Arceus ability

[The_real_cal_howard]

Since he can naturally learn Perish Song, Arceus should have death manipulation, simple as that.

 

[Talonmask]

I suppose that it makes sense, but Perish Song functions more as a double-edged sword then anything, as it applies to the one using it as well.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I thought about that as well, however, it's still his ability, and all he needs to do to negate it is temporarily BFR himself.

 

[DontTalk]

Have we ever seen how perish song works outside of game mechanics?


I am uncertain if BFR would work to negate it, as it is not quite the same as going into a pokèball.


Also it would not be death manipulation, I think, given that the effect is stated as

"Any battler that hears this faints in three turns unless it switches."

What a turn would be outside game mechanics is also questionable.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Actually, yes, it does show perish song. In the anime (3 times) and the manga (once). They sing a song, and the pokemon hearing it faints. I made sure to check before posting this. However, you're right about the death manipulation part. That's not death manipulation as much as fainting manipulation (yes, I'm aware that's not a thing.)

About self-BFR'ing working, the legendary beasts (and roaming pokemon in general) are able to escape it by running across the country.

 

[Talonmask]

In regards to the fainting.

While the choice of wording is what makes it debatable, that would suggest that whenever Arceus attacks someone within the Pokemonverse, they only faint and aren't killed, despite being way below Arceus' tiering and the fact he would be putting actual effort in.

 

[DontTalk]

So less BFR than just get away from your original position by a sufficient amount.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Hmm. Just checked Mystery Dungeon's Perish Song, and it follows you until you use a healing item or change floors. But yes, for the main series at least.

Also, checked for its use in the anime too. It's only used once successfully. The other time was in a contest, and the final time, the opposing pokemon knocked the user (an Absol) out.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Definitly something to add (Though i'm fairly sure Arceus is the strongest 2-C even without it)

 

[FictionalBlade101]

If the user only faints then could it be some kind of energy drain? Or stamina drain? Something like this?

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

He has probability manipulation with super luck and lucky chant.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Another thing about Arceus. Shouldn't he be able to learn any move that the Creation and Lake trio should naturally learn, as he directly created them?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Another thing about Arceus. Shouldn't he be able to learn any move that the Creation and Lake trio should naturally learn, as he directly created them?

I agree. Ignoring game mechanics, there really isnt a good reason why Arceus can't learn there (or even any move period) moves, especially since with the life plates he can become that certain type and have the potential to learn the move of said type

The only time this isnt excepted is in gameplay and they would never make such an overpowered pokemon with nearly to all moves available to lots of ppl otherwise it would cause such a huge mess. But lore wise, since it created and governs the multiverse, should it be able to learn more moves?

 

[RadicalMrR]

He has probability manipulation with super luck and lucky chant

Yeah I think that does it

 

[FictionalBlade101]

But listing probability manipulation would probably be pointless. Arceus already has reality warping and probablity manipulation is a step down from that.

 

[RadicalMrR]

bump

 

[Aparajita]

I think adding in the other things that Arecus has, like whatever we've decided that Perish Song is and probability manipulation is a good idea.

Also, he created Victini, who is literally the concept of Victory.

Does Arecus has conceptual maniuplation?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

He does have conceptual manipulation, due to creating the concepts of time, space, anitmatter, knowledge, emotion, and willpower.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Maybe a OHK move instead of death manipulation?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That works better.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Now we just gotta see if an admin thinks this is okay.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Well, I am not going to agree with death manipulation. For the sole reason that it causes the victim to "faint". However I can settle with something like sleep manipulation or any abilities related to making people faint etc.

 

[RadicalMrR]

But in pokemon there are things that make a pokemon go to sleep but the battle won't end until they aren't phisically able to fight.

So perish song pretty much incapacitates them thats why one hit knockout suits it better

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

OHK Perish song is fine, can't say the same for the other prepositions.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, OHK is probably fine as we define it as not necessarily killing.

Though it should be noted on the profile that perish song only makes the opponents faint and takes some time to activate during which a character can negate the effect by leaving the place perish song was used.

btw. when it comes to the different attacks that pokèmon might learn how do we decide which are their official moveset? Basically every media limits it to 4 moves, I think.

 

[Aparajita]

There is no official moveset, it's up to the interuptations of the players or viewers.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Well it is just game mechanics and even in the anime there are pokemon that have more then 4 moves and they have never given a reason as to why 4 is the limit so a composite version is the best way to go at it.

 

[RadicalMrR]

So to sum things up

Lucky chantrobablity Manipulation

Perish song:OHK (with some notes)

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well, OHK is probably fine as we define it as not necessarily killing.

Though it should be noted on the profile that perish song only makes the opponents faint and takes some time to activate during which a character can negate the effect by leaving the place perish song was used.

btw. when it comes to the different attacks that pokèmon might learn how do we decide which are their official moveset? Basically every media limits it to 4 moves, I think.

I've addressed this before so I'll quote what I've said previously.

"A Dragonite used six moves against Ash's Pokemon in the Orange League Championship battle.

An Alakazam in the episode Power Play uses 7 attacks continuously.

Even a Snorlax can use more than four moves."

These examples only include the usage of multiple moves in a single battle.

If we go by story arcs, Mewtwo, Deoxys and Pikachu all learned multiple moves.

In the Pokemon Rangers game it gets rather absurd, to the point where Pokemon can learn six-ten moves.

The manga isn't much better, as the Pokemon can use attacks that don't even have canonical origins.

Hence in the face of such inconsistencies and the fact, as has been stated, there's no official declaration of how many moves a Pokemon can learn, we rate them by the moves they learn in nature (meaning no TMs or tutors which are achieved through artificial means) and the moves they show in secondary and tertiary canon whether or not they are listed in the abilities they naturally gain.

That being said:

So to sum things up

Lucky chantrobablity Manipulation

Perish song:OHK (with some notes)

None of the staff members agreed with Arceus gaining Probability manipulation.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Just to be sure (and out of curiosity), is everyone clear on the fact perish song also KO's the pokemon who uses the move aswell as the opponent?

Just hoping this isn't overlooked.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Huh. I thought I was forgetting something...

 

[RadicalMrR]

Well mighty do you think Lucky chant should be considered probablity manipulation?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Aizen. I believe that was addressed originally. At the very least, I'm well aware.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Well mighty do you think Lucky chant should be considered probablity manipulation?

Arceus has never used Lucky Chant and the description in-game is too vague to automatically list it as such not to mention in various other media it seems to be a normal attack.

 

[Aparajita]

Lucky Chant is not an attack, it's a status effect like growl or trick room.

"The user chants an incantation toward the sky, preventing the foe from landing critical hits."

It's probability manipulation.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I mean, I'm not that much of a Pokemon expert, but Lucky Chant does sound like Probability Manipulation from the description.

 

[Aparajita]

What about Emotion Manipulation via Attract (Makes the opposite gender infatuated.), Charm (A move that charms the target into complacency)

Camouflage

The Ability to copy moves via Copycat, Mimic, Mirror Move,

Fate Manipulation via Destiny Bond? (if the user faints, the Pokémon that landed the knockout hit also faints.)

Magnetic Manipulation via Magnetic Flux (The user manipulates magnetic fields)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Arceus likely already has Emotion Manipulation via creating Mesprit, no?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

I mean, I'm not that much of a Pokemon expert, but Lucky Chant does sound like Probability Manipulation from the description.

Again, an entirely too vague description. Super luck has a similar one but in one case it only involves the usage of enhanced senses to land greater damage on the opponent whilst the other involves actual probability manipulation.

Palkia's already shown to use spatial manipulation to imitate invisibility so camouflage would be redundant.

I don't see anything wrong with destiny bond.

I have no idea how Arceus would be viable for magnetic flux, and Multi-Universal reality Warping>>>magnetic manipulation.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Arceus likely already has Emotion Manipulation via creating Mesprit, no?

Yes.