Antispiral VS Mister Mxyzptlk

[Vondoom]

Reality warping mixed plot manipulation first.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

So would doing this actually kill Antispiral?

 

[Vondoom]

He can transmutate him to anything, since he knows the plot point that's an advantage also.

 

[Primordial_Predominant]

No, we're not assuming the home world is present. Antispiral, in-verse, has left the Super Spiral Universe before in his fight against Lordgenome's fleet

We have to though. He's a conjured thought based being of a race so the race has to exist for him to even be. Unless, we use a hypothetical convinience to make it so that he can exist independantly.

I don't have any reason to believe that the "your chances of winning here are absolutely 0" statement would be good enough proof for probability manipulation. And the probability thing (still in their universe) in episode 26 was done by the Ashtanga, not by Antispiral themselves

Dude, saying Antispiral doesnt have spiral power because he's called the "antispiral" is less blatant a conjecture than to attribute to him the ability to manipulate probability via literally creating the Ashtanga and the narrative implication of each following threat being superior to the ones that prelude it is obvious. It's basic power scaling.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

We have to though. He's a conjured thought based being of a race so the race has to exist for him to even be. Unless, we use a hypothetical convinience to make it so that he can exist independantly.

Oh yeah, I forgot lol. They don't have to exist in the same plane of existence or universe as Antispiral, but I guess they would need to be in the same verse to make it work, since it is technically an entire race fighting together. So maybe the home world could still be between the 10th and 11th dimensions.

Dude, saying Antispiral doesnt have spiral power because he's called the "antispiral"

(And because Final Drill says Antispiral does not have Spiral Power)

is less blatant a conjecture than to attribute to him the ability to manipulate probability via literally creating the Ashtanga and the narrative implication of each following threat being superior to the ones that prelude it is obvious

There is a thread going on here talking about if creators should automatically get their creations abilities, and short answer is no. Lordgenome created the Gunmen, it doesn't mean he can protrude drills from his body like Lagann

 

[BluudyManikin777]

He can transmutate him to anything, since he knows the plot point that's an advantage also.

Can Mxyzptlk do Plot Manipulation or Reality Warping before Antispiral paralyzes him? All they have to do is look at each other

 

[Vondoom]

No he can't but he can teleport away.

 

[Primordial_Predominant]

There is a thread going on here talking about if creators should automatically get their creations abilities, and short answer is no. Lordgenome created the Gunmen, it doesn't mean he can protrude drills from his body like Lagann

Sure even if creators are not to get their creations abilities this is very different. Gunmen are more engineered than created.I know how that sounds I'll elucidate, the analogy for Lordegenome and the gunmen does horribly here by the way that seems more like a physiology constraint which the antispiral wouldn't have also he probably could do it late into the story. The Antispirals relation with it's creations is very different, in fact the Ashtanga shouldn't even get a separate profile or at least should also be included in the Antispirals arsenal in their profile. It's not so much even the creator creation dynamic but rather the power scaling itslef literally requires antispiral to have probability negation if not manipulation. I just rewatched episode 24 through 27, and Lordgenome states that that universe is fabricated and they have complete control over it meaning the can create a universe with probability space. Because the Ashtanga fight Dai-Gurren within this fabircated universe where they use "probability space". So going off that, not only can the manipulate probability but can construct an entire universe with a separate dimension that allow for probability to be altered either that or they still have access to the probability space of the regular universe in which case they can always utilize probability manipulation (it's be passive given that probability space is a prerequisite in cross verse battle) regardless of where they are. In one scene we can see him trying tank TTGLs projectiles head one with the quote "that won't work!" this heavily indicates the probability negation power which is then cancelled out by TTGL own probability altering missiles. And the "you're chances of winning here are absolutely 0!" quote is just another one that gives more value to this scenario and the power scaling in general (well ability scaling in this case).

 

[BluudyManikin777]

The Antispirals relation with it's creations is very different, in fact the Ashtanga shouldn't even get a separate profile or at least should also be included in the Antispirals arsenal in their profile

They'd still need their own statistics and P&As, so they do need a profile.

It's not so much even the creator creation dynamic but rather the power scaling itslef literally requires antispiral to have probability negation if not manipulation

Having more power than someone means you have their powers and abilities too? Seems flawed

I just rewatched episode 24 through 27, and Lordgenome states that that universe is fabricated and they have complete control over it meaning the can create a universe with probability space. Because the Ashtanga fight Dai-Gurren within this fabircated universe where they use "probability space". So going off that, not only can the manipulate probability but can construct an entire universe with a separate dimension that allow for probability to be altered

Antispiral creating a universe is difficult to debate with, especially when they haven't done it in character, because we don't know if the Super Spiral Universe was actually created via their whim or if it was born with them, since Antispiral is "The Universe Itself"

In one scene we can see him trying tank TTGLs projectiles head one with the quote "that won't work!" this heavily indicates the probability negation power which is then cancelled out by TTGL own probability altering missiles. And the "you're chances of winning here are absolutely 0!" quote is just another one that gives more value to this scenario and the power scaling in general (well ability scaling in this case).

That statement is a bit tempting to use as a way to imply probability manipulation, but even then, it would warrant a likely rating at best.

 

[Primordial_Predominant]

Having more power than someone means you have their powers and abilities too? Seems flawed

Thats how power scaling works. It's only flawed if not narratively consistent. And it's not really power. It's an ability Simon and co actively had to overcome so it's only make sense that the entity pulling the strings would have it seeing as it bestows said abilities on his pawns and should be able to use them to a higher degree.

Antispiral creating a universe is difficult to debate with, especially when they haven't done it in character, because we don't know if the Super Spiral Universe was actually created via their whim or if it was born with them, since Antispiral is "The Universe Itself"

Super Spiral Universe is different from the Anti Spirals Universe. I'll rewatch to make sure though.

That statement is a bit tempting to use as a way to imply probability manipulation, but even then, it would warrant a likely rating at best.

It is what it is.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

It's an ability Simon and co actively had to overcome

Antispiral never held back when actually facing against Dai-Gurren; it was Antispiral's strength that they had to overcome basically.

it's only make sense that the entity pulling the strings would have it seeing as it bestows said abilities on his pawns and should be able to use them to a higher degree

It doesn't really make sense. You can create another being, and they can learn things you can't, or you create that being to do something specific that you yourself can't do.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I'm voting for Mxyzptlk simply because of how much of an advantage plot manipulation gives him

 

[Primordial_Predominant]

Antispiral never held back when actually facing against Dai-Gurren; it was Antispiral's strength that they had to overcome basically.

What? dude you've watched the show right? Thats his entire shtick. The very concept of absolute despair functions on instilling a sense of hopelesness by defeating them in an even playing field very few villians in any held back as much as antispiral did.

It doesn't really make sense. You can create another being, and they can learn things you can't, or you create that being to do something specific that you yourself can't do.

Sounds like head cannon. It's the same narrative powered scaling used for Portal Creation in DBZ; Anyone stronger than Super Buu can shout/scream open a space bypass although no one has been shown to perform the feat apart from Super Buu and Gotenks SSJ3.

 

[Vondoom]

Voting Mister myxptlk also

 

[BluudyManikin777]

What? dude you've watched the show right? Thats his entire shtick. The very concept of absolute despair functions on instilling a sense of hopelesness by defeating them in an even playing field very few villians in any held back as much as antispiral did.

Final Drill states that there was an actual power difference between Dai-Gurren and Antispiral in the beginning of the battle. So yes, I’ve watched the show, and I’ve read the books

Sounds like head cannon

Saying Antispiral has probability manipulation even when there’s no direct implications, let alone proof, sounds like headcanon

 

[ShionAH]

Mister I can't spell your name FRA

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[Iiliminal]

Mxy FRA

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Votes are 0-4-0

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[Iiliminal]

Simon vs mxy ?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Simon vs mxy ?

Would be best to wait for revisions to go through, because the profiles are very outdated

 

[Vondoom]

Would be best to wait for revisions to go through, because the profiles are very outdated

True also why I'm not fully convinced since Antispiral page is a mess.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[Vietthai96]

It's the same narrative powered scaling used for Portal Creation in DBZ; Anyone stronger than Super Buu can shout/scream open a space bypass although no one has been shown to perform the feat apart from Super Buu and Gotenks SSJ3

It is not the same, portal feat was supported by guidebook, and was latter being replicated by DBS and Game verse such as DBH

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[Iiliminal]

what is there to bump?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Yeah it’s a stomp close It

 

[Vondoom]

Yeah it’s a stomp close It

How?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

How?

wait it isn't a stomp?

 

[Vondoom]

Dosen't seem so

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[Iiliminal]

mxy would prob get slammed by the doctor who High 1-Cs

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[Iiliminal]

why bump

 

[BluudyManikin777]

why bump

why not? There's only 3 votes left, we might as well finish it

 

[Iiliminal]

true

 

[Knifeman29]

mixy spittle lick fra