Armament Haki change (the sequel)

[SnookB]

@SnookB; it wasn't as big.

Kaidou even tells them that their hit was too shallow on him compared to Oden's attack.

Don't take 'shallow' too literally. He could've meant anything from 'not deep' to 'sloppy'. Their Haki wasn't as good. And same as KT said- Luffy was busting his organs over and over again and he called his usage of CoC infusion 'shallow'. Shallow in this case is literally anything that isn't good enough to leave permanent injury on him.
Also-
@KingTempest
What's the comparaison with NNT's ability? I can't say I've kept up with their CRTs to understand the similiarity there

 

[KingTempest]

.Also-
@KingTempest
What's the comparaison with NNT's ability? I can't say I've kept up with their CRTs to understand the similiarity there

Ban can regenerate from drops of blood but hellblaze can leave scars on him

 

[SnookB]

Ban can regenerate from drops of blood but hellblaze can leave scars on him

Sounds about similiar.
Zoans physically regenerate from deep gashes and burns but strong enough Haki leaves permanent scars on them. I guess limited regen is fine, so long as it's not exclusive to non-natural anymore since Zoans clearly prove that to be otherwise.

 

[SnookB]

Bumpin' bump

 

[SnookB]

Bump

 

[Eminiteable]

Bump

 

[SnookB]

Limited Regeneration Negation (Tier; Users of superior Busoshoku can leave scars where others failed to because of superior Busoshoku negating their negation).

Limited Regeneration Negation was suggested. I think it's fair, considering scars remain and all.
I'm assuming it'd seperate natural regen neg from the already existing one as seperate abilities, so specifying it would be needed.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I think it's fair, considering scars remain and all.

Yee but like... Haki as far as we know doesn't negate biological/born regen... Haki affects things like devil fruits but both have haki which mitigate stuff... So I don't think that just because there's a scar... That it should be limited with taking all into account

Basically it's not an anti feat for the regen neg... Garp punched Marco's true body... Marco couldn't regen that with his devil fruit.... I don't see the limited, what I see is just regen neg not affecting their born regeneration...

But yee... saying this just incase...

 

[SnookB]

Yee but like... Haki as far as we know doesn't negate biological/born regen...

Except we literally see it do that. Several stabs, slashes, gashes, and whatnot on Kaido's body were gone in seconds. Yet Zoro and Oden's haki was powerful enough to bypass his regen.
Queen had giant talon slashes on his face that were gone again in moments. Every Zoan's shown the ability to recover from wounds with their natural body's ability, Kaido being the best example who's regen was negged by Haki.

So I don't think that just because there's a scar... That it should be limited with taking all into account

It's how it worked with NNT. An attack that leaves a scar on a character who can regen is considered limited, not true regen neg.
Remember, it's only limited against Zoan/Natural regen, but non-natural regen Haki negs just fine as far as we've seen. This isn't meant to be a haki downgrade, just another layer on how it effects regeneration that's natural to one's DNA

 

[Damage3245]

Except we literally see it do that. Several stabs, slashes, gashes, and whatnot on Kaido's body were gone in seconds. Yet Zoro and Oden's haki was powerful enough to bypass his regen.

Zoro's and Oden's attacks are far greater damage than the earlier hits he was hit by. The injuries they dealt him are not going to fade away in seconds.

 

[SnookB]

Zoro's and Oden's attacks are far greater damage than the earlier hits he was hit by. The injuries they dealt him are not going to fade away in seconds.

Damage doesn't determine what heals and what doesn't. The scabbards pierced his body. Zoro pierced his body. Hell the Tougen Totsuka x4 was a BIGGER WOUND than Zoro's Ashura and Zoro's still the one that left the scar. It has nothing to do with damage and everything to do with the haki output needed to stun his regen.

 

[Damage3245]

Damage doesn't determine what heals and what doesn't. The scabbards pierced his body. Zoro pierced his body. Hell the Tougen Totsuka x4 was a BIGGER WOUND than Zoro's Ashura and Zoro's still the one that left the scar. It has nothing to do with damage and everything to do with the haki output needed to stun his regen.

Proportionally speaking, the wound that the 4 Scabbards dealt simultaneously is much smaller on Kaidou's dragon body than the wound that Zoro dealt him in his hybrid form. Their cut was so shallow that they could only succeed in re-opening his existing scar. Zoro created a brand new scar on his body.

Haki output does not affect natural biological regeneration. Kaidou has been hitting Luffy with godly amounts of Haki throughout his fight and Luffy healed up just fine afterwards.

 

[SnookB]

Proportionally speaking, the wound that the 4 Scabbards dealt simultaneously is much smaller on Kaidou's dragon body than the wound that Zoro dealt him in his hybrid form. Their cut was so shallow that they could only succeed in re-opening his existing scar. Zoro created a brand new scar on his body.

Haki output does not affect natural biological regeneration. Kaidou has been hitting Luffy with godly amounts of Haki throughout his fight and Luffy healed up just fine afterwards.

Look at that same wound on his regular body.
Hell, literally the chapters after that same wound was gone. Literally fully recovered and clean. Not even a secondary smaller scar was left or even light lines to show it was still healing.
Zoro's slash on the other hand has a statement by that same guy that it's leaving a scar. Damage and the size of the wound has nothing to do with it. Hell, even Enma having regen neg doesn't work entirely here because Kaido was damaged by the tatsumaki and never stated anything about it leaving a scar then. It's just haki output. Zoro's maximum output was enough to stun Kaido's regeneration to the point of it leaving a scar.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think anyone suggested that just Enma could have regen negation.

 

[SnookB]

I know. I'm just taking out that argument before it gets to it.
It's obvious that a certain haki output is what's needed to stump a Zoan's regen. So I'm changing the proposal to Limited Regeneration Negation (Mid-Low) when it comes to natural regen.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Except we literally see it do that. Several stabs, slashes, gashes, and whatnot on Kaido's body were gone in seconds. Yet Zoro and Oden's haki was powerful enough to bypass his regen.
Queen had giant talon slashes on his face that were gone again in moments. Every Zoan's shown the ability to recover from wounds with their natural body's ability, Kaido being the best example who's regen was negged by Haki.

Those are zoan users... Still not their born regen tho, works differently

It's how it worked with NNT. An attack that leaves a scar on a character who can regen is considered limited, not true regen neg.
Remember, it's only limited against Zoan/Natural regen, but non-natural regen Haki negs just fine as far as we've seen. This isn't meant to be a haki downgrade, just another layer on how it effects regeneration that's natural to one's DNA

This is a completely different situation to that feat... Otherwise we should give limited resistance negation, limited Elemental Intangibility Negation

Because here

and here

they weren't fully negated

 

[SnookB]

Those are zoan users... Still not their born regen tho, works differently

Monkey, did you read the OP? The Zoan fruits are literally replicated by taking the DNA of the user. It's literally within their biology.

This is a completely different situation to that feat... Otherwise we should give limited resistance negation, limited Elemental Intangibility Negation

Because here

and here

None of those things are limited anything.
Doflamingo has negated Luffy's rubber physiollogy with haki before, but Luffy's G4 Haki resists that negation and keeps him rubber.

The second instance is one of "lesser haki" being unable to hurt greater one. There's a different CRT altogether about Akainu getting hit, but his body keeping its logia properties becuase his haki's greater. Just another instance of resistance to negation.

 

[KingTempest]

This is a completely different situation to that feat... Otherwise we should give limited resistance negation, limited Elemental Intangibility Negation

Because here

and here

they weren't fully negated

mf those are resistances

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

mf those are resistances

... Same with regen neg... Those who don't have strong enough haki won't be able to regen neg someone with stronger haki...

 

[SnookB]

... Same with regen neg... Those who don't have strong enough haki won't be able to regen neg someone with stronger haki...

That's not how that works. Stronger haki allowing logia to remain intangible isn't the same as someone who's already tangible and can get damaged. You're confusing yourself.
One's still resistance, the other isn't.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Hmm?....

 

[SnookB]

Hmm?....

One's resistance to resistance negation. The other is just haki negating an ability that's biological. The first is resistance, the second is not.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

One's resistance to resistance negation.

And the other is resistance to regen negation via stronger haki

The other is just haki negating an ability that's biological. The first is resistance, the second is not.

It can be one

But that's something different unrelated to the op

The ones I brought up were negations... Literally the same as regen neg, not sure how that's different at all

 

[SnookB]

The ones I brought up were negations... Literally the same as regen neg, not sure how that's different at all

One is non-natural, Elemental regen. The other is regular and within the character's DNA. DF users with stronger haki can negate the negation of another's haki and keep their non-solid form.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

DF users with stronger haki can negate the negation of another's haki and keep their non-solid form.

No they don't negate their negation of Haki... They resist it, the stronger haki you have the more you'll negate their regen, the weaker haki they have... the less you'll resist them negating your regen, your intangibility and more.

One is non-natural, Elemental regen.

One is accelerating natural regen (Marco), the other is kinda biological/DNA regen in a way (Zoan type regen)

 

[SnookB]

One is accelerating natural regen (Marco)

accelerating natural regen via phoenix flames is still non-natural regen entirely. His base wouldn't heal as fast otherwise, unlike Kaido's base which we've seen do that.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

accelerating natural regen via phoenix flames is still non-natural regen entirely. His base wouldn't heal as fast otherwise, unlike Kaido's base which we've seen do that.

I know... But you said elemental regen and non natural regen which hints of something else entirely, so I said accelerated natural regen

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Bump

So what's the proposal? Has it changed from the op?

In conclusion: Devil Fruits (or at the very least Zoans) can alter one's DNA, and the regeneration of a Zoan is natural to their genetic code rather than it being a layered form of regen like Logia users. This means Haki's Regen negation shouldn't be limited. This isn't DEVIL FRUIT REGENERATION NEGATION, it's negating the very genetic code that allows a Zoan like Marco to regenerate.

like this literally does not make sense to me at all... Could you explain?

You say devil fruits can alter DNA (Zoans) and that it's natural regen... Then you say This isn't DEVIL FRUIT REGENERATION NEGATION

hmm?

Are you trying to say that since it's not just... I forgot what I was going to say, are you trying to say it's not just for devil fruits since those devil fruits in particular was natural regen, so its not devil fruit regen neg?

 

[KingTempest]

Bump

So what's the proposal? Has it changed from the op?

like this literally does not make sense to me at all... Could you explain?

You say devil fruits can alter DNA (Zoans) and that it's natural regen... Then you say This isn't DEVIL FRUIT REGENERATION NEGATION

hmm?

Are you trying to say that since it's not just... I forgot what I was going to say, are you trying to say it's not just for devil fruits since those devil fruits in particular was natural regen, so its not devil fruit regen neg?

What?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What?

Idk... Could you explain it?

 

[SnookB]

Bump

So what's the proposal? Has it changed from the op?

like this literally does not make sense to me at all... Could you explain?

You say devil fruits can alter DNA (Zoans) and that it's natural regen... Then you say This isn't DEVIL FRUIT REGENERATION NEGATION

hmm?

Are you trying to say that since it's not just... I forgot what I was going to say, are you trying to say it's not just for devil fruits since those devil fruits in particular was natural regen, so its not devil fruit regen neg?

jesus

 

[SnookB]

Haki vs Logia regen = Regeneration negation (Non-natural regen like Phoenix flames healing)
Haki vs Zoan regen = Limited regeneration negation for leaving scars on characters who usually heal clean after regular attacks (biological, so basic regen neg)

Got it?

Edited the conclusion bit in OP so it's a little less contradicting to the suggestion.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Haki vs Logia regen = Regeneration negation (Non-natural regen like Phoenix flames healing)
Haki vs Zoan regen = Limited regeneration negation for leaving scars on characters who usually heal clean after regular attacks (biological, so basic regen neg)

Got it?

Sure

 

[Eminiteable]

bump