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Amelia Clementine CRT

Rafi_BZ

Rafi_BZ

62
50
 
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1060209723091202159.gif

Wenk.
 
I know, but the problem here is that Amelia is in a state where she is unbound by the world system.

Because she herself can still survive and exist, even though the world stops and everything in it becomes empty.
 
BlueZone said:
I know, but the problem here is that Amelia is in a state where she is unbound by the world system.

Because she herself can still survive and exist, even though the world stops and everything in it becomes empty.
Click to expand...
It would just be Resistance to Plot Manipulation and Fate Manipulation, rather than the things you mentioned earlier.This is essentially because the world is a story, and all the events that occur in the world reflect the will of the Father (author), who writes them on a page. And Anelia herself isnt bound by the story. This allows her to exist even if the world (story) has been destroyed by him.

Also, she is not influenced by anything in the world because the world itself has been destroyed, leaving only her in the Library.
 
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Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl said:
It would just be Resistance to Plot Manipulation and Fate Manipulation, rather than the things you mentioned earlier.This is essentially because the world is a story, and all the events that occur in the world reflect the will of the Father (author), who writes them on a page. And Anelia herself isnt bound by the story. This allows her to exist even if the world (story) has been destroyed by him.

Also, she is not influenced by anything in the world because the world itself has been destroyed, leaving only her in the Library.
Click to expand...
Isn't that so ridiculous? Generally, the story there is of course a conventional reality that includes conventional systems. One of them is a causality system, because in general reality has a causality unique to having a series of events in it.

This story that Father created should also cover space-time, considering that it is a story that contains the conventional world. And this should meet the requirements of a type 2 BDE (because she transcends story or world it makes her unaffected by world reduction), and has a high probability of being hde. Someone who is claimed to be superior to reality and reaches another realm, should she have additional coordinate axes.
 
Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl said:
Also, she is not influenced by anything in the world because the world itself has been destroyed, leaving only her in the Library.
Click to expand...
She existed in the library would be even more supportive, if she became a transcendental being. Generally, the library itself is a plane that exists as the higher plane. Because it is a place that includes all of the works made by Father, which are uncountable infinite numbers.

There is already an explanation in volume 0 and the last volume or chapters.
 
I just straight up don't want to work on anything like this. What I will do for this is this:

@DemiiPowa You made the cosmology thread, your problem now, miss.
 
BlueZone said:
This story that Father created should also cover space-time, considering that it is a story that contains the conventional world. And this should meet the requirements of a type 2 BDE (because she transcends story or world it makes her unaffected by world reduction), and has a high probability of being hde. Someone who is claimed to be superior to reality and reaches another realm, should she have additional coordinate axes.
Click to expand...
Well sorry for that.... requirement for higher dimensional nowdays is pretty much not that simple.

You still need 2 things
  1. Higher time-space structure.
  2. Reality-Fiction gap.
your argument is pretty much headcannon to something that isn't Always related, Reaching higher planes can still be in the same 1 dimensional space-time structure. Higher dimensional must require the 2 criteria above, so yeah... Disagree

anyway check Higher dimensional existence page for a better explanation.
 
AkumaNoHissatsu said:
Well sorry for that.... requirement for higher dimensional nowdays is pretty much not that simple.

You still need 2 things
  1. Higher time-space structure.
  2. Reality-Fiction gap.
your argument is pretty much headcannon to something that isn't Always related, Reaching higher planes can still be in the same 1 dimensional space-time structure. Higher dimensional must require the 2 criteria above, so yeah... Disagree

anyway check Higher dimensional existence page for a better explanation.
Click to expand...
Sorry in advance, you can see my debate with Chlammy. There we had a discussion about the Library, where Amelia and Father are now. Generally it is a place that contains many books, where each book has an infinite page which is the universe or the world, no one can go to the Library besides the Father and Amelia at this time (because only those two beings have just become transcendental). Maybe you can check here.
 
BlueZone said:
Isn't that so ridiculous? Generally, the story there is of course a conventional reality that includes conventional systems. One of them is a causality system, because in general reality has a causality unique to having a series of events in it.

This story that Father created should also cover space-time, considering that it is a story that contains the conventional world. And this should meet the requirements of a type 2 BDE (because she transcends story or world it makes her unaffected by world reduction), and has a high probability of being hde. Someone who is claimed to be superior to reality and reaches another realm, should she have additional coordinate axes.
Click to expand...
Firstly, your statement is essentially speculative. You're making too many assumptions without further additions from the feats demonstrated.

Your proposal involves Acausality type 5 here, which is quite stringent on this wiki. So, relying solely on assumptions without further extrapolation unfortunately isn't adequately sufficient for that purpose.

Being beyond the world (space, time, or laws), that encompassing even cause-and-effect systems wouldn't automatically grant you Acausality type 5 though.

Acausality type 5 is a state entirely detached from causality, at every level, completely free from all possible cause-and-effect relationships. This requires a character to be completely unbound by the causality system because its nature lacks connection to all aspects, rather than being independent from conventional reality, which would only imply being in a different causal system.

Hence, this is a crucial distinction between Acausality type 4 and 5. Acausality type 4 only represents independence from the regular or conventional causality system, yet it still resides within an unconventional or irregular causality system. Therefore, changes in the regular causality system no longer affect it.

On the other hand, Acausality type 5 is straightforward, it beyond causality and its systems, existing outside the realm of causality, both regular and irregular, and is entirely non-interactable.

Indeed, it's true that Amelia is entirely outside conventional reality (her world); she resides in the Author's realm. But is she entirely unbound by the causality system? No, she can still be interacted with by the Father—she still exists within the causality system in a higher reality, within the Father's realm.

Furthermore, although she's beyond conventional reality, giving Acausality type 4 to her is a bit excessive. This is because she's only in an irregular state relative to the regular causality system due to the author's realm, which is not technically irregular due to her fundamental existence.

Secondly, much like the first point, you're assuming too much. There's no indication that Amelia is lacking spatial-temporal features, even in state that she superior compared to them. Amelia lacks any explanation about herself lacking spatial-temporal features conceptually. Therefore, the premise that she transcends a world containing spacetime doesn't automatically grant her BDE type 2.

Thirdly, not at all. Existing in a higher realm doesn't provide HDE. Higher Dimensional Existence is essentially bestowed upon characters as having higher dimensions defined mathhematically, whether that's 4D, 5D, or higher. It doesn't come from a Higher Plane/Realm/Place, not even a Qualitative Superiority like Reality>Fiction. For more details, you can see its page.

1059924120604782662.png
 
 
Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl said:
Firstly, your statement is essentially speculative. You're making too many assumptions without further additions from the feats demonstrated.

Your proposal involves Acausality type 5 here, which is quite stringent on this wiki. So, relying solely on assumptions without further extrapolation unfortunately isn't adequately sufficient for that purpose.

Being beyond the world (space, time, or laws), that encompassing even cause-and-effect systems wouldn't automatically grant you Acausality type 5 though.

Acausality type 5 is a state entirely detached from causality, at every level, completely free from all possible cause-and-effect relationships. This requires a character to be completely unbound by the causality system because its nature lacks connection to all aspects, rather than being independent from conventional reality, which would only imply being in a different causal system.

Hence, this is a crucial distinction between Acausality type 4 and 5. Acausality type 4 only represents independence from the regular or conventional causality system, yet it still resides within an unconventional or irregular causality system. Therefore, changes in the regular causality system no longer affect it.

On the other hand, Acausality type 5 is straightforward, it beyond causality and its systems, existing outside the realm of causality, both regular and irregular, and is entirely non-interactable.

Indeed, it's true that Amelia is entirely outside conventional reality (her world); she resides in the Author's realm. But is she entirely unbound by the causality system? No, she can still be interacted with by the Father—she still exists within the causality system in a higher reality, within the Father's realm.

Furthermore, although she's beyond conventional reality, giving Acausality type 4 to her is a bit excessive. This is because she's only in an irregular state relative to the regular causality system due to the author's realm, which is not technically irregular due to her fundamental existence.

Secondly, much like the first point, you're assuming too much. There's no indication that Amelia is lacking spatial-temporal features, even in state that she superior compared to them. Amelia lacks any explanation about herself lacking spatial-temporal features conceptually. Therefore, the premise that she transcends a world containing spacetime doesn't automatically grant her BDE type 2.

Thirdly, not at all. Existing in a higher realm doesn't provide HDE. Higher Dimensional Existence is essentially bestowed upon characters as having higher dimensions defined mathhematically, whether that's 4D, 5D, or higher. It doesn't come from a Higher Plane/Realm/Place, not even a Qualitative Superiority like Reality>Fiction. For more details, you can see its page.

1059924120604782662.png
Click to expand...
Wait, are you here really reading the feats I gave? What you are saying right now is very contrary to the claims you made before, this will give you a logical fallacy in the form of self-contradiction.

In this feats, of course, there is a specific explanation about the causality system that exists in the world. Basically, the world itself is a story written according to Father will. The one where all the events happened, because Father rote that in a story. This should already be in the achievement I gave there.

In this wiki, they do state that you can't get a type 5 acausal just by outside the world. However, this only applies to fiction that does not provide clarification regarding their causality system: “Being completely independent of space, time, laws, or similar forces does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified,” That means, the character can get acausal type 5 like my explanation. As long as there is an accomplishment that actually alludes to the causality system, like Amelia case now.

She should really have been unable to be interacted with by anything that still had a relation to the causality system, because she herself had directly transcended a story she was in and reached a higher realm. And this happens at the end of the story, where the only person who can interact with Amelia, is only Father. Because Father himself is an early being, who is truly independent of creation, regardless of what system it is. Because he was the one who created everything like that, of course I have applied his feats in my initial explanation.

You have no proof, that Father realm or Library still has acausality system. Of course, this is just your wild assumption, because what I'm saying here is in accordance with the evidence I gave there. After all, it's only natural that fellow acausal type 5 users can interact with each other.

Since they themselves are on the same level, of course there are tons of fiction that have this kind of application. One example is the fiction Yasei no Last Boss, of course you are no stranger to this because you are also a supporter of this fiction. Which is where they, the gods there should have a classification as acausal type 5. Because it completely transcends the law or system of causality, however, they themselves can still interact with each other with fellow gods. Such as their fight with Alovenus at the end of the series, and this is certainly a very similar example to Amelia and Father current state. So, maybe they can turn on each other on this (?) Because their mechanics and performance are the same.

I will immediately deny your two topics, because here the context of Amelia feats is on the same level.

In Father feats or statement about Amelia story ending, it is stated that Amelia is qualitatively superior to the story. Which is where the story or the world cannot have an impact on Amelia, where they think that an empty world is just like paper here. Which is nothing more than holding on to Amelia.

It could be deduced from this, if Father and Amelia accidentally or intentionally thought a story or the world was just paper, that would have absolutely no meaning to them, and they would no longer be able to be affected by something like that because they were basically already superior to that.
 
TheGreatNeithan17097 said:
This is Out of Topic of the CRT but, Isn't this is an Original Character(s)?
Click to expand...
Actually this is a great point. It took me a minute or two to find the actual work this is from (our pages on it are actually the first results), the verse as a whole only has four digit views. Definitely does not fit notability standards.
 
Disagree.

Let's start with your claim about Clementine's Higher Dimensional Existence.
As Akuma said above, to get this Higher Dimensional Existence Ability, you must have several clear Statements and powerful Feats, like the following example:
A. independently of the perceptions, namely by questioning whether the reality above exists independently of the perceptions of the creatures below it or is it just a metaphor and flowery words that are exaggerated?

B. Qualitatively superior, namely by questioning whether the reality has a superior quality than the realm below it, whether the reality is Inconcievable for those below it (this also explains why HDE must be independently of the perceptions), whether the reality mentioned has gaps that cannot be penetrated with only abilities which are usually just Dimensional Travel, or portals.

Even though one of the statements above has been qualified in the fiction in question, it cannot be made into a Higher Realm because it is a standard that must be filled simultaneously. and last and not least:

C. Objects or entities that refer to Higher Dimensional Existence must exist constantly with the part of the reality system that has a larger axis than the entity or reality below it.
(Furthermore, you can check this)

In all the feats and scans that you have provided, there are no statements nor narratives that show the nature of the Higher-Dimensional realm of VSBW's terminology and please come back with adequate feats and scans.


Let's move on to the next claim which are Clementine's Acausality 5.
In case you don't know what are all the conditions that you have to pass to get this ability, then I'll tell you through layman's terms here, so that this debate doesn't go circular in the same direction.

first of all, for Objects and Entities that have Causality Transcendence, they are able to be unaffected by all conventional and unconventional causality in a certain scope of reality (as far as what the feats show). those who have and are in this status are immune to all changes. in the reality in question, and are not physically or supernaturally affected by what happens to the character or object in question. So, there is no such thing as negation for Causality Transcendence because of their unchangeable nature.

In the case of Clementine here it is clear that she does not have Causality Transcendence because she is affected or changed by the Collapsing of the World, and is even capable of almost crushing her. you claim that she has this Causality Transcendence that even she is affected and overwhelmed by the weight of the world? don't make up something without thinking about it first. even the conditions for getting Irregular Causality cannot be passed just with all the Feats and Scans that you provide.
 
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Mr._Bambu said:
Actually this is a great point. It took me a minute or two to find the actual work this is from (our pages on it are actually the first results), the verse as a whole only has four digit views. Definitely does not fit notability standards.
Click to expand...
so wdy think about this? i almost certain that this verse is indeed OC
 
Our rules on the subject can be found here.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Our rules on the subject can be found here.
Click to expand...
According to those guidelines, its fine.
Mr._Bambu said:
Actually this is a great point. It took me a minute or two to find the actual work this is from (our pages on it are actually the first results), the verse as a whole only has four digit views. Definitely does not fit notability standards.
Click to expand...
Also the actual site its officially published on (at the time of me typing this comment) states it has 155,000+ views. The standards don't really say a hard number for views, but I figured id just bring that up becase that information just isnt true.
 
BlueZone said:
Acausality type 5, Beyond Dimensional Existence type 2, Higher Dimensional Existence for Amelia

When Amelia absorbs Olivia's power, she becomes a god who surpasses the three gods who created the world. After that, Amelia came to the place of the Father who created everything. It is stated that Amelia is no longer affected by the world system, as the world has stopped and everything in it has become empty. Since Amelia had reached a higher level, Father offered if she could also have the same role as him.

Additional Range : Thousands of Kilometers with Energia

Agree : @Ikhvagracia ,
Neutral : @TheTrunZ, @JovanaVb
Disagree : @Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl (With Transcendence feats), @AkumaNoHissatsu (With HDE, btw he disappeared, changed their minds maybe?)
Click to expand...
According to the scans, Amelia's world didn't "stop", it outright shows that it was collapsing in on itself (there's more scans in earlier chapters for more context, but we already know the entire reason this was happening was because the entire cosmological structure of her world was unstable), and because it couldn't collapse Amelia, it just simply enveloped her and she "became the world". To elaborate, I don't believe there's anything left of the world and its not a case of her being no longer affected by the world system, but just the world not existing anymore in the first place.

Yes the Father did offer her a similar role to him, but even with that, I don't think thats enough evidence to prove she's not bound by cause and effect anymore. At the very least, it would means she's acting on a different causality system from a reality that sits above her own.

In conclusion:
• I disagree with Type 5 Acausality
• I agree with HDE
• I believe that if she has Beyond Dimension Existence, it would be Type-1, and not Type-2 (She is still bound by spatio-temporal features, ones more real than the ones she comes from, considering her world isnt real to begin with)
 
TheGreatNeithan17097 said:
Disagree.

Let's start with your claim about Clementine's Higher Dimensional Existence.
As Akuma said above, to get this Higher Dimensional Existence Ability, you must have several clear Statements and powerful Feats, like the following example:
A. independently of the perceptions, namely by questioning whether the reality above exists independently of the perceptions of the creatures below it or is it just a metaphor and flowery words that are exaggerated?

B. Qualitatively superior, namely by questioning whether the reality has a superior quality than the realm below it, whether the reality is Inconcievable for those below it (this also explains why HDE must be independently of the perceptions), whether the reality mentioned has gaps that cannot be penetrated with only abilities which are usually just Dimensional Travel, or portals.

Even though one of the statements above has been qualified in the fiction in question, it cannot be made into a Higher Realm because it is a standard that must be filled simultaneously. and last and not least:

C. Objects or entities that refer to Higher Dimensional Existence must exist constantly with the part of the reality system that has a larger axis than the entity or reality below it.
(Furthermore, you can check this)

In all the feats and scans that you have provided, there are no statements nor narratives that show the nature of the Higher-Dimensional realm of VSBW's terminology and please come back with adequate feats and scans.


Let's move on to the next claim which are Clementine's Acausality 5.
In case you don't know what are all the conditions that you have to pass to get this ability, then I'll tell you through layman's terms here, so that this debate doesn't go circular in the same direction.

first of all, for Objects and Entities that have Causality Transcendence, they are able to be unaffected by all conventional and unconventional causality in a certain scope of reality (as far as what the feats show). those who have and are in this status are immune to all changes. in the reality in question, and are not physically or supernaturally affected by what happens to the character or object in question. So, there is no such thing as negation for Causality Transcendence because of their unchangeable nature.

In the case of Clementine here it is clear that she does not have Causality Transcendence because she is affected or changed by the Collapsing of the World, and is even capable of almost crushing her. you claim that she has this Causality Transcendence that even she is affected and overwhelmed by the weight of the world? don't make up something without thinking about it first. even the conditions for getting Irregular Causality cannot be passed just with all the Feats and Scans that you provide.
Click to expand...
I'll respond to this later, my hands are itching to respond it, but I'm in a really bad mood right now.
 
DemiiPowa said:
According to those guidelines, its fine.

Also the actual site its officially published on (at the time of me typing this comment) states it has 155,000+ views. The standards don't really say a hard number for views, but I figured id just bring that up becase that information just isnt true.
Click to expand...
I had missed that, although I'm not as certain as you are. Our rules do specifically state that we must be stricter on self-published materials, which appears to be the case here. I'll call in a couple others.

@Qawsedf234 @Theglassman12 @Deagonx Congratulations on being randomly selected for this. We're dealing with a web novel that may not fit notability standards- it has a total of 155k views and appears to be self-published; additionally it appears to lack enough ratings to even have an indication of its quality on that site, which I take to mean it is very obscure- according to Google, it has two ratings total. I don't know how they're calculating views but something seems off there? Either way, I think it goes against notability standards, what do y'all think?

EDIT: This site is actually riddled with bots, both reviews are bot accounts attempting to get the author to some site? When I google "Papercut Web Novel" I get the page followed by our own verse page on it on VSBW followed by completely irrelevant pages. This definitely does not meet standards, I believe.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
When I google "Papercut Web Novel" I get the page followed by our own verse page on it on VSBW followed by completely irrelevant pages.
Click to expand...
Similarly, when I googled "Amelia Clementine" the first four results are from VSBW forum or wiki, social media profiles of people actually named that, one reference to the web novel. So I'm inclined to agree.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I had missed that, although I'm not as certain as you are. Our rules do specifically state that we must be stricter on self-published materials, which appears to be the case here. I'll call in a couple others.

@Qawsedf234 @Theglassman12 @Deagonx Congratulations on being randomly selected for this. We're dealing with a web novel that may not fit notability standards- it has a total of 155k views and appears to be self-published; additionally it appears to lack enough ratings to even have an indication of its quality on that site, which I take to mean it is very obscure- according to Google, it has two ratings total. I don't know how they're calculating views but something seems off there? Either way, I think it goes against notability standards, what do y'all think?

EDIT: This site is actually riddled with bots, both reviews are bot accounts attempting to get the author to some site? When I google "Papercut Web Novel" I get the page followed by our own verse page on it on VSBW followed by completely irrelevant pages. This definitely does not meet standards, I believe.
Click to expand...
Whether you think it should be removed or not doesnt really matter to me personally, I'm just here because someone called me to this CRT.
giphy.gif
 
DemiiPowa said:
Whether you think it should be removed or not doesnt really matter to me personally, I'm just here because someone called me to this CRT.
giphy.gif
Click to expand...
Yeah, and I appreciate you making it here, I'm not trying to attack you or anything.
 
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