Another Re Zero Revision Thread

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Otto

Otto Suwe should be 8-B with Fire Stones, he harmed Garfiel Tinsel with them:

Grimacing at the crackling heat on his skin, Garfiel violently kicks a pile of nearby leaves.Garfiel: "******' thanks for th'gift, huh."Garfiel's mutter is one of irritation, but also one of honest praise.Contempt will be your undoing, the man had declared. And his statement was irrefutable fact.Garfiel had unmistakably, thinking Otto had not a speck of combat ability, underestimated him.Garfiel: "Fire spellstone... what's he plottin', using one that ain't threatenin'?"A momentary, sight-obstructing curtain of fire.For a single instant it had singed his petrified body before disappearing. Garfiel reflects on the thing, annoyed. It was a lark of an attack. It did sting his skin slightly—but it amounted to nothing more than sunburn, far removed from any prospects of damage.But there is one thing he can state clearly. Garfiel: "'F that hit'd been a deadlier one, not even my amazin' self wouldda gotten out unscathed..."His opponent had forced him to circumvent something which should have been fatal.What to call that except being shown mercy? An opponent who he had held back on, and failed to knock unconscious, had turned around and slugged him.And with that, Garfiel is overwhelmingly wretched, foolish.
	~ Arc 4, Chapter 104​

It didn't do much damage but it did harm Garfiel and he said Otto held back with it. Also Otto used the stones to harm Ley Batenkaitos in Arc 5, this was with both a water and fire stone though:

The red and yellow light, and the blue and white light proliferated, and Batenkaitos' body was enveloped in the light and a shockwave was released. Ley: "Òâ╝Òâ╝~hk!!" Receiving the light from a close distance, Otto also was subjected to harm. Though Gaston, who was acting as a wall, shielded the majority of it, its impact could still be felt upon Otto's skin. His skin scorched to the point of freezing, and chilled to the point of burning. Once the shockwave came to a halt, the second hypocentre was a truly terrible sight to witness. The cobblestone had been torn off, the soil underneath was wide open, and scorched fragments of stone had been scattered across. Ley: "A~h, that's so cruel. Our only good dress got spoilt." And, once again, Batenkaitos had placed himself at a point away from the hypocentre. However, it seems this time, at least, he was not undamaged. The youth's long hair had suffered the attack heaped upon themselves as an aftermath of the blast, and he had a somewhat sullen voice.
	~ Arc 5, Chapter 68​

Otto should have Fire Manipulation and Ice Manipulation due to the stones.

Gasto
Gaston (Re: Zero) should have 8-B durability with Flow Method since he tanked Otto's fire magic stone at close range:

Gaston: "Gha~a~a~! Hot! Hot! Hot hot! I'll die!" Otto: "Even if you may be able to take explosions, I guess you can't stop your body from warming or cooling." Felt sighed, seeing the form of her attendant agonizing in high fever. Though he had bathed in the might of the fire magic stone from close proximity, Gaston's life did not appear to be in a serious condition.
	~ Arc 5, Chapter 68​

Felt
Should have Supersonic+ speed for being as fast as Ley:

Felt: "Don't think you can win in a race, against me." Against Batenkaitos, who was racing like wind, only Felt was able to catch up comfortably. The moment she had lightly kicked the cobblestone and leapt ahead, she showed mobility, as if she was being carried by the wind at once. Surprised by at least that movement, Batenkaitos' first slash swept through the air.
	~ Arc 5, Chapter 68​

Metia
AP

The Metia is weapon stated to be able to able to pester the Dragon and made it halfway cry:

Felt: "Meteor?" Beatrice: "Mother…… A revered magician a long time ago, used it to pester the Dragon, in fact. It's whereabouts were supposed to be unknown, but this is fate, I suppose." Felt found Beatrice's explanation, who had corrected a crucial part of it, debatable. But from Otto's point of view, stating that the 『Mother』 Beatrice had mentioned and corrected later on, was a 『Witch』 who had disappeared from legends would make for a truly outrageous claim. He still held his own doubts he wanted to ask about, but if the 『Witch』 had truly used it to pester the Dragon, the reliability of its potential was high. Otto: "I had heard of its convolution in usage, but what can we expect in terms of its strength?" Beatrice: "It is a staff which boasts having an anecdote of having made the Dragon halfway cry, in fact. It's guaranteed, I suppose."
	~ Arc 5, Chapter 69​

Now the lore has stated that the Dragon, Sage and Sword Saint are responsible for sealing Satella (Re:Zero), we also know Reid Astrea was able to slash Satella, and we also know Reinhard van Astrea needs to draw Reid to fight the The Dragon, so it should be comparable to Reid.

With that i think Felt with the Metia should be High 6-A, at the very least it warrants a possibly rating.

Speed

Think it's speed should be downgrade it was said to be inescapable even for Reinhard but we know it's a homing attack, plus Ley to an extent could dodge it, though ultimately he got hit.

Think it's speed should be Supersonic+.

Kurgan and Thearesia
Both are weaker in arc 5 than when they were alive, they should have 2 keys "Alive" and "Revived". Their alive keys are 8-B and Hypersonic+, cause Thearesia>Young Wilhelm>Old Wilhelm, Kurgan fought Power of Love Wilhelm who is>Thearesia.

Their revived keys are 8-B and Supersonic+ cause Kurgan fought Garfiel and Thearesia fought Old Wilhelm.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

I agree with everything except 8-B Gaston, or if he does it should only be a possibly 8-B and we should acknowledge that Beatrice said Ley was most likely holding back.

Another thing to add, would it be reasonable to upgrade the AP of Prime Wilhelm, Thearesia, and Kurgan to at least 8-B?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I never even mentioned anything about scaling Gaston to Ley's attacks, i am scaling his durability to 8-B via tanking magic stones at point blank which previously harmed Garfiel and harmed Ley.

Ley uses daggers and we usually treat slicing weapons as ignoring durability to an extent, well not sure if i worded that correctly, point is it's easier to tank blunt force than being sliced.

Don't think they should be At least, that would imply that are far into 8-B, Transformed Garfiel should lose that, the characters scale above 15 tons, 8-B goes from 11-100 Tons.

 

[Jobbo]

This would take Sekhmet to High 6-A as well since she's superior to the dragon.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That would mess up the scaling, cause Reinhard>Sehkmet which would put Base Reinhard on the same level as with Reid.

However when talking about Reinhard the author could be referring to either Base or with Reid, since he doesn't specify which, he stated Reinhard can easily destroy the world, obviously Base Reinhard isn't on that level so he means Reid, and if Sehkmet>Dragon, and Dragon requires Reid, Sehkmet would require Reid, so obviously when he says Reinhard>Sehkmet he means Reinhard with Reid.

I mean Sehkmet is the strongest witch excluding Satella so don't think anything would be wrong with putting her that high.

 

[Jobbo]

Come to think of it, doesn't Fortuna have a feat of covering up the entire sky with a continent of ice? It happens during Emilia's flashback in Arc 4. Seems like it should yield quite impressive results.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Continent of ice is probably hyperbole, or an outlier, but don't think it's an actual ice continent, probably would yield good results though if we knew it's size.

Read arc 4 in years, so i don't remember everything, since season 2 is coming we will get visuals of stuff like that and other stuff like Puck's world freezing, Garfield's earth shattering etc.

So i would save any calcs for then.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

I never even mentioned anything about scaling Gaston to Ley's attacks, i am scaling his durability to 8-B via tanking magic stones at point blank which previously harmed Garfiel and harmed Ley.

My bad, since most of this was already briefly talked about in the discussion thread I just skimmed over everything other than Otto. If it comes from Otto I guess I'm cool with it.

If Sehkmet is getting upgraded to High 6-A, then we should either change Base Reinhard's justification to scale from Puck or downgrade the non-Puck 7-Bs to Low 7-B.

I'm curious what's the exact statement that Reinhard could destroy the world? Unless it's a specific context I don't think it's really enough to justify High 6-A stats. Let alone having an at least and likely higher added on to it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Base Reinhard causally walked up to Puck and slammed him into the ground, Reid is overkill, so yea it should change to being superior to Puck.

We already know Reinhard scales to Satella and she destroyed half the world, the statements of easily destroying the world just add to that, the likely higher stuff is just unnecessary though, it's just High 6-A.

Q: Can Reinhard destroy the world? A: He can.
	~ Reinhard's Birthday 2018, Q&A​

Q: Can Reinhard destroy the world by himself? A: He can destroy it. Fairly easily.
	~ Reinhard's Birthday 2018, Q&A​

There is also him re-birthing the world or whatever with one swing of Reid after Puck froze it, although i am not sure Puck actually froze the entire world since multiple people stronger than him should have ended him before he got that far, he could have just been sneaky by hiding or something i guess, we need visuals to confirm, however if you take it at face value, Puck after an unknown time frame froze the world, Reinhard with Reid easily reverses that with 1 swing.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

I don't think a timeframe exists for Satella, I always interpereted it as her managing to destroy half the world over time before she was stopped.

Obviously Reinhard could destroy the world over time, there's literally no one who could stop him.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well as i said the rebirthing the world feat lines up perfectly with what we know, i am just not 100% on it since we know ppl exist who should have killed Puck before he got that far.

If you just ignore that, Reinhard with Reid is High 6-A due to that feat:

Hearing it through, Reinhardt swings up his sword, and with one flash of swordcery—following the edge of the glinting sword out bursts an incredible wave of energy.It cleaves through the sky, drills through the air, shatters the ground, roils the ambient mana, rending everything which was in the blade's path in two—the light settles, and the sight before Subaru's consciousness slips.Subaru: <—>That world, covered in its frigid chill—after the torrential sword-slash settles, it rebirths.The slippage in the world is rectified, the once-roiled mana forms a ring as it recirculates through the world, the once-shattered earth blooms with flowers, the once-pierced air abounds with gaiety, and down from the once-cleaved sky there shines sunlight. Simultaneously bringing the end and rebirth of the world, the Sword Saint's strike.The colossal beast stricken with the attack remains as not even a trace, completely extinguished from the universe.Assuredly present until just a few seconds ago, the behemoth is gone, and no hint of the destruction it caused remains.
	~ Arc 4, Chapter 71​

Besides this we haven't seen Reinhard with Reid do anything, he apparently draws Reid vs Celius and one shots but it's untranslated, and Satella hasn't done anything since she is still sealed, though she can still do things despite that.

I am not really particular about their High 6-A rating, it will be a long time before we see Reinhard and Satella going all out.

If you wanna downgrade them, they would be something like Small Country level since even low-balling Puck froze like a hundred kilometers or something like that and Reinhard reversed that which requires that amount of energy there was a calc for that somewhere.

I wouldn't really touch Reinhard and Satella though, they might just be upgraded again once season 2 is out, would be pretty pointless, you're more than welcome to do that if you want though assuming people agree.

 

[Jobbo]

By the way, since it takes 12 days from Pristella to the mansion and then 20 days to the sand dunes, that would mean Lugunica takes up more than 80% of the world's width under the current calc.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That's what stated in the story, that it takes 12 days to Pristella and 20 to sand dunes.

Can we just do this whole world calc/Reinhard discussion or whatever in another thread?

That's really not what i intended in the op.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

That would be like 4 revisions in one month... I'm game

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ok so back on topic with this thread, i forgot to post Priscilla should gain Damage Transferal in the op.

Priscilla: "Cease the racket, the true damage is yet to come." Replying thus to my wail, with a resounding step Priscilla-sama landed. However, immediately following that Priscilla-sama's necklace began to change. It had originally been a necklace with three jewels of green, but one of the jewels had disintegrated into ash. Almost as if taking Priscilla-sama's stead in the attack from just before. Priscilla: "The repayment of mine necklace, has a rather high cost you know." Sirius: "So that's how it is. Is it that wounds you suffer transfer onto what is valuable to you. That is truly a manner befitting of [Pride]… nono, couldn't be couldn't possibly be."
	~ Arc 5, Chapter 67​

 

[Jobbo]

By the way, Ram should be way higher in base. In Volume 8 Wilhelm, Ricardo and Julius have to team up to stop her.

She easily dodged Wilhelm and was able to blow him away. She then took a direct surprise attack from Ricardo which was stated to be strong enough to break the White Whale's hide and hardly took any damage by turning her body. She was also flawlessly dodging Wilhelm and Ricardo's combined assault while weaving magic until Julius stopped her with his surprise attack.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

I'm pretty sure that was her oni form, it's hard to tell visually since she doesn't have a horn

 

[Jobbo]

That form strains her heavily, though. She was just talking casually and was smiling in the illustration after the fight, no signs of exertion.

 

[Jobbo]

While we're at it, Garfiel was stated to be at 80-90% of his strength while facing Elsa so going with 85% he'd be about 18% stronger than her. Tappei also stated in a Q&A that Oni mode Ram can take him on with half her strength so she should be 2.36x as strong as Elsa in that form, and we don't even know how much of a boost beast form gives.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It's already on his profile that Garfiel is stronger than Elsa, and those sort of increases don't really change much, they aren't gonna get an At least rating or anything.

Ram being 8-B in Base seems outliery to me.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

While we're at it, Garfiel was stated to be at 80-90% of his strength while facing Elsa so going with 85% he'd be about 18% stronger than her. Tappei also stated in a Q&A that Oni mode Ram can take him on with half her strength so she should be 2.36x as strong as Elsa in that form, and we don't even know how much of a boost beast form gives.

That really doesn't change anything, that wouldn't even be enough to push Oni Ram into 8-B+

 

[Jobbo]

It changes a lot. The rating itself may not change but it takes her from 16 tons to nearly 40 tons.

Anyway, if Tappei didn't intend for her to be that strong he'd have just removed that scene like he did an entire loop that same volume. The fact that it made it into the LN means he intends for her to be at that level.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

It changes a lot. The rating itself may not change but it takes her from 16 tons to nearly 40 tons.

She was already well over Elsa as is by sheer virtue of being stronger than transformed Garf, at best this reaffirms what we already have.

 

[Jobbo]

There's no number for being well over someone, though. It's good to have a number. If she were to be used in a vs thread she probably wouldn't even be considered stronger than a 20 ton character without the multiplier.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

bump

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Bump