Antinomy of Common Flowers revisions

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

As the translations regarding Antinomy of Common Flowers have been mostly completed, we can probably proceed with the changes this game has brought.

First of, Doremy Sweet has probably the most amount of changes, both AP, and abilities. It is rather big compared to the rest of the thread.

-Several abilities: Portal Creation (Can create portals to the Dream World), Creation (Can create items out of thin air), likely Spatial Manipulation (Can use her portals to the Dream World offensively by directly cutting the opponent), Duplication (Can split her body in order to create clones of her with equal power to the original), likely Existence Erasure (Stated that she can erase dreams. Dreams are physical existence and not just thoughts within Touhou), Homing Attack (Her Sheep SIgn spellcard lets her spam homing sheeps), Teleportation (She teleports on the battlefield as part of her battle entrance)

-Originally, 4-A for Doremy was rejected, as the stars shown within the Dream World weren't confirmed to be part of any specific dream. However, as shown with Doremy's Last Word, she can easily create a dream with several stars in the sky. Moreover, in LoLK it was implied that the area of Stage 3 was potentially considered an individual dream to Doremy. As stated several times, Doremy rules over the entire Dream World by herself (Which means billions of dreams), and she has shown the ability to create several dreams by herself. Considering that a single dream can be 4-A sized, this would place her at "At least Multi-Solar System level".

(While it is true that the stars in said dreams aren't very realistic looking, it likely to just to contrast with the real world. Indeed the dream world has shown to have more realistic stars on several occasion, including LoLK's depiction and Doremy's portals. And it isn't the first time that a dream was portrayed as looking like a drawing in Touhou)

This would scale to most of the Lunarian Pantheon. Sagume is seen as a superior to Doremy, ordering her around and all. And most stronger Lunar inhabitants would scale to her. This includes Junko, Watatsuki no Yorihime, Watatsuki no Toyohime, Houyi, Chang'e and likely Mizue no Uranoshimako. Naturally, anyone who is currently 4-A would be upgraded to "At least 4-A".

Additionally, Doremy has potentially access to any characters in the entire franchise via their Dream World selves. This could be considered a form of Summoning.

Secondly: The abilities of Joon and Shion. Other than having gods abilities as always, they both have some degree of control over Fortune. In Touhou, Fortune is pretty much luck. This is to the point where someone with 0 fortune cannot win a fight. While Shion can simply inflict misfortune, Joon seems to steal fortune instead. However, she can't accumulate it. So both should get Probability Manipulation. They are also both able to possess people in addition to this. So Possession. Shion can also access the Dream World.

Also something related to this. In Curiosities of Lotus Asia, we learn that in order to perform magic, one needs several elements. The most important of which is Fortune. Indeed no matter how strong, skilled or whatever you are, you cannot perform magic when you have no fortune. So Joon, Shion and any Touhou character who can manipulate misfortune should get Limited Power Nullification.

Finally, a few more minor things:

-Tenshi should get some resistance to Probability Manipulation. Her fortune is so great that it cannot be reduced, and she is unaffected by Shion's probability manipulation. Should also apply to most Lunarians due to "scaling" from Celestials.

-Yukari managed to manipulate the border between "Slave" and "Master" regarding Possession. This would give her the potential to undo possession. Not any specific abilities, but just something to note.

-Ichirin Kumoi is considered a rival to Mononobe no Futo, much like Byakuren is one to Miko. I think that upgrading her to "Likely 5-A" would be fine.

-Sumireko can create a doppelganger of herself in combat. This is unrelated to her Astral Projection.

-Reisen probably has minor Poison Manipulation, as she can weaponize Eirin's drugs mid-combat.

 

[Fllflourine]

Seems fine to me, talked this whole thing out with Saikou over PMs and all

 

[Promestein]

Seems good to me. I'd be happy to help with implementing these.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Though I reserve myself the rights to Doremy. Because I like Doremy now.

 

[Fllflourine]

Though I reserve myself the rights to Doremy. Because I like Doremy now.

#YourWaifu

 

[Theglassman12]

This looks ok to me, though I think that the existence erasure should be changed to dream manipulation since she's just erasing the dream, and not the person.

 

[Promestein]

Shion's mine.

I'll still edit Doremy's page. Just after you. Obsessively.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Glass Well the thing is that dreams are physical, which amounts to Doremy being able to erase stuff either way.

@Prom Don't worry, I'll try and put the categories in alphabetical order. Try.

 

[Promestein]

Thank you, Saikou, at least someone has a heart

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok, we just need to add that little detail when the edits go through.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Anything else you guys could find before you add these in? Would be nice to finish in one go. Seems legit all of it though.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Nothing that's related to AoCF, no. At least from what I saw.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

stop wanking here.. I disagree with everything... I wasn't convinced at all.. disgraceful!

JK....

Looks Good to Me.

 

[Andykhang]

@Glass Well the thing is that dreams are physical, which amounts to Doremy being able to erase stuff either way.

@Prom Don't worry, I'll try and put the categories in alphabetical order. Try.

that still fall into the cagetory of dream manip though, even if it's physical. If she could also delete in the real world, then we could call it such

Also, since the Possession incident also involve the dream self being replace and eject, you could said she also flipped the dream/reality somewhat

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Arguably, half of her powerset is but Dream Manipulation. I'd rather keep all possible applications of her powers.

 

[LuckyEmile]

To me, all the Doremy abilities seem in order (ouch, more portal guillotine users), I remember seeing most of these from the trailer too! The Lost Word seems pretty fine for an upgrade, so... 4-A Doremy, Lunarians and Junko seems fine! And summoning is good too!

I read around Shion and Joon because spoilers, so sorry I can't have a say on that. Therefore I can't help on Tenshi, but... could you maybe explain quickly for me on the Celestial-Lunarian ability "scaling"? I probably just need a reminder!

Yukari seems fine, not sure if it counts towards anything though. Ichirin seems okay to scale to Futo since rivals. And Reisen's poison manipulation seems fine.

However, not sure why creating a doppelgänger counts as Astral Manipulation?

All in all, good thread.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Lunarians are basically better Celestials, and Tenshi's immunity seems to imply that people on her level have too much luck/fortune to be drained of it. So, all Celestials and Lunarians would have the same resistance.

It doesn't though. That's why I'm saying it's more Duplication than Astral Projection, as it's unrelated to her already-existing Astral Projection.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ooh. More people to put against Kirby ovo

I disagree. Simply because I agree, but I can't come up with a BS reason to agree on rather than agreeing with Saik's legit points. And saying Saik is right is admitting defeat ovo.

(Yes, Saik is 100% right. Are you happy, Saikovo?)

 

[LuckyEmile]

@Saikou; hmm, I suppose the point of Lunarians and Celestials makes sense. And whoops, misread for the latter~

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yay, Cal agrees~

Mostly due to Yukari gaining a miniature upgrade

 

[Fllflourine]

Do we need more agreement or is this enough to make the changes?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Idk. Seems fine to me.

 

[Fllflourine]

Welp, if no one objects, I suppose the changes can be made starting now, especially since 3 people knowledgable on Touhou agree