Artoria vs Herself: Saber vs Lancer

[SuperKamiNappa]

Flat is Justice, under Rin: 1
Oppai is Truth, regular servant: 1

who wins and why?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Truth of the world, she know everything about her weak self and thus her weakness (be Flat), she also lack the weakness of the other part (she have Oppai), + plus the divine things which make her more powerful (Divine Oppais), my vote obviously go fo Oppai.

(Joke aside she know the other part while Saber don't know about her, she lack the mental weakness of Saber, and I think that in this key she have the things from her divine nature, so my vote go for her and this is in the case that in the end she really get downgraded from her current 6-A)

 

[Rez]

Avalon is not restricted so saber ftw

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Oppai: 1 (Expectro)
Flat: 1 (Rez)

 

[TypeOU]

might need to restrict avalon, the flat one until then

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I mean, Rhongo wouldn't bypass Avalon since it **** the textures of the world? And really, since it was already agreed that Rhongo should be tier 1 and LB 6 ended the crt upgrading the best Artoria need to be made, maybe after the current crt I do it.

 

[Vietthai96]

But iirc Rhongo spear Artoria use is not the true form of it......hmmmmm

 

[TypeOU]

But iirc Rhongo spear Artoria use is not the true form of it......hmmmmm

Yeah, it has its current rating for a reason. Same with excalibur

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

but wouldn't the two of them not immediately start with NP?

 

[TypeOU]

yeah but while lancer artoria is stronger aside from it, it's not enough to get her the win before artoria uses avalon

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

But I mean, even if the pure AP part isn't tier 1 the hax side still is there, right? Rhongo still **** the textures of the world, that's why I think she can bypass Avalon.

 

[TypeOU]

But I mean, even if the pure AP part isn't tier 1 the hax side still is there, right? Rhongo still **** the textures of the world, that's why I think she can bypass Avalon.

didn't seem to work with enuma elish

 

[DaReaperMan]

didn't seem to work with enuma elish

Enuma Elish didn't have Hax in the fate route because it was only a big ass beam attack along with Excalibur. Just better.

 

[TypeOU]

it works pretty much the same way tho, a magic beam restricted in power from 6D(+) to much lower that comes with haxx (which even works in similar ways, tearing the texture of the world)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Except it did none of that in the Fate Route. It was a big ass beam attack that happened to have a wind-style effect.

 

[TypeOU]

and you can say the same about rhongomyniad, its restricted version hasn't been shown to tear the texture of the world, wouldn't be that low in potency if it was. Really, same thing

 

[DaReaperMan]

No shit. I don't recall Saber Artoria using Avalon all that much anyway, it was more of a Last resort.

 

[TypeOU]

she couldn't use it for most of the route tbh, even assuming it's a last resort, again, I don't think lancer artoria is nearly strong enough to win before saber uses it

 

[DaReaperMan]

Lancer one-shot someone who's comparable to Saber. Do you need more?

 

[TypeOU]

when did that happen? do you mean when lion king one shotted gawain? because it wasn't base lancer artoria

 

[DaReaperMan]

"Killed Mordred with a single blow"

right off of her AP section for 6-C. Which causes me to believe the former justification of being comparable to Saber to be shaky. Cause Mordred is definetly comparable to Saber in AP and Dura.

 

[TypeOU]

"Killed Mordred with a single blow"

right off of her AP section for 6-C. Which causes me to believe the former justification of being comparable to Saber to be shaky. Cause Mordred is definetly comparable to Saber in AP and Dura.

when did they even fight? Mordred even won against lancer alter during london, who shouldn't be inferior. Mordred also has equal strength/durability.

 

[DaReaperMan]

when did they even fight? Mordred even won against lancer alter during london, who shouldn't be inferior. Mordred also has equal strength/durability.

When they were among the living. Artoria didn't bring Excalibur to that fight but instead brought rhongomyniad to that fight. The Round Table are some of the people who were actually that powerful when alive.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Not to mention, Mordred had help against Lancer Alter.

 

[TypeOU]

When they were among the living. Artoria didn't bring Excalibur to that fight but instead brought rhongomyniad to that fight. The Round Table are some of the people who were actually that powerful when alive.

iirc she actually brought both but mordred made her drop excalibur. Mordred also one shot her afterwards

 

[DaReaperMan]

iirc she actually brought both but mordred made her drop excalibur. Mordred also one shot her afterwards

So they're glass cannons in AP, still stands that Lancer at least heavily wounds with any attack here.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

when did they even fight? Mordred even won against lancer alter during london, who shouldn't be inferior. Mordred also has equal strength/durability.

iirc it was said that in their battle in life Rhongo Artoria killed Mordred easily, and Vanilla Artoria also didn't used Rhongo at the end of her fight with Mordred?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

iirc she actually brought both but mordred made her drop excalibur. Mordred also one shot her afterwards

Really? Wasn't that Lancer Artoria always used as her main weapon Rhongo?

 

[TypeOU]

So they're glass cannons in AP, still stands that Lancer at least heavily wounds with any attack here.

if the attack hits. That's pretty much true for every servant fight, servant tend to parry or dodge, but when they don't, they're pretty much one shotted

iirc it was said that in their battle in life Rhongo Artoria killed Mordred easily, and Vanilla Artoria also didn't used Rhongo at the end of her fight with Mordred?

again mordred actually got rid of excalibur, and later one shotted artoria with a weapon inferior to excalibur. Also do we even scale living selves to their servant form?

 

[TypeOU]

Really? Wasn't that Lancer Artoria always used as her main weapon Rhongo?

it was panhuman artoria. The anime definitively showed that, gonna check the novel

 

[DaReaperMan]

For some characters we scale their living selves to their servant form, anyone coming from the Round Table are some of them. Others I can remember include Siegfried and Sigurd, Musashi, Achilles, Hector, Ozymandius, Caster Gil, Sanzang, Beowulf, Brynhildr, Heracles, Bunyan, and Penthesilea.

 

[TypeOU]

the manga depicts the true name release too (or at least mana burst)

garden of avalon doesn't show the whole fight

and the novel is way too long so I dunno

For some characters we scale their living selves to their servant form, anyone coming from the Round Table are some of them. Others I can remember include Siegfried and Sigurd, Musashi, Achilles, Hector, Ozymandius, Caster Gil, Sanzang, Beowulf, Brynhildr, Heracles, Bunyan, and Penthesilea.

so much for the fame buff and gawain being as strong as the other knights even during night as a servant I guess

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean, Caster Gil and Musashi actually fought servants when they were alive, so I dont know for sure if it counts lol

 

[TypeOU]

Musashi is a pretty obvious servant level yeah. Bedivere is at least a bit below but he should be somewhat around servant level too. The others were pretty much just servants with a few extra steps. The thing's, it doesn't really help to know that because servants get fame boost and skills

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, they didn't have servant physiology in life, but that's only if they scales to servants or not and the answer for those peeps is yes lol

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I mean, just the fact that Vanilla had a harder time in life against Mordred in life compared with the Best Artoria mean that there are a difference in power, and the fact that even Vanilla used Rhongo to end the fight against Mordred give more points to Rhongo.

 

[TypeOU]

I mean, just the fact that Vanilla had a harder time in life against Mordred in life compared with the Best Artoria mean that there are a difference in power, and the fact that even Vanilla used Rhongo to end the fight against Mordred give more points to Rhongo.

both are the same person tho? What is your point, "vanilla artoria is stronger than vanilla artoria"? Really, she used rhongomyniad because excalibur had lost in power and mordred could make her drop it. They are supposed to be equal for a reason

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

both are the same person tho?

Not exactly tho? One focused mainly in Excaliburn and the other focused mainly in Rhongo, the hax of both weapons are really different and the effects in the user is also incomparable, it's because of Rhongo that existed the Lion King and it's because of Rhongo that Lancer Artoria is an existence closer to that of a Divine Spirit.

 

[TypeOU]

Not exactly tho? One focused mainly in Excaliburn and the other focused mainly in Rhongo, the hax of both weapons are really different and the effects in the user is also incomparable, it's because of Rhongo that existed the Lion King and it's because of Rhongo that Lancer Artoria is an existence closer to that of a Divine Spirit.

except that it litterally happened during the same fight. both were alive artoria, the one that tends to use excalibur, she simply changed weapon midfight and won (but also died) with the second one.