advantage. Theory has faced and defeated people with more impressive acrobatics than Karen, as well as defeated people with more effective martial arts than her in a fight like this. The moment Karen gets put in a hold is pretty much GG.

Also, WWE finishers tend to do significantly more damage than normal moves, so if Theory can hit the Ataxia, ATL, or A-Town Down on Karen, GG as well.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Sir I think you have to remember “pro-wrestling” has the opponent voluntarily letting them be grabbed and thrown around. That’s part of its identity lol.

I vote incon. He might know real wrestling techniques, and if he does good. He shoots for a takedown she doesn’t know how to defend and submits her.

if not, Karen ******* kills a performer and gets arrested.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sir I think you have to remember “pro-wrestling” has the opponent voluntarily letting them be grabbed and thrown around. That’s part of its identity lol.

Voluntarily??? Dude it's scripted. That's what's needed to do in order to perform some of the stunts. In a versus debate, this doesn't apply. Voluntarily getting grabbed and thrown around is not what's going to happen here. Everything is real. This point only works when a wrestler lets himself/herself get grabbed, and then counters the move. Basically baiting them.

I vote incon. He might know real wrestling techniques, and if he does good. He shoots for a takedown she doesn’t know how to defend and submits her.

if not, Karen ******* kills a performer and gets arrested.

He does. There's no might to it. A takedown is one of the most basic wrestling moves ever.

Plus, y'all are forgetting the fact that Theory has defeated people with more experience/skill than him clean (Jeff Hardy, Finn Balor, Kevin Owens, etc.).

Vote counted, though.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Going to bed now.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't think jumping over the kind of gate that's built in front of a house is nearly as impressive as the kind of stuff Ricochet is able to do. Here are some examples.

I think from the description given (it's not a garden variety gate, it's an impressive/imposing/huge one you'd only find in front of a certain kind of house) implies that it's far taller than a person's height. I'd expect that it'd be around 2-3m high, higher than Ricochet could jump (since he's a performer, those sorts of things still have to conform to what's humanly possible).

The moment Karen gets put in a hold is pretty much GG.

This is purely due to my own lack of martial arts knowledge, but are there holds that he could feasibly get Karen into from which her only option to escape is through better LS? i.e. ones where she could not punch/kick him at all, not just being restricted to punching/kicking from a bad angle. Because if not, she could still do some damage to him. This would probably also need to be extremely painful or choke her to be able to get around her insane stamina.

I just doubt that Austin would be able to more often than not get Karen in a hold that'd bypass her stamina and render her punches useless before she damages him into ineffectiveness.

 

[DivineAura44]

Sir I think you have to remember “pro-wrestling” has the opponent voluntarily letting them be grabbed and thrown around. That’s part of its identity lol.

That's from an outsider sense. That's equivalent to saying MCU characters are 10-B because the real life actors cannot do the feats being performed on screen.

 

[Pikaman]

Sir I think you have to remember “pro-wrestling” has the opponent voluntarily letting them be grabbed and thrown around. That’s part of its identity lol.

I vote incon. He might know real wrestling techniques, and if he does good. He shoots for a takedown she doesn’t know how to defend and submits her.

if not, Karen ******* kills a performer and gets arrested.

Sigh bring out the bingo card

 

[Pikaman]

I’ll wait before I decide my vote but leaning towards Theory

 

[Agnaa]

Well, for starters, Theory on his debut NXT match was able to fight on par with Roderick Strong. Strong has over 20 years of experience as a wrestler, and was nicknamed The Master of the Backbreaker, due to his ability to constantly target the opponents back in wrestling matchups.

Theory's also able to hold his own against the likes of Aleister Black, who was trained in Pencak Silat and Kickboxing from the ages 9 to 15.

Austin Theory defeated Ricochet in only a couple of minutes. Ricochet is notorious for using his absurd levels of acrobatics and quick reflexes to defeat his opponent.

Theory was also able to give AJ Styles a good run for his money. AJ Styles is the same guy who was able to beat John Cena clean. Cena is the same guy who looked like was about to beat Brock Lesnar before getting interrupted. Brock Lesnar was an Amateur Wrestler, as well as a Mixed Martial Artist.

This isn't an essay, but it definitely took me a while for me to find some good links.

I've watched a few of these (Theory vs Ricochet and AJ Styles vs John Cena) and they don't seem particularly good.

Theory defeated Ricochet (which is meant to indicate that he can deal with Karen's Acrobatics) because Ricochet spent 10 seconds slowly climbing up and then standing around doing nothing on top of the top rope, Theory elbowed it, causing Ricochet to fall down, then Theory grabbed and pinned Ricochet. I just don't see that sort of thing being helpful against Karen from what we've seen in fights, she's not gonna stand around for 3 seconds doing ****-all while he walks up and grabs her.

The AJ Styles and John Cena one was also a bit strange, AJ just climbed onto the top rope while Cena stood still, and jumped to throw a punch at his head, which he didn't dodge. If these are the sorts of "outskilling" that's being used for scaling, it doesn't seem like it'd be too useful in a fight.

To see how Karen compares, here's a full fight involving her.

To annotate it, despite being incredibly sick, she countered a grab with a throw, included a feint with a barrage of punches, kicked when one of her legs was grabbed, there wasn't an opening for her opponent to counterattack. When a leg sweep was dodged by jumping backward, she brought her other leg down for an axe kick, which then swung up to kick his jaw, followed by her other leg to kick her opponent after he dodged that first one. Once this had her doing a handstand, she began to spin, kicking with each rotation. When her opponent tried to grab her legs, she sank toward the ground to kick his legs. After the opponent fell, she jumped on him, putting their head in a lock, and threw him using her legs. She jumped off after the throw, and immediately went back to kicking, kicking the opponent three times in one leap. After she landed, she immediately got up, backflipped onto the opponent, jumped off of him into a knee drop. When the opponent dodged this at the last moment, she twisted to land instead of kneeing the ground. Then, without hesitation, put the opponent in a sleeper hold. After she let go, and the opponent tried striking her, she head-butted him, then turned to strike a backhand into his temple.

If that's tl;dr, in short, she doesn't wait around, she's constantly going for opportunities, launching attack after attack. And when something doesn't work (choke hold isn't choking them), she quickly stops and tries something else.

 

[DivineAura44]

I’ll wait before I decide my vote but leaning towards Theory

your hilarious.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Responding to that essay later lol

I have school today.

 

[DivineAura44]

I've watched a few of these (Theory vs Ricochet and AJ Styles vs John Cena) and they don't seem particularly good.

Theory defeated Ricochet (which is meant to indicate that he can deal with Karen's Acrobatics) because Ricochet spent 10 seconds slowly climbing up and then standing around doing nothing on top of the top rope, Theory elbowed it, causing Ricochet to fall down, then Theory grabbed and pinned Ricochet. I just don't see that sort of thing being helpful against Karen from what we've seen in fights, she's not gonna stand around for 3 seconds doing ****-all while he walks up and grabs her.

The AJ Styles and John Cena one was also a bit strange, AJ just climbed onto the top rope while Cena stood still, and jumped to throw a punch at his head, which he didn't dodge. If these are the sorts of "outskilling" that's being used for scaling, it doesn't seem like it'd be too useful in a fight.

To see how Karen compares, here's a full fight involving her.

To annotate it, despite being incredibly sick, she countered a grab with a throw, included a feint with a barrage of punches, kicked when one of her legs was grabbed, there wasn't an opening for her opponent to counterattack. When a leg sweep was dodged by jumping backward, she brought her other leg down for an axe kick, which then swung up to kick his jaw, followed by her other leg to kick her opponent after he dodged that first one. Once this had her doing a handstand, she began to spin, kicking with each rotation. When her opponent tried to grab her legs, she sank toward the ground to kick his legs. After the opponent fell, she jumped on him, putting their head in a lock, and threw him using her legs. She jumped off after the throw, and immediately went back to kicking, kicking the opponent three times in one leap. After she landed, she immediately got up, backflipped onto the opponent, jumped off of him into a knee drop. When the opponent dodged this at the last moment, she twisted to land instead of kneeing the ground. Then, without hesitation, put the opponent in a sleeper hold. After she let go, and the opponent tried striking her, she head-butted him, then turned to strike a backhand into his temple.

If that's tl;dr, in short, she doesn't wait around, she's constantly going for opportunities, launching attack after attack. And when something doesn't work (choke hold isn't choking them), she quickly stops and tries something else.

I'm confused, what do you expect? Do you want the real life people doing triple backflips at 40? Wrestling from an insider perspective is supposed to mean they aren't waiting but instead the opponent gets up before they can react. (And please for the love of god not argue that their reaction speed is supremely bad.)

 

[Pikaman]

Explaining how WWE works as a verse every single Vs Match is so tiring…

 

[Shmooply]

Explaining how WWE works as a verse every single Vs Match is so tiring…

Feels like we're trapped in an endless loop where we have to explain to nerds how does a verse of half-naked men grappling eachother in bizarre ways work.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

If that's tl;dr, in short, she doesn't wait around, she's constantly going for opportunities, launching attack after attack. And when something doesn't work (choke hold isn't choking them), she quickly stops and tries something else.

Araragi has the skill of a normal Joe. So it’ll be easy to constantly barrage attacks on someone who doesn’t know what he’s doing. The guy literally charged her blindly and got fisted in return. Any grappler with a brain sets up the takedown.

This is purely due to my own lack of martial arts knowledge, but are there holds that he could feasibly get Karen into from which her only option to escape is through better LS? i.e. ones where she could not punch/kick him at all, not just being restricted to punching/kicking from a bad angle. Because if not, she could still do some damage to him. This would probably also need to be extremely painful or choke her to be able to get around her insane stamina.

For the basic submissions (Armbar, Rear Naked Choke, Seatbelt choke) Not with his strength absolutely outmatching her in terms of LS. Most fighters struggle against even a 20lb advantage, especially in ground game. There’s a reason weight classes exist.
Theory’s LS is much higher than her’s, and even a basic could be impossible to break because of his strength. Stamina might be an issue, but it’s hard to fight effectively (or at all) without a supply of oxygen going into your brain. A broken limb due to a successful submission would also put her in a severe disadvantage from defending against anything else.

Araragi specifically wanted to not hurt her completely irrc. He still gave his best, but I remember a scene where he refused to play fight with his sisters in fear of accidentally killing then because of his strength.


Case in point (Randy Couter vs James Toney). Randy was long time MMA champ before James stepped into the ring. James was a boxing champion who knew nothing about grappling when entering the ring.

11:18

He got taken down and submitted immediately. Karate is different as it supports more avenues of striking, but the point of “not being able to defend what you don’t know stands”.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Feels like we're trapped in an endless loop where we have to explain to nerds how does a verse of half-naked men grappling eachother in bizarre ways work.

You deserve this because it’s lame

 

[Agnaa]

I'm confused, what do you expect? Do you want the real life people doing triple backflips at 40? Wrestling from an insider perspective is supposed to mean they aren't waiting but instead the opponent gets up before they can react. (And please for the love of god not argue that their reaction speed is supremely bad.)

Some verses are just inherently handicapped due to their presentation. Literary verses and longer verses have a massive advantage for reaching higher tiers and having abstract feats, since they can take more time to explain that sort of thing. Verses with multiple writers end up with more contradictions. Visual verses can get more impressive results with feats based on size, as they can show sizes far more easily (although they can get rekt on timeframes). At the end of the day, tough luck, we rate verses by how they are, not what we imagine they'd want to be or what we imagine their creators intended.

I'm all for hidden flamethrowers being used to show fire manip, weaker tables being used to show AP/Dura, but won't pretend that being able to grab someone who stands around doing nothing for 10 seconds is an impressive skill feat.

 

[Shmooply]

You deserve this because it’s lame

You keep this shit up and I'll tell everyone your worst secrets.

i mean uhhh

Leaning towards Karen until better arguments for Theory are brought up.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Still vote incon

 

[Agnaa]

Araragi has the skill of a normal Joe. So it’ll be easy to constantly barrage attacks on someone who doesn’t know what he’s doing. The guy literally charged her blindly and got fisted in return. Any grappler with a brain sets up the takedown.

Fair enough ig.

For the basic submissions (Armbar, Rear Naked Choke, Seatbelt choke) Not with his strength absolutely outmatching her in terms of LS. Most fighters struggle against even a 20lb advantage, especially in ground game. There’s a reason weight classes exist. Theory’s LS is much higher than her’s, and even a basic could be impossible to break because of his strength. Stamina might be an issue, but it’s hard to fight effectively (or at all) without a supply of oxygen going into your brain. A broken limb due to a successful submission would also put her in a severe disadvantage from defending against anything else.

To try and be a little clearer so that we're on the same page. I'm asking if there's a submission that'd cut off Karen's oxygen supply, and from which she can't be punching/kicking Austin back. But maybe you could argue that even if she can, she won't get enough damage in before she loses consciousness. A broken limb would put Austin in a very winning position, though.

Araragi specifically wanted to not hurt her completely irrc. He still gave his best, but I remember a scene where he refused to play fight with his sisters in fear of accidentally killing then because of his strength.

That was his attitude going into it, but he realized that it was dumb pretty quickly into the fight when he was getting his ass beat. Those scenes did exist, but in this one, he realizes that he was dumb for thinking that.

Case in point (Randy Couter vs James Toney). Randy was long time MMA champ before James stepped into the ring. James was a boxing champion who knew nothing about grappling when entering the ring.

Oof yeah that's nasty, but again I have to wonder if Austin would come out of it fine getting wailed on by someone twice as strong for two minutes.

And I do have to bring up; how realistic is that sort of path for Austin? At the start of the thread he was described as pretty cocky, And from that Ricochet fight, he does pick up Ricochet, but doesn't go for a submission; just chucks him on the ground, and proceeds to go for a number of strikes. If Austin had Randy's tactics/skills, I would give the win handily to him, but I'm not convinced that that's the case. And Austin would need to pull that sort of thing out >50% of the time to net a win here.

He got taken down and submitted immediately. Karate is different as it supports more avenues of striking, but the point of “not being able to defend what you don’t know stands”.

I don't know if this sort of thing is something we should assume that Karen doesn't know. I'd rather say that she's less likely to get out of it due to being weaker. But if it is just a technique thing, she does seem to be familiar with throws and grapples.

 

[Agnaa]

btw, I just had a look at the calc used for Austin's AP here and it hasn't been accepted...

If we use the accepted calc (for Kenny Omega), Austin's got an AP advantage and probably wrecks Karen. Although that calc has some issues...

 

[DivineAura44]

but won't pretend that being able to grab someone who stands around doing nothing for 10 seconds is an impressive skill feat.

I'm not arguing for it to be a skill feat. I'm arguing that you using it as an anti-feat would be against insider knowledge.

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah, casually dealing with an idiot isn't an anti-feat, it's just that that fight was brought up for Austin being able to deal with characters with Karen's level of acrobatics, and I don't think it's applicable for that.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

To try and be a little clearer so that we're on the same page. I'm asking if there's a submission that'd cut off Karen's oxygen supply, and from which she can't be punching/kicking Austin back. But maybe you could argue that even if she can, she won't get enough damage in before she loses consciousness. A broken limb would put Austin in a very winning position, though.

Rear Naked Choke. She wouldn’t have enough strength/range of motion to break out a limb and punch effectively.

I don't know if this sort of thing is something we should assume that Karen doesn't know. I'd rather say that she's less likely to get out of it due to being weaker. But if it is just a technique thing, she does seem to be familiar with throws and grapples.

Her style only incorporates capoeira and Judo, correct? They don’t teach defense against most wrestling techniques as it’s against their rules and way of fighting. She wouldn’t know how to exploit any of them either, as she doesn’t know when to counter.

Oof yeah that's nasty, but again I have to wonder if Austin would come out of it fine getting wailed on by someone twice as strong for two minutes.

True. He seems to have enough endurance to not crumble after a few weak body shots on the ground, even if they’re twice as strong.

And I do have to bring up; how realistic is that sort of path for Austin? At the start of the thread he was described as pretty cocky, And from that Ricochet fight, he does pick up Ricochet, but doesn't go for a submission; just chucks him on the ground, and proceeds to go for a number of strikes. If Austin had Randy's tactics/skills, I would give the win handily to him, but I'm not convinced that that's the case. And Austin would need to pull that sort of thing out >50% of the time to net a win here.

Agreed.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Damn. I wish I didn't have school today.

I'll try to find some time in between school to respond to these comments.

 

[Agnaa]

Rear Naked Choke. She wouldn’t have enough strength/range of motion to break out a limb and punch effectively.

Yeah okay I see. Nasty. Has Austin shown something like that?

Her style only incorporates capoeira and Judo, correct? They don’t teach defense against most wrestling techniques as it’s against their rules and way of fighting. She wouldn’t know how to exploit any of them either, as she doesn’t know when to counter.

You think she'd be taught stuff like this

She acted without hesitation, slipping behind me, swiftly twisting back my arms, and hooking them in place with her knees. Then she strangled me once again, with both of her arms.

A collar lock...no, sleeper hold? With her legs wrapped around my arms, it was an unusual variation, but this wasn't karate either. It was clearly a judo move!

And not taught how to counter it? Or is the stuff I quoted just not relevant enough to this sort of thing?

True. He seems to have enough endurance to not crumble after a few weak body shots on the ground, even if they’re twice as strong.

Fair enough ig.

Damn. I wish I didn't have school today. I'll try to find some time in between school to respond to these comments.

Don't worry about it, we have a grace period for a reason. Education > funny internet discussions.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

And not taught how to counter it? Or is the stuff I quoted just not relevant enough to this sort of thing?

A sleeper hold is what most grappling martial arts teach to beginners. Just because a kickboxing class teaches you judo-like throws/ sweeps, does not mean you can see or defend against an actual Judo practitioner in a Judo match. Same applies here.

They just implemented an effective part of judo, many martial arts take a snippet of what’s of effective in another, using it as their own. The quote is they incorporated techniques from Judo/ Caopeoria. Not that they had whole classes dedicated to defending and learning such.

Even still, my point stands. Judo ≠ wrestling.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Tbh this is all assuming he actual knows what he’s doing.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

Karen FRA.

 

[noninho]

Well, Karen imo is really with more prep.
See, 6 years of wrestling can get you a really nice knowlegde, not going to underestimate it. But Judo, Capoeira and Karate (considering 2nd kyu at judo (sounds reasonable considering she knows moves and her historic with karate) Cordão Verde-e-Amarelo (same reason as Judo. For higher quality image, search on google images) and Shodan 1st Dan , which it's her stated rank) would take even more than that to get, mainly Karate (some schools take 4-5 years for it, and from what's implied, you could argue she achieved it in a handful of months), if it was a regular/above-average human.

Let's consider she got her karate rank in 8 months? Then her minimal-age for it to be accepted (considering Shito Ryu Karate's ranking) being 13, and her profile stating 15, she got something close to 2 years of improving Karate and getting moves of other Martial arts. By being 6 (48 months in 8, in Karate) times faster learner than another humans, she has the equivalent of about 16 years of training (6*(24+8)=192m =16y) :>.

Maybe in-character Karen would have some problems at start, but having a shit-ton of answers for enemy's moves, even having AP advantage would not be enough by the out-technique'ing.
Mid-Diff, Karen vote