Amber vs deku

[Spinoirr]

Both are small city level and speed is = and Both are fighting in the remment's of Jaku City

Amber:

Deku:

Icon:

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

How does Amber deal with getting ragdolled in mid air?

 

[Spinoirr]

Element intangibility

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Oh yeah that. Why do all visions users have that? Only like 3 characters are known to do it and Mona’s move isn’t intangibility.

 

[Solacis]

Oh yeah that. Why do all visions users have that? Only like 3 characters are known to do it and Mona’s move isn’t intangibility.

All Catalyst users can do it during their plunge attack. Diluc did it in his intro cutscene. Razor did it in his intro cutscene. Zhongli does it in his charged attack. Childe did it to escape the Golden House during the Liyue Story. It's considered as just a thing that any Vision wielder can do, since even someone as inexperienced as Klee can do it.

Elemental Intangibility just means that they can't be hurt like a normal human. You can punch fire or water but you can't hurt it, for example. You can try to disperse the flames, but as shown with Diluc's intro cutscene, where his flames were all in separate streams, that doesn't really affect them either.

 

[Mickey1940]

which Deku is this?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

All Catalyst users can do it during their plunge attack. Diluc did it in his intro cutscene. Razor did it in his intro cutscene. Zhongli does it in his charged attack. Childe did it to escape the Golden House during the Liyue Story. It's considered as just a thing that any Vision wielder can do, since even someone as inexperienced as Klee can do it.

Elemental Intangibility just means that they can't be hurt like a normal human. You can punch fire or water but you can't hurt it, for example. You can try to disperse the flames, but as shown with Diluc's intro cutscene, where his flames were all in separate streams, that doesn't really affect them either.

Catalyst users plunging attacks are described as them gathering the power of the element so much like Mona and Ayaka’s dash its them cloaking themselves in their element.

Razor’s looks like he’s cloaked in his element especially since the lighting is still hitting the ground when he’s already appeared.

Rain of Stone’s charged attack is described as lunging forward while stone spears rain along his path so no he isn’t becoming rocks.

We literally see a bubble of water form around Childe before he flies away.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Elemental intangibility makes no sense for these characters. They’d be virtually invincible if they could do this and the story would most likely treat them as such.

On top of that why is this ability exclusive to vision wielders? What stops creatures that use elements directly from doing this?

 

[Mickey1940]

Catalyst users plunging attacks are described as them gathering the power of the element so much like Mona and Ayaka’s dash its them cloaking themselves in their element.

Razor’s looks like he’s cloaked in his element especially since the lighting is still hitting the ground when he’s already appeared.

Rain of Stone’s charged attack is described as lunging forward while stone spears rain along his path so no he isn’t becoming rocks.

We literally see a bubble of water form around Childe before he flies away.

No, all of the characters are specifically turning into their element

For Catalyst users, their attacks are physically much smaller than their original bodies, even if you use someone like Klee

Razor in the cutscene turns into lightning since during his dash his body isn't there. It's just a bolt of lightning

for Zhongli idk, I don't have him

for Childe, the bubble of water forms around him, and when it disappears, a small water spirit thing emerged

 

[Mickey1940]

Elemental intangibility makes no sense for these characters. They’d be virtually invincible if they could do this and the story would most likely treat them as such.

On top of that why is this ability exclusive to vision wielders? What stops creatures that use elements directly from doing this?

cause no other character has shown anything of the sort

All examples of elemental intangibility are shown by vision users. It's certainly possible that other elemental users can do this, they just haven't shown this yet

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

No, all of the characters are specifically turning into their element

For Catalyst users, their attacks are physically much smaller than their original bodies, even if you use someone like Klee

Razor in the cutscene turns into lightning since during his dash his body isn't there. It's just a bolt of lightning

for Zhongli idk, I don't have him

for Childe, the bubble of water forms around him, and when it disappears, a small water spirit thing emerged

Mona’s dash literally has her disappear and has so little room Klee couldn’t fit yet it’s described as just cloaking herself I water not becoming water.

You can see the orb of light he’s in the lighting trailing behind it. So no his body is there

Doesn’t really disprove my point since he could just be in the water flying away.

Adding on to this, even if they can become their elements they can likely still be harmed since you can harm hydro mimics and hypostasis with physical blows.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

cause no other character has shown anything of the sort

All examples of elemental intangibility are shown by vision users. It's certainly possible that other elemental users can do this, they just haven't shown this yet

So we gonna remove it from Traveler, Venti, Zhongli and Xiao’s pages? They’ve never shown that ability and aren’t a vision wielders.

 

[Mickey1940]

So we gonna remove it from Traveler, Venti, Zhongli and Xiao’s pages? They’ve never shown that ability and aren’t a vision wielders.

Xiao has a vision. It's on his hand. Venti and Zhongli are weird tho.

Traveler is another weird case since he/she mimics the abilities of vision users. But I agree that giving him the benefit of the doubt is a bit weird

 

[Mickey1940]

The Archons definitely have it with their Gnosises, since they're basically just amped Visions. Without them, tho, idk how they can even manipulate the elements to begin with.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Xiao has a vision. It's on his hand. Venti and Zhongli are weird tho.

Traveler is another weird case since he/she mimics the abilities of vision users. But I agree that giving him the benefit of the doubt is a bit weird

All Adepti are said to have the power to manipulate an element. Xiao is said by the devs to wear a vision because he’s just following human convention due to his form.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

The Archons definitely have it with their Gnosises, since they're basically just amped Visions. Without them, tho, idk how they can even manipulate the elements to begin with.

Zhongli and Venti had elemental abilities before they became Archons. Zhongli was an Adeptus and Venti was a wind sprite.

 

[Ronin119]

Tbh i don't know why we are even having an argument about the intangability when Amber screwed here even if she has it, first amber back scales on the razor feat, without it she wouldn't even be tier 7 at all, plus even that feat doesn't out AP Deku, same goes for durability, amber being a bow user and admitting she is bad at hand to hand doesn't do many favors for her either saying deku can close the gap and amber can't do much up close against him, baron bunny is useless here for obvious reasons, and deku can simply walk out of her ult.

The only way i see amber winning this is with a clean headshot from a far, or maybe her better experience and skill over deku, but sides from that deku basically no-diffs

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku fortnite dances midair while approaching and dodging everything before beating her up

 

[Jackpact]

Amber can't do anything here and the ap, dura and abilities advantage get Deku the win if not stomp.

About the intangibility argument, you're basically saying that Mona while cloaking her self somehow can dissolve down to water? Cloaking doesn't work like that friend and about Razor thing, he was raised and fight by wolf he was acting somewhat like a wolf and his instinct was that of a wolf so of course he's gonna touch the ground as that is what he normally do and turning into their element allow allogenes to go faster so he could also use that as a boost but still do the same thing he always do such as bouncing off rock.

The traveller should have their intangibility and barrier remove, they are intuned not allogenes they're basically like xiao venti or zhongli who don't need vision to use their element and those 3 never show the ability to do so and neither do they have a real vision.

Also all of the instance that they turn into the element, the element is almost alway smaller then their real body or is compacted so unless you want to argue every catalyst user somehow roll themselves up, fall down and hit the ground in a normal falling position despite still being in a shape of a ball just before hitting the ground or they some how turn into a shape half their size and not even elongated in any form then go ahead that would be some pretty insane skill feat if you can.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

About the intangibility argument, you're basically saying that Mona while cloaking her self somehow can dissolve down to water? Cloaking doesn't work like that friend and about Razor thing, he was raised and fight by wolf he was acting somewhat like a wolf and his instinct was that of a wolf so of course he's gonna touch the ground as that is what he normally do and turning into their element allow allogenes to go faster so he could also use that as a boost but still do the same thing he always do such as bouncing off rock.


Also all of the instance that they turn into the element, the element is almost alway smaller then their real body or is compacted so unless you want to argue every catalyst user somehow roll themselves up, fall down and hit the ground in a normal falling position despite still being in a shape of a ball just before hitting the ground or they some how turn into a shape half their size and not even elongated in any form then go ahead that would be some pretty insane skill feat that not even earl is gonna argue for ikki.

Whether cloaking works like that or not isn't my problem. That's what the game tells us about that ability. Never said anything about being a wolf and touching the ground I meant we see his body fully formed and having landed yet lighting is still raining down.

Once again game description. You're perfectly welcome to claim your own interpretation supersedes the facts from the game. Claiming how odd it looks doesn't really debunk it.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

There's also the fact that in lore vision wielders don't just become their element when it's convenient such as when Amber is trying to evade Krupp.

 

[Mickey1940]

Amber has taunt, which prevents Deku from dodging. Why is Baron Bunny useless?

She also has Pyro shields

also flight and intangibility like what we were discussing before

I'm not saying she wins. But shouldn't these factors be considered?

 

[Ronin119]

Amber has taunt, which prevents Deku from dodging. Why is Baron Bunny useless?

She also has Pyro shields

also flight and intangibility like what we were discussing before

I'm not saying she wins. But shouldn't these factors be considered?

Are you really saying that in an actual vs fight you would let the doll work? If so then Deku is permanently stuck fighting the dolls because amber in lore has a crap ton of them, so then it would be a stomp plus it sounds stupid lol.

The pyro shield puts her in a worse position then better because once she brings it up, she's basically asking for deku to close the gap, and once that happens its GG.

Amber can't attack when she turns into pyro, simple.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I won't assume the dolls are useless at all. Instead, I propose the argument of: Deku just binds the dolls with Blackwhip and throws them away.

There's also the ghosts living in his head that might force him to focus on her and not them. So I don't see how they're an issue considering his ability to multitask.

 

[Mickey1940]

Are you really saying that in an actual vs fight you would let the doll work? If so then Deku is permanently stuck fighting the dolls because amber in lore has a crap ton of them, so then it would be a stomp plus it sounds stupid lol.

The pyro shield puts her in a worse position then better because once she brings it up, she's basically asking for deku to close the gap, and once that happens its GG.

Amber can't attack when she turns into pyro, simple.

considering how it's able to fool literally every enemy in the game, it's not that unrealistic

She uses the shield and sets Deku on fire, so he can't get close very easily. Plus she can just fly away after blocking the attack

when she turns into Pyro she can get into a better position to attack. She's a bow user after all

 

[Jackpact]

Whether cloaking works like that or not isn't my problem. That's what the game tells us about that ability. Never said anything about being a wolf and touching the ground I meant we see his body fully formed and having landed yet lighting is still raining down.

Once again game description. You're perfectly welcome to claim your own interpretation supersedes the facts from the game. Claiming how odd it looks doesn't really debunk it.

In game description can some time be wrong you know and it doesn't help that feat is above statement so showing of it not just cloaking but straight up turn into it to move would disprove it, plunging like using their skill and barrier require elemental energy gathering so i really don't know what you mean about that.

Description isn't always fact unless you want to say a ramdom soldier can kill the traveller beacause they wield a sword that can split mountain in the description and said weapon can be found sold by the balck smith. You really shouldn't take description as fact unless it was backup by something that isn't just "beacause the game designer name it that way it's fact".

 

[Kingofwolves999]

considering how it's able to fool literally every enemy in the game, it's not that unrealistic

She uses the shield and sets Deku on fire, so he can't get close very easily. Plus she can just fly away after blocking the attack

when she turns into Pyro she can get into a better position to attack. She's a bow user after all

Doesn’t her shield not protect against different elements? What does she do if he launches air pressure at her shield?

 

[Jackpact]

Doesn’t her shield not protect against different elements? What does she do if he launches air pressure at her shield?

Her shield can protect against other element just not straight up nulify it like with the same element.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Then isn’t she still stuck? He can break the shield with his air pressure by that logic, or grab and toss her with Blackwhip or even just tank the fire and kick through it.

Also, as I’ve said for other threads, Deku is under revision due to his new quirks, one of which might actually make this a stomp if it is what I think it is. So keep that in mind that what he has and how he fights might change a lot in a few weeks.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

In game description can some time be wrong you know and it doesn't help that feat is above statement so showing of it not just cloaking but straight up turn into it to move would disprove it, plunging like using their skill and barrier require elemental energy gathering so i really don't know what you mean about that.

Description isn't always fact unless you want to say a ramdom soldier can kill the traveller beacause they wield a sword that can split mountain in the description and said weapon can be found sold by the balck smith. You really shouldn't take description as fact unless it was backup by something that isn't just "beacause the game designer name it that way it's fact".

So you're more correct than the people who made the product? It's either cloaking or water can be harmed in genshin cause Mona can still get hit in that state.

You talking about protoype rancour? It isn't sold by the blacksmith (it's never even said to split mountains just cuts through rock easily). Your character brings special materials so they can forge it for you. No soldier in game even wields it since most soldiers wield 2 star weapons at most. Your interpretation of game design and mechanics doesn't hold more weight than the game itself. Heck by your logic the prototype rancour description holds no water since we never see the sword do it

 

[Ronin119]

Deku's air pressure would count as anemo (wind) so he's able to break through especially with the AP difference

 

[Jackpact]

So you're more correct than the people who made the product? It's either cloaking or water can be harmed in genshin cause Mona can still get hit in that state.

You talking about protoype rancour? It isn't sold by the blacksmith (it's never even said to split mountains just cuts through rock easily). Your character brings special materials so they can forge it for you. No soldier in game even wields it since most soldiers wield 2 star weapons at most. Your interpretation of game design and mechanics doesn't hold more weight than the game itself. Heck by your logic the prototype rancour description holds no water since we never see the sword do it

Ever heard of game mechanic? If player can just become invincible for 15s straight and just chug stamina food and use her as a emergency panic button it going to break the game so of course they're going to hit her, you need to separate the one that seem legit and the one that is for balance purpose like every character not have a shield roughly 5x their attack or the thing i said above theese type of change are for balance and not indicative of what it actually do.

No the two star sword, it have mountain splitting statement and the heck your on i said if we take the description at it face value like you and ignore the showing then it would have the ability to split mountain.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I mean, if I’m being honest here, the whole fight is just “how long can Amber stall Deku out before he beats her up.” The only thing that could be a threat to him is the dolls I suppose? Which he would get away from before they explode because Danger Sense would tell him to back off. He dodges all her arrows and thrashes her in cqc. He has the stat advantage as well as mobility advantage.

So she can stall, but he’ll break through all of it eventually.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Ever heard of game mechanic? If player can just become invincible for 15s straight and just chug stamina food and use her as a emergency panic button it going to break the game so of course they're going to hit her, you need to separate the one that seem legit and the one that is for balance purpose like every character not have a shield roughly 5x their attack or the thing i said above theese type of change are for balance and not indicative of what it actually do.

No the two star sword, it have mountain splitting statement and the heck your on i said if we take the description at it face value like you and ignore the showing then it would have the ability to split mountain.

So game mechanics are a thing now? Yet Amber and many other characters gaining passive abilities from constellations is listed on their profiles. Along with Baron Bunny being a taunt to anyone of human intelligence or characters like Amber or Jean summoning weapons. Also Mona's sprint wouldn't be broken with invincibility since Zhongli's shield exists after all. Plus you can only use stamina food like every 5 minutes and it only gives less than 50% of your max stamina.

Please tell me where it says the Silver Sword can cleave mountains.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Also wasn't it you who argued feats over statements? I have an objective feat of Mona getting hit through her 'elemental intangibility' but here you are arguing against it with no proof whatsoever.

 

[Jackpact]

The more i talk about it the more i see problem that i already have suspicion about... Well guess you can make a downgrade thread and see solacis argument since he is currently responsible for all of the profile. As for the match with or without intangibility she still gonna lose due to Deku versatility and base ap and dura advantage.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Right guess I'll get on that CRT then

 

[Ronin119]

Who was getting nerfed, or is it a blanket nerf to the verse for intangability?

 

[Jackpact]

Blanket since he is arguing that none of the character that shown intangibility have it at all.

 

[Jackpact]

Wel that and we need to discuss more on the verse stuff which everyone ignore when i brought up so i just left it to, but i doubt it's going to change much since everyone seem sick and tired of talking about power and abilities anyway.