Another Pre-SSSAF Rakudai CRT

[Hl3_or_bust]

This is just a bunch of small stuff that I've noticed since I recently finished this section.

Firstly, Ikki does not have Trackless Step pre-SSSAF. He literally just says that he can "probably do it", which is somehow enough to say that he 100% definitely has it. Stella also having it is not an argument, nor is he using it "one fight later" as I've heard.

There is also nothing about him having control over his own mind from what I remember.

His "immense will" is just fear hax.

There's actually an upgrade from this too. He uses Saigeki during this part, which is the "focus every vector in the same direction" attack.

His page also a lot of trimming down imho, but that's less an accuracy thing and more just looks.

Next, Stella never messes with light around herself to become invisible as far as I remember and she straight up never demonstrates Accelerated Development. Also, why does she has Social Influencing? She does nothing like this.


This is everything I could remember as an issue

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Some scans to prove your points would be nice.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

That doesn't really work for a lot of this since it's "this doesn't exist" or "this never happened" but i'll try

 

[Sir_Ovens]

You could get Earl to give you the evidence of the things you think should go. At least I'm assuming Earl knows since he's the verse expert.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Well, that's kinda what I'm waiting on

Anyways, I've added the scan for Saigeki and him saying he could probably do TS

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so let's go over this:

"Kurogane. Someone like you has already seen through how Trackless Step works, right?"

To that inquiry, he nodded.

"Somewhat. If you tell me to do the same thing, I could probably do it."

He then procedes to completely explaining how trackless step works (has understood it), and this is all coming from a dude who understands the principle of any move or style he has copied (seen).

Then Stella Vermillion is shown using the same style (having only seen it twice as opposed to Ikki's 3 times) and she's far less skilled.

So you're saying all of these aren't enough to give him the ability. Besides as Ikki said, he's fairly sure he could pull it off.


His control over his mind is shifting his attention to the unconsciousness, which he states during Touka vs Shizuku that he and Stella could do (to counter TS), he shows the exact application during SSSAF but we know he could pull it off.


About the fear hax, sure that's a thing, but it is from his willpower. His will was so great it scared the entire stadium.


Saigeki i was never sure what kind of power it was, so i just slapped it off as skill. Cus Vector Manipulation might be misleading.


About Stella, she only does it during SSSAF. Have i put that in the Selection Battles Arc in the profiles? If yes, than that is indeed my mistake i will fix it.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Just knowing how something works doesn't mean he can physically do it. As I've already explained to you, Ikki has absolutely no reason to scale to Stella without further evidence which, as far as I am aware, doesn't exist. At absolute best, it would be a possibly, but definitely not an absolute.

That's not self-mind manip at all.

Having high willpower isn't willpower manip.

It's listed as body control iirc.

O h. If that's the case then yeah there's no reason you can't just go ahead and fix it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Mori literally has that full mind control thing but that doesn't give him mind manip. It's literally just a state of being. It doesn't warrant an ability.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Just from ikki's words it's "probably" which is almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell. Without even including the rest of the evidence i mentioned. It even says Ikki nodded to Kurono's question.

It's a form of body control, it's just my way of being specific.

It is not, but i think i've seen people link that. But either way, not a big deal removing the link.

Can't even remember what i've listed it as. But eh, not a big deal.

Sure fixed it. About Accelerated Development, it's a natural ability, not something you gain. Due to possesing a ton of talent she naturally grows much faster than anyone else.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Most people don't really mean "most likely" when they say "probably", so I doubt the author meant that. Yeah, he nodded and then did the verbal equivalent of shrugging. Kinda contradictory.

Meh.

I think I've seen that too, although yeah.

Actually, it's listed as "self-bio manip" which is literally just drastically overstated body control.

That's fair.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

We get that Ikki has a high chance of pulling it of. The thing is that we never see him pulling it off. In a combat scenario, we can't just assume that he would do something he has never canonically done before at that point of time. But considering this is Ikki we're talking about, I'm willing to compromise and put a possibly on the ability, since the guy can basically replicate whatever he sees.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Probably does indeed mean "almost certain" though. You might be confusing it with "possibly". Possibly is usually negative (not very likely), probably is very positive. And saying "i am almost certain i can pull it off" doesn't really contradict the nod.

So should i remove the link then or just leave it? Cus i mean i doubt anyone will think its actual willpower manip when it says "immense willpower".

Meh, same thing. Can be fixed.

@Oven

I do not see the problem if someone like ikki says "i can probably pull it off". This is ikki who replicates everything he sees, and he's almost certain he can pull off that move. There really is no reason to have it as "possibly". When as i said, even less skilled people could pull it off. If your average hood basker player can pull of a certain shot, then some NBA states "yeah i could probably pull it off too". There is not much room for doubt.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yes, but within the context of narrative, if we don't see it, it might as well never have happened. That's why Yhwach's Sternritter abilities are not something he absolutely has and is a stipulation we make.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Pretty sure we would give them for sure if Yhwach had stated "Yeah i probably have them", then there are people weaker than him who have them too and later on he shows them.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Probably does mean that according to the dictionary, but when people say that they often don't mean exactly what is written in the dictionary, as is the case with many words.

Probably just remove the whole thing, since willpower alone is more a stamina thing.

That comparision doesn't work. There's not many ways for basketball to be played, in contrast to the functionally infinite ways that someone can swing a sword. The ludicrous amount of contradicting fencing schools in medieval Europe show this and varied from mathematics and geometry-based stances and movements to more fluid and natural ones. Simply put, there's a lot of different ways to go about using a sword.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That's super specific to just Rakudai and a huge double standard.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

We do not say "what if he doesn't mean that and means a totally different thing from the commonly used and correct definition?". Who even uses "probably" for negative chances?

Nah, there are many profiles who have willpower listed as a legit thing. Iirc Senshinkan characters had that.

This isn't really about using a sword, it's about a single technique called Trackless Step.

@Oven

How is that a double standard?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Btw what i can agree with is "Likely Trackless Step". Since as i said, possibly is negative chance (below 50%), where as likely is closer to probably.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Again, most people don't say probably when they mean almost definitely. I'd really like for you to find me an example of that.

Senshinkan is the opposite of a good example for that, since their willpower is the reason for every other power they have.

That literally just further proves my point.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I don't know any examples of "probably" being the same as "possibly" in meaning.

Ok but like "immense willpower" is something they have in their P&A was my point. So like "immense willpower" if it gives abilities can be put there. In this case it gives fear hax.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

At best, say possibly/likely Trackless Step, at worst, remove it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Btw what i can agree with is "Likely Trackless Step". Since as i said, possibly is negative chance (below 50%), where as likely is closer to probably.

^^

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I'll concede to likely. The author most likely intended for Ikki to have it, but his lack of actually doing so is an issue.

Well, for one Senshinkan people have willpower that lets them overcome Alaya, a 2-A structure, so that's very different from this.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok, never said Ikki has it to Seinshinkan level. Im saying "immense willpower" is something you can put in the P&A section.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, "likely Trackless Step" is reasonable, because he perfectly understands the technique and says he could probably pull it off, but, he didn't do it on that arc. Next arc would be where Trackless Step is used by him.

Also, Alaya wasn't accepted as 2-A, just 2-B last time I checked.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

ALRF mentions a lot that he has 2-A scans from Bansenjin, but he's not planning on making a CRT anytime soon.

 

[Antvasima]

Have you reached some sort of conclusion here?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah, just need to add a likely to Trackless Step and fix some minor things. This can be closed, I'll apply the changes as soon as the other thread concludes as well

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.