• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
7,951
6,155

Introduction​

Hey, everybody.

As we all probably are aware of, Archie’s Base cast has been Low 2-C for a while now. I’m here with a little bit of extra justification for the ratings to make it more solid, which doubles as an AP buff for a few of the characters who scale. Let’s get into it.

AP Updates ("Do I look like I need your power?")​

Most of what the AP adjustments come from are individual Chaos Emeralds. As seen at the tail-end of the battle between Super Sonic and Hyper Knuckles, the zone they fought in was completely destroyed. But at the end of this endeavor, Knuckles returns to Mighty with a Chaos Emerald that survived the zone’s explosive collapse. Note that this Chaos Emerald isn’t anything special, as there’s an abundance of green Chaos Emeralds lying around by this time in Archie’s Prime zone (as it’s before the Great Harmony). It’s even in the profiles as we speak in the Chaos Emerald page. Additionally, half a Chaos Emerald can create a single zone.

This is a good thing to note, because Knuckles nonchalantly shatters one in a moment of frustration (no wind-up or charging prior, just one good swing). In fact, Knuckle' power is so great that a member from the Brotherhood of Guardians could detect Knuckles’ energy from another zone and compared the unbelievable amount of energy akin to a living Chaos Emerald. Not really much else to say here, since this stuff seems to speak for itself.

The Adjustments​

With all that out of the way, it’s time to talk about what this means for the AP of the top-tier Base Cast. Instead of being just vaguely above baseline Low 2-C, those who reliably scale to Knuckles get an “At least Low 2-C” rating. Even if a single Chaos Emerald were to be 2-C from half of one performing a Low 2-C feat, a Chaos Emerald has only been shown to be capable of tanking a Low 2-C explosion. However, to its benefit, it wasn’t damaged from such a thing either. 2-C seems like it’d just be for a potential “Single Chaos Emerald” key if anything.

In layman's terms, Knuckles can casually destroy a Chaos Emerald that’s completely unscathed from Low 2-C destruction and him having energy "akin" to one. Below, I’ll throw out a recommendation on what Knuckles’ AP section could look like.

Other​

When Knuckles lost his Chaos Powers after his return from “death”, Sonic considered him “weak as a kitten” and acknowledged the fact that Knuckles could no longer glide. Though the former seems like a playful jab in the context of that panel, there seems to be some truth to it. He had lost enough strength that Julie-Su became wary of him entering battle, as well as him struggling with dingos that Sonic had no issue with knocking around. Though this was eventually reverted after Knuckles detransformed from Hyper, with his powers and strength returning to him in the process. I was thinking about making a Depowered key, but I think it’s redundant. It’s just Knuckles, but weaker and with no powers and just his (nerfed) strength.

The reason I note this is because some characters such as Espio simply have “Is comparable to Knuckles” in their AP section. Which is absolutely not the case unless we say it's a Depowered Knuckles he's comparable to, as one of those dingos match blows with him. It’s a hectic one, but in the same panel; Mighty knocks two of them unconscious without even looking, Ray seems to be dead-even with one, Vector is in combat with a snarky (casual?) smile, Charmy is dealing with multiple by using his speed (to which I think this proves he’s the fastest of The Chaotix, and would go in his speed section). This aligns with Sonic casually dealing with them when his body was controlled by Robotnik, so him dealing with a bunch of dingos at once is consistent. He even punks the son of their General.
  • I don’t have it planned out for all of them, but the AP of several Chaotix members (and Speed if necessary) get adjusted from what I’ve presented above (and I'm feeling lazy since it's nearing 12 AM so sue me lol)

Conclusion (& Knuckles)​

… And that just about covers everything. The top tiers get some further elaboration and an AP “upgrade”, with the lower tiers getting some attention this time around as well with greater depth to their scaling. No hax additions this time, just plain and simple AP and scaling matters. Maybe next time, huh?
 
Last edited:
100% agree with the scaling!

I spoke briefly privately with Shake on this but have been in a weird, unmotivated funk for the past few months(more so the last few weeks) to help further and put anything in writing so this is all kodus from you, Shake!🥳
 
Last edited:
Considering this in no way changes AP, I'm sure another staff member or two should do. It's really just fixing wrong AP justifications and updating old ones. I'll try and get some others
 
Hold your horses!
Inverse square law but for four dimensions is still a thing, so the further away the chaos emerald is from the clash that made the zone collapse, the less energy it will have to take to tank it.

So at worst that feat is a Low 1-C outlier, and at best it’s an irrelevant Low 2-C supporting feat which is way under every other low 2-C feat.

Rest is fine though.
 
So at worst that feat is a Low 1-C outlier, and at best it’s an irrelevant Low 2-C supporting feat which is way under every other low 2-C feat.
Issue.

Super Forms at this time aren't Low 1-C, as it's Pre-Great Harmony and this falls in that period where Super Forms are just treated vastly above their base. There was even talks for a Low 2-C Super Sonic key a year and some back, though nothing came of it.

So even if it was at the epicenter, it'd be scaling to a Low 2-C Super Sonic and Hyper Knuckles. Which isn't reflected in the profiles, but maybe that can come about from another thread. A temporary solution would be a note, maybe on the verse page or something so we don't get "A Chaos Emerald has Low 1-C durability" and such.

So, if anything, they'd be "1000x Baseline Low 2-C". In-line with the Freedom Fighters taking hits from Mogul, who also said his power increased a thousandfold. So good catch.
 
Last edited:
Aight, great. Does Elixir agree with this? Cause he never mentioned anything about this to me.
Yes siree, I believe he was there for it. I'll let him respond to that though.
but weren't chaos emeralds at the time still physical manifestations of the chaos force? or does that not mean anything
That doesn't actually mean much. Imagine a sink faucet as the Chaos Emeralds, and the water flowing out is Chaos Energy. That could probably be removed from the AP description tbh.
 
Last edited:
Just finished adjusting the AP sections of The Chaotix. Anything else that needs to be done here aside from the Chaos Emerald stuff?
 
Just finished adjusting the AP sections of The Chaotix. Anything else that needs to be done here aside from the Chaos Emerald stuff?
For this Knuckles’ scaling… perhaps the Brotherhood. They do scale relatively to Knuckles and Tobor notes all Brotherhood members wield Chaos Energy but Knuckles equals that of a Chaos Emerald.

Also, now Sonic's durability justification gets Knuckles as a valid notable scaling
 
Last edited:
You mean aside from the 300+ instances where Zones are referred to being universes? Better yet, I think there's even like 2 different blogs on the manner. If I can find them, we can add them to the universe page.
 
Back
Top