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Android 21

I got confused for a second on the topic...

Can we stick to one and after concluding, go to another topic?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
This. Her body is modeled after that on an adult woman, and she has the mentality of one. Troll fails.
Click to expand...

So who troll who? The game? the designers? the character? OVO
 
She has said "back when I was a human" and word like that many times, so she's likely just saying she's been an Android for 10 years rather than that being her true age. The "technically" also implies this as well. If I recall, I did hear someone saying she was 60 in total, but I never found their source, so...

But when looking at the other topics, this seems a little trivial. But, saying she's been an Android for 10 years on her profile doesn't seem harmful.
 
To be honest, with what we are dealing with currently, that doesn't matter too much. She's been an Android for less than 10 years, but this isn't going to affect stuff for Vs debates like the other topics.

But to answer your question, no. This takes place post Revival "F", which is a while after Z, which has a seven year time gap after Cell Games, and a three year time gap before Android arrival, so... probably around the Android Arc time(?), which makes sense considering she's basically made to be superior to Cell, and 21 comes after 20, which is Gero in a robotic body.
 
I mean, was EVERYONE including Gohan nerfed to 4-B? Because I don't recall Piccolo or Gohan stating their power was weakened, which would imply Gohan is at least Pre Tournament of Power SS2 Goku level at Max power, considering he hasn't finished his training with Piccolo. If this takes place after BoG, RoF, and the Goku Black arc, Goku, Frieza, and Vegeta should still be Universal, if not Multi-Galaxy+ or something? I don't think that the plot makes it clear that they were nerfed to Buu saga levels specifically, that's just an assumption. All we know for sure is that Goku can't use Blue in the story. To say he can't use SS3 except for short bursts without any direct statements is also an assumption. Goku has gone in and out of SS3 before in videogames just to use a powerful attack. I really don't think it's a good idea to assume he can't Sustain SS3 if he wanted to based JUST on him being restricted to some unknown degree. Just because he's restricted, and uses SS3 in short bursts doesn't mean that he is restricted to using SS3 in short bursts specifically. There's plenty of Meta reasons why the game developers wouldn't give Goku all these forms and shit, and there's only a THEORY suggesting Goku is restricted to Buu Saga levels specifically and not anything else.

So, I think that, to be safe, we should do "At least Solar System, possibly Universal" for 21's Majin form. Seeing as we don't know how much Goku is debuffed for unless Matt can provide scans specifically demonstrating that Goku and others are at Buu Saga levels (and a statement showing that Goku can't use SS3 for anything more in short bursts). I can see where you're getting that interpretation, but it's not exactly hard fact.
 
We don't exactly know to what level they were reduced to, and them getting stronger via increasing their Link Ratio (or Cell man- yeah, you get the idea by now) also kind of complicated thins further. Clues is we know they aren't all reduced to a constant, as there are several scenes implying different levels of power between them, they don't appear to ever regain full strength (as Cell and Freeza state they have returned to their normal level of power after the defeat of #21 in the Villain Campaign, and Gokü agrees there should now be a difference), and that they shouldn't be able to reach even half of (a possibly weakened) True #21's Power by around half way through the campaign.

Due to it being hard to pin-point... this is a bit of a struggle.

EDIT: as for is everyone effected? Well, Evil Persona #21 did state the Wave Machine should affect all Earth warriors, although at the same time, Yamcha was said to be unaffected because he was too weak, and Beerus and Whis are unaffected because manmade technology isn't really effective on gods (need proof? See earlier), but they never fight in-campaign, so I guess those unaffected make little difference.
 
Yeah, but, again, it's not consistent, plus the Link thing. That's why we can't rule 3-A out as a possibility, if not high end 3-B or something...? The point is, At least Solar System, possibly 3-A/3-B or something to that effect is probably the best course of action, since it's not clear what's happening.
 
But it is consistent and it's pretty clear what's happening, just not how much each individual has been weakened. The Link Ratio isn't the best proof for them being 3-A though (not that I'm against 3-A, we did disregard this very topic at first), especially when you consider the second hint I mentioned, and the fact that Cell was able to overtake them all by a noticeable margin when he manipulated a player's soul to his whim.
 
It's not that it's not consistent that they're weaker, just not how much ANYONE was weakened, like you said. It's not so much proof of them being 3-A, so much as the Link Mechanic makes it seem possible that they got closer to the lowest levels of 3-A if anything. Possible is all we need for a "possibly"
 
7 people have agreed to 4-B Labcoat #21 (8 if you include me), and I have sorted out the hax for which is Labcoat and which is True form, and all the other stats basically scale to SP Cell. I personally feel "4-B" instead of "At least 4-B", since it goes pretty far in with Dragon Ball and we only know she's superior (although to a high extent) to one of the lowest in the tier.

Do we now have enough support to add the key (which we kinda need, I guess)? If so, I'll be happy to do so.
 
We've agreed that her labcoat form gets 4-B, while her other one stays at 3-A due to fighting Goku when all of her waves were nullified and still winning.
 
A 4-B key seems harmless, but only if a video or other proof to show why she is a that tier in the profile.
 
I mean, there is proof right in this very thread.

EDIT: Would you prefer the transcript written in isolation, or an image in the style of the image in this comment? I ask because videoes can often get deleted, whilst we can easily maintain stuff on our wiki, and I am not going to delete the transcript.
MP5 Bowser dialogue
 
If we can find the quote stating that Labcoat #21 > Super Perfect Cell then we could use that as evidence.
 
Super Saiyan God Julian said:
If we can find the quote stating that Labcoat #21 > Super Perfect Cell then we could use that as evidence.
Click to expand...
Did you read the beginning of the thread? It's riiiiight there.
 
More so that we can find the actual video in which all of [[1]] this was stated since I don't think a document would be acceptable to add.
 
Hence why I said about the second method, which would be in the style of the picture I just showed as an example
 
Oooohhhhhh righttttt....

Then yeah I prefer that method, since it would be from the game itself, solidifying 4-B Labcoat #21.
 
21 vs Cell
I believe this should suffice. They go on to show Labcoat #21 directly after, which I guess would prove it is that form of her they are talking about, but because they were no longer talking about her being above Cell anymore, I thought there is likely no real need.
 
Hmm, just so people don't have to keep bringing up the question I, and later Matthew, do about whether her true form should really be 3-A, I also made this image from the point I found earlier.

21 vs Goku 3-A
 
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