Alucard(Hellsing) Immortality and Vulnerability

[Random-Helper323]

And for those who doubt about my box, here is the image.

Thanks for the information and for your time.

 

[Crabwhale]

And for those who doubt about my box, here is the image.

What language translation is that?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

What language translation is that?

Portuguese from Brazil, from JBC publishing house that unfortunately is no longer available for purchase (as well as a dragon ball box that I couldn't buy in time).

 

[Deceived3596]

Fam I don't think you can get more explicit than this.

The implications of these scans are very clear, it's implying that since Alucard possesses "millions" of souls within him, he's capable of continuously regenerating via those souls, with this being further supported by Alexander Anderson's own observations, saying that the reason why Alucard's not capable of being fully killed is because of the souls within him sustaining his continued existence through the act of regeneration, something that's demonstrably shown in the series a plethora of times.

I haven't seen a persuasive argument against this interpretation yet, so i disagree with the thread.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Portuguese from Brazil, from JBC publishing house that unfortunately is no longer available for purchase (as well as a dragon ball box that I couldn't buy in time).

Shame. You might be able to try getting it online, but that's hard.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The implications of these scans are very clear, it's implying that since Alucard possesses "millions" of souls within him, he's capable of continuously regenerating via those souls, with this being further supported by Alexander Anderson's own observations, saying that the reason why Alucard's not capable of being fully killed is because of the souls within him sustaining his continued existence through the act of regeneration, something that's demonstrably shown in the series a plethora of times.

I haven't seen a persuasive argument against this interpretation yet, so i disagree with the thread.

And even if there was an argument against it, we'd need proof that a holy weapon in the heart will always kill him.

 

[JackWhite-01]

You're new here, so FYI members can indeed back up an argument by simply saying "agreed/disagreed/neutral for reasons above", also known as FRA.

Not everybody is expected to just type up text walls every time they have an opinion if somebody else has done it for them.

Well, lemme tell you something. I'm not trying to be condescending or anything but I feel that I'm dishing out an equal contest as well so If he thought the opposition one-upped me in this dispute, I would like to know why. I'm that type of debater.

 

[JackWhite-01]

Read the thread, that should give you a clue

Oh I did, but I genuinely want to know your strongest defense argument, that's all.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Well, lemme tell you something. I'm not trying to be condescending or anything but I feel that I'm dishing out an equal contest as well so If he thought the opposition one-upped me in this dispute, I would like to know why. I'm that type of debater.

In fairness, I can see where you're coming from on this. DaReaperMan is within his right to make a vote, and his vote really isn't that big of a deal so I don't know why you feel the need to confront him on it, but I can understand why you'd at least want to hear a brief overview of why that's what seems reasonable to him. What you're doing borders on an attempt at intimidation though, so I'd recommend relaxing a bit.

Anyway, in regards to the argument, if you want your interpretation to actually have a foundation, you need to provide the following:

1. Proof that the translation you've been citing exists (scans or links would suffice). The entirety of your dismissal of the statements about Alucard's lives is based on this translation, which so far you have yet to even show us, much less prove its accuracy.

2. A solid reason why it supersedes the official translation we've all been been using, and simultaneously supersedes the Portuguese translation Phsccarvalho provided. This will also have to include a solid explanation why Walter basically pissed his pants when Alucard started drinking all the blood, and why it was treated as the end of Walter's chance of winning. In order for this translation to supersede the ones we've been citing, it needs to be verifiably more accurate, and also needs to actually fit with how the characters behave in regards to Alucard drinking all the blood during his fight with Walter.

3. Proof Alucard will always die if stabbed in the heart with a holy weapon. Even if you prove your translation is a go, this will actually just remove Alucard's limited number of regeneration chances. It won't prove he'll die from a holy weapon in the heart.

Provide all three of those things. Let me pre-emptively say that shifting the burden of proof onto us when we have official translation quotes which decisively say Alucard has to be killed thousands of times, will not count as a substitute. Vaguely talking about the translation without providing it and arbitrarily deciding it's more viable than what we've used, will also not satisfy this criteria. Finally, when we know Alucard can regenerate from far worse than heart destruction, we need actual proof that any lesser wound, including a holy weapon to the heart, will kill him. The fact we've seen him still regenerate from wounds inflicted with holy weapons also gives us even more reason to doubt such a thing will work, since we know holy weapons don't completely nullify his healing, and the burden of proof was already on whoever suggests it would kill him. In short, we don't need proof he'll survive it because we know he survives far worse; we need to find proof he won't survive it despite his regeneration.

 

[JackWhite-01]

It's the official translation.

So what's wrong with the translation in the non-deluxe version?

Even your own quote talks about Walter losing his chance. How did he get that chance when he doesn't have any holy weapons? Why did he lose it when Alucard drains all the blood?

I believe that 'chance' he was referring to was that Walter wanted to fight on his own and wanted to slay him on his own(But as the Major stated that Walter still can't beat him even when he has no soul stock). And Walter made a statement saying that he didn't want to win by 'luck'(Schrodinger intervening) and The Major said it was too late and their plan was for Alucard to absorb Schrodinger and his nature to erase him out of existence to win the war.

I know. I never said otherwise. I just couldn't be ****** to list all that irrelevant B.S about the armies when I had to type those entire quotes out on a phone which was lagging and attempting to **** up my writing with autocorrect.

rough. When you didn't mention that I thought you misinterpreted it.

Then why did Walter "lose his chance" even in whatever you're quoting?

As mentioned above

It was one chance. The Major said it was the once in a lifetime chance to kill him, but neither person would get him. It doesn't mean they couldn't have possibly killed him; the Major anticipated Alucard would win even when vulnerable. Obviously the other chance referred to Abraham beating him.

That one chance wasn't referring to Walter's chance of slaying Alucard. The major stated that he can't beat him even without possessing a soul stock so how he can even have a chance to beat him when he couldn't? Also, how can you exclude the one thing that actually beat Alucard and was erased from existence temporarily? The second chance was indeed referring to Schrodinger falling in the London blood so Alucard absorbs and the major states it in future tense, not in a past tense. "this truly will be the chance of a lifetime."

Cool. Good chance they are. Prove they could have killed him when he had souls, even though it's expressly stated they can't.

Who is this 'they' you are referring to?
If Abraham Van Helsing left Dracula on the verge of death(even when he could have used souls to regenerate and endlessly tire out Van Helsing) but chose not to finish him off and spared him to use him as a weapon, demonstrates that Alucard can be killed when he had souls. IF Abraham Van Helsing wanted to finish him off, he would have been dead and this was one of the chances as stated by the Major to defeat Alucard.
Also, where is it explicitly stated that he can't die when he has souls?

Unless he summoned them anew.

Highly unlikely, even before Anderson and Alucard fought, Anderson said "He is one man, a single vampire" so that tears down the possibility of him not releasing all the souls at once.

He said that after the fight with Anderson.

As mentioned just above^

Cool. Because Anderson burned the last of them in their final clash. What are you even talking about here?

We see the familiars charging alongside Alucard and they vanish after he impales Anderson's heart out his chest, so the vines most likely killed them off.

Which means nothing, we know he still has regeneration without souls. It's just that his heightened regeneration which can recover from fatal blows even by vampire standards involves the souls. I say that as someone who would love for that regeneration to be unlimited, but still can't lie about the statements and events.

Oh it does, how does Alucard regenerate something without souls that were fatal to him in the Bram stoker era; that being decapitated by Monster of God Anderson?

Sigh... See above...

As mentioned above yet again.

Big shocker... Another nothing. I read this part first, and was wondering what you'd introduced, and naturally, it's nothing but old ground which is self-evident in the manga itself. We all know vampires without souls can still regenerate.

Look, we know Alucard is stated to be vulnerable after his souls are gone. We also know that when he absorbs lots of blood that vulnerability is treated as vanishing. We also know multiple statements in the official translation say he has those lives.

The strongest evidence of Alucard using souls to regenerate was from Anderson and that was contradicted later on in the manga and I even mentioned earlier.

Even without that, ironically without the soul numbers, it would actually suggest Alucard just had that regeneration regardless. We have not received any statements suggesting that piercing his heart with holy weapons will kill him, and the fact that Anderson rammed three seperate blessed bayonets into the area where Alucard's heart would be (I'm counting them in the manga itself right now, and referring to the ones over the heart area, not in his whole chest, so don't bother trying to nitpick that to try to discredit me), and the fact that when Walter attempted to spear Alucard's heart he used a random length of metal he ripped out of some rubble, the story doesn't exactly point to that either.

Now, I agree Alucard did suffer bayonets to the heart but compare this, how is it that it took him far longer to regenerate after being seemingly lifeless in comparison to when he was gunned down(you can see gaping holes in his chest cavity and more specifically the thoracic cavity which means his heart was affected but he regenerated far more quickly and pretty much nigh-instantaneously? Notice how with non-holy weapons damage to the heart, he can regenerate instantly but with the damage dealt to his heart with a holy weapon, it took him far longer. This a testament to how holy weapons only deal damage to Alucard. Also, Integra did say that decapitation and being staked to the heart won't work and cannot be killed like an ordinary vampire because he is 100 years of Hellsing's perfection meaning that they experimented on him to be immune to traditional vampiric weakness(except holy weapons and water). Also, if you say they experimented on him to use souls to regenerate, that contradicts the strongest proof of suggestion which is when Anderson speaks out on the reason why Alucard didn't die because he has a vast number of souls and spoke in a manner that was his innate natural vampiric ability.

I also have no clue what you're talking about with seperate translations, which you're constantly bringing up against the official ones we all have, and arbitrarily deciding that your translation (which none of us have been shown) is accurate while the Dark Horse comics version is not. You're also pushing your interpretation as more accurate than either the soul count or the simple "we don't ******* know" version which would be the reality if the soul count was discredited. Where does holy weapons insta-killing him no matter what even come from?

I have opened 4 sites of mangas to read and all of them have the same translation and are far older than the deluxe one. Also, The deluxe one just came out 2 years ago, so why are you giving it more credibility than the one translation that was used as a basis during the OVA days? And also, why does the deluxe and non-deluxe translation differ in several statements?
holy weapons being his weakness only is deduced from what is implied and stated.

In short, the burdon of proof is firmly on you to specifically prove that a holy weapon in the heart will kill him. Even if we decided there was insufficient proof of the soul count regeneration boost, that would actually make Alucard stronger, not weaker, since it would mean he regenerates like that regardless. Even then, you'd still have to prove that specifically a holy weapon in the heart will kill him. Otherwise the only provable way to kill him would be to damage him beyond his regeneration's limits or nullify it.

what Integra implies is that Alucard is experimented on to be immune to traditional vampiric weaknesses since the novel is canon completely(except Dracula's fate and subsequent events). it says that Dracula's regeneration is not sourced from blood and blood only rejuvenates his strength and youth. Also, The Hellsing Organization most probably augmented Alucard's regeneration to a higher degree of power which is confirmed as Hirano suggested that the Hellsing Organization indeed modify his power.
So what else is left on the table? Holy weapons. No matter how much alchemy, science, or occult they use; they can't make him immune to that and they probably knew that for two reasons.
1. impossible
2. Keeping a vulnerability just in case an ultimate WMD goes AWOL(which is unlikely of happening but just in case)
Also, I gave source of Hirano confirming the Bram Stoker Novel is canon. So whatever statements in the novel can be applied here to substantiate.

 

[JackWhite-01]

Wrong, that was one of the chances.

No, I explained it in my other comment. Go check it out.

Official translation from my country:

"It's already too late for anything. You are no longer able to defeat him, you missed your last chance

I gave you a unique opportunity. You had the chance to physically finish off Alucard. Something that hasn't happened since 1898.

* part talking about the characters who participated in this massacre in England *

A unique chance that was created thanks to all this. The only instant in which it would be possible to kill Alucard.

How many lives do you think he has now? One million, two million. You are no longer a match for him."

Right after that, Alucard brags about telling Walter to try to kill him a thousands more times.

Again, official translation, not one made by an internet scan.

Of course, totally ignoring the part of Major saying "How the hell many lives does Alucard haf now? A million? Two million? You can no longer beat him."


Wrong translation, I have an official hellsing box that is not the deluxe one but one that is the 10 volumes and the translation aligns with Random-Helper's.

Yeah go tell that to ***********, mangafire, ************ and manganato

----------------------------------------

Seriously, we have Alexander talking about Alucard and his many lives, and that this is why he doesn't die.

This same line which is the strongest proof of Alucard's soul stock dependent is implied in the translation I was talking about.

Right after Alexander burns all of Alucard's souls and leaves him empty, we are shown that this is Walter's chance to kill Alucard.

No, did you even read my comments right? He never had the chance. Even the major knew that.

When Walter fails to do so in time and Alucard ends up absorbing the blood, the Major comments that Walter missed his chance to kill Alucard and even wonders how many lives he has now.

read the entire chapter from start. You are missing context. i explained it in my other comment.

And right after Walter cuts Alucard in half, Alucard brags telling Walter to keep killing him thousands more times.

No, he didn't. In the translation I use, Alucard started talking about Anderson.

I disagree with the topic.

read my comments first entirely and then evaluate.

 

[JackWhite-01]

DaReaperMan is fully allowed to read your arguments, mine and Crabwhale's, and draw a conclusion. He doesn't have to be staff or make long arguments of his own to do so. Just as you're fully allowed to make these arguments against an admin, and that admin will rightly be called out if he bans you for disagreeing with him or otherwise silences you, not that Crabwhale would ever do something that pathetic; he's a bigger man than that. In short, be glad we're not like all the communities which silence everyone they don't want to hear. You should probably thank Antvasima for that, because the Wiki was a lot more like that before he came along.

what a guy

By the same token, many people simply lazily side with whatever verse they support or go against whatever verse they oppose, including staff, and these staff votes often are called out as not being worth much at all, certainly not as much as the vote of a staff member who is actively involved and knowledgeable. There have been cases of such input being ignored entirely due to the person's vote on that subject being utterly biased and useless, in fact. If they're someone who'll support any downgrade for a verse they hate, for example, even if the downgrade goes against basic rules and requires an extreme double standard, then no-one's really going to care when they inevitably support every downgrade thread for that verse.

hmm

---

Anyway, ramble over. Back on topic, we can narrow this down, since even if you were able to debunk the soul count stuff (which you haven't) you still have to prove that this guy who can regenerate from a puddle will die if stabbed in the heart specifically with a holy weapon. You're talking about that with no proof, and meanwhile you talk about some other translation which you can't seem to provide or authenticate, but have regardless decided is more accurate than the official Dark Horse translation. And this other translation is basically your entire basis for discrediting the soul number regeneration.

Sure I did.

So for bare minimum, you need to prove that translation even exists, and then you need to prove it is more accurate than the official ones we have. Phsccarvalho has now very kindly provided a mention of another language's translation which also lines up with the official ones we have. And even then the soul count being irrelevant contradicts what we clearly see happening and the context. Even if this somehow amounted to throwing the soul count out, that would actually just mean his regeneration was always like that, and you would then have to prove that a holy weapon in the heart would kill him. Not to mention explaining why Walter peed his pants when Alucard started absorbing all the blood.

The soul count being irrelevant just validates the story and powers of Alucard. I will be brutally honest here when I got into anime for the first time, it was around the time I started pitting characters against each other and seeing who is more powerful and has a stronger array of hax and vulnerabilities as well. When I watched Hellsing Ultimate and finished it; not once I assumed or comprehended that Alucard used souls to regenerate. not even once. I found out about the soul count thing and I was confused because it was never demonstrated in the franchise as there were moments where Alucard regenerated a lethal attack without souls.

 

[Random-Helper323]

So what's wrong with the translation in the non-deluxe version?

Present it. I've said this repeatedly present it, or at least provide a link to it, or at least tell us where to look.

I believe that 'chance' he was referring to was that Walter wanted to fight on his own and wanted to slay him on his own(But as the Major stated that Walter still can't beat him even when he has no soul stock). And Walter made a statement saying that he didn't want to win by 'luck'(Schrodinger intervening) and The Major said it was too late and their plan was for Alucard to absorb Schrodinger and his nature to erase him out of existence to win the war.

This doesn't answer how he lost that chance.

That one chance wasn't referring to Walter's chance of slaying Alucard. The major stated that he can't beat him even without possessing a soul stock so how he can even have a chance to beat him when he couldn't? Also, how can you exclude the one thing that actually beat Alucard and was erased from existence temporarily? The second chance was indeed referring to Schrodinger falling in the London blood so Alucard absorbs and the major states it in future tense, not in a past tense. "this truly will be the chance of a lifetime."

All one opportunity, the first time Alucard has been vulnerable in centuries.

Who is this 'they' you are referring to?

Holy weapons in the heart.

Oh it does, how does Alucard regenerate something without souls that were fatal to him in the Bram stoker era; that being decapitated by Monster of God Anderson?

The idea that Alucard is vulnerable once he releases the army is only Anderson's statement. The Major only says it after the soul army is destroyed. Anderson is a less reliable source than the Major.

Now, I agree Alucard did suffer bayonets to the heart but compare this, how is it that it took him far longer to regenerate after being seemingly lifeless in comparison to when he was gunned down(you can see gaping holes in his chest cavity and more specifically the thoracic cavity which means his heart was affected but he regenerated far more quickly and pretty much nigh-instantaneously? Notice how with non-holy weapons damage to the heart, he can regenerate instantly but with the damage dealt to his heart with a holy weapon, it took him far longer. This a testament to how holy weapons only deal damage to Alucard.

At best this makes them a weakness, not an instant kill. You yourself even said earlier that Alucard might have takenttime on purpose to make Seras drink his blood. Another thing is Alucard implied he was out of shape and hadn't had to regenerate from that much damage in a while. I'll open the manga again and find that statement.

I have opened 4 sites of mangas to read and all of them have the same translation and are far older than the deluxe one.

Wait, manga sites? Are you using scanlations?

Also, The deluxe one just came out 2 years ago, so why are you giving it more credibility than the one translation that was used as a basis during the OVA days?

Even the OVA talks about how Alucard can't die because of how many lives he has.

holy weapons being his weakness only is deduced from what is implied and stated.

Weakness doesn't equal instant kill.

 

[JackWhite-01]

In fairness, I can see where you're coming from on this. DaReaperMan is within his right to make a vote, and his vote really isn't that big of a deal so I don't know why you feel the need to confront him on it, but I can understand why you'd at least want to hear a brief overview of why that's what seems reasonable to him. What you're doing borders on an attempt at intimidation though, so I'd recommend relaxing a bit.

wow, my siblings , parents and few friends say I get aggressive even when I'm not trying to be, and that applies even here. wow

Anyway, in regards to the argument, if you want your interpretation to actually have a foundation, you need to provide the following:

1. Proof that the translation you've been citing exists (scans or links would suffice). The entirety of your dismissal of the statements about Alucard's lives is based on this translation, which so far you have yet to even show us, much less prove its accuracy.

here

2. A solid reason why it supersedes the official translation we've all been been using, and simultaneously supersedes the Portuguese translation Phsccarvalho provided. This will also have to include a solid explanation why Walter basically pissed his pants when Alucard started drinking all the blood, and why it was treated as the end of Walter's chance of winning. In order for this translation to supersede the ones we've been citing, it needs to be verifiably more accurate, and also needs to actually fit with how the characters behave in regards to Alucard drinking all the blood during his fight with Walter.

If it is taking over, why do some of the lines have different meanings and intentions from the non-deluxe one?

3. Proof Alucard will always die if stabbed in the heart with a holy weapon. Even if you prove your translation is a go, this will actually just remove Alucard's limited number of regeneration chances. It won't prove he'll die from a holy weapon in the heart.

Provide all three of those things. Let me pre-emptively say that shifting the burden of proof onto us when we have official translation quotes which decisively say Alucard has to be killed thousands of times, will not count as a substitute. Vaguely talking about the translation without providing it and arbitrarily deciding it's more viable than what we've used, will also not satisfy this criteria. Finally, when we know Alucard can regenerate from far worse than heart destruction, we need actual proof that any lesser wound, including a holy weapon to the heart, will kill him. The fact we've seen him still regenerate from wounds inflicted with holy weapons also gives us even more reason to doubt such a thing will work, since we know holy weapons don't completely nullify his healing, and the burden of proof was already on whoever suggests it would kill him. In short, we don't need proof he'll survive it because we know he survives far worse; we need to find proof he won't survive it despite his regeneration.

I explained it in my previous comment.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

If it is taking over, why do some of the lines have different meanings and intentions from the non-deluxe one?

You are literally using a fan translation with obviously wrong translations and using them as an argument.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

No, I explained it in my other comment. Go check it out.

Yeah go tell that to ***********, mangafire, ************ and manganato

This same line which is the strongest proof of Alucard's soul stock dependent is implied in the translation I was talking about.

No, did you even read my comments right? He never had the chance. Even the major knew that.

read the entire chapter from start. You are missing context. i explained it in my other comment.

No, he didn't. In the translation I use, Alucard started talking about Anderson.

read my comments first entirely and then evaluate.

Seriously, incredible, besides answering nothing.

Continuously the OP is using a fan-made translation, badly translated, with translation errors.

Totally ignoring the official translated versions.

The most obvious part of this being the line of Alucard telling Walter to kill him multiple times. The translation used by the OP is wrong, but he totally ignores it.

 

[JackWhite-01]

Present it. I've said this repeatedly present it, or at least provide a link to it, or at least tell us where to look.

here u go

This doesn't answer how he lost that chance.

He lost the chance to prove that he was stronger and to slay him but he lost it because Alucard has begun to absorb the London which kickstarts the Major real plan to defeat Alucard so that he can absorb Schrodinger and his nature.

All one opportunity, the first time Alucard has been vulnerable in centuries.

That being was when he started to absorb the blood of London

Holy weapons in the heart.

It's deduced and explained in my previous comment. I can't type large comments because I have to go prepare for my exams coming up.

The idea that Alucard is vulnerable once he releases the army is only Anderson's statement. The Major only says it after the soul army is destroyed. Anderson is a less reliable source than the Major.

In which chapter does he say that?

At best this makes them a weakness, not an instant kill. You yourself even said earlier that Alucard might have takenttime on purpose to make Seras drink his blood. Another thing is Alucard implied he was out of shape and hadn't had to regenerate from that much damage in a while. I'll open the manga again and find that statement.

The reason why I said that at first was because Anderson only mentioned that he decapitated him but looking back, you could say his heart with a bayonet but not push deeply in.

Wait, manga sites? Are you using scanlations?

yeah

Even the OVA talks about how Alucard can't die because of how many lives he has.

The same line Anderson used suggesting that Alucard uses souls to regenerate in the translation I use.

Weakness doesn't equal instant kill.

It can if you are using the best of it.

 

[Random-Helper323]

wow, my siblings , parents and few friends say I get aggressive even when I'm not trying to be, and that applies even here. wow

It's a bit of a grey area. Calling out someone whose input isn't even based on information but on bias is totally reasonable. If for example, someone hates Superman because of the Goku vs Superman Death Battle and has been known to celebrate any downgrade, respond to reasonable arguments with childish comments calling Superman the Man of Shit, muse about knocking Superman down as many pegs as they can, and have been seen supporting a downgrade thread that attempted to argue that none of Superman's on-panel speed feats count because we have no reliable time frame on a static image and the narrator isn't reliable, and meanwhile they would never support a similar argument for any other comic or manga verse, don't be surprised when no-one counts that person's vote when they inevitably vote in favour of every thread that downgrades Superman.

However, calling someone out with no real reason is just being aggressive and arguably even trying to bully them into being quiet. I'm going to assume that was not your intention, but it does send a negative impression to people and should be avoided or at least tempered.

here

If it is taking over, why do some of the lines have different meanings and intentions from the non-deluxe one.

If you'd provided that earlier, things would be better. It's a scanlation. It's a fan-made translation. It isn't the official version.

 

[Crabwhale]

Even then, in said fan translation, the Major still talks about how many millions of lives Alucard has left, thereby still providing a direct link to the soul regen. JackWhite, bro, you are literally contradicting your own sources.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

So what's wrong with the translation in the non-deluxe version?

You are using fan-made translations that have glaring translation errors.
Also, I also have the physical hellsing manga other than the deluxe one and her translation collaborates with Random-Helper's.

Yeah go tell that to ***********, mangafire, ************ and manganato

Yes, because clearly fan translations > multiple official translations (contain sarcasm).

read the entire chapter from start. You are missing context. i explained it in my other comment.

And I recommend stopping using fan-made translations that clearly have translation errors.

No, he didn't. In the translation I use, Alucard started talking about Anderson.

No, he didn't start. This is a big mistranslation of the fan translation you are using.

It's Alucard telling Walter to keep killing him.

read my comments first entirely and then evaluate.

Yes, I looked at all your comments. The arguments against are better, especially with you using wrong translations to base yourself, as well as trying to use something we haven't seen and we don't know how it happened, which in this case is the battle of van helsing.

Despite being based on Bram Stoker's version, they are different, starting with Alucard's abilities. And if it underwent improvements, it gets worse for you, because we are evaluating the current and not the past.

 

[JackWhite-01]

Seriously, incredible, besides answering nothing.

Continuously the OP is using a fan-made translation, badly translated, with translation errors.

Totally ignoring the official translated versions.

The most obvious part of this being the line of Alucard telling Walter to kill him multiple times. The translation used by the OP is wrong, but he totally ignores it.

wow, I actually did not know that scanlations were looked down upon and shouldn't be used as a source but is there any way where I could use a site that has an official translation?

 

[JackWhite-01]

It's a bit of a grey area. Calling out someone whose input isn't even based on information but on bias is totally reasonable. If for example, someone hates Superman because of the Goku vs Superman Death Battle and has been known to celebrate any downgrade, respond to reasonable arguments with childish comments calling Superman the Man of Shit, muse about knocking Superman down as many pegs as they can, and have been seen supporting a downgrade thread that attempted to argue that none of Superman's on-panel speed feats count because we have no reliable time frame on a static image and the narrator isn't reliable, and meanwhile they would never support a similar argument for any other comic or manga verse, don't be surprised when no-one counts that person's vote when they inevitably vote in favour of every thread that downgrades Superman.

However, calling someone out with no real reason is just being aggressive and arguably even trying to bully them.

If you'd provided that earlier, things would be better. It's a scanlation. It's a fan-made translation. It isn't the official version.

I see, I actually wasn't aware of that scanlations but you could say they are accurate to an extent. But can I have the site for an official translation?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

wow, I actually did not know that scanlations were looked down upon and shouldn't be used as a source but is there any way where I could use a site that has an official translation?

They are not underrated, they are used a lot on the wiki.

But when you get a chance to see the Japanese raw or an official version, they are > fan translations in every sense.

What is this case, especially when there's a fan translation of hellsing that completely changes the meaning of the sentence.

And I don't know if there's an official version somewhere on the internet.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I see, I actually wasn't aware of that scanlations but you could say they are accurate to an extent.

It isn't so much that they're looked down on. It's more that the official version is generally more accurate. If you pit a scanlation against the official translation, the official version will generally be used over the scanlation, especially if they clearly differ in meaning.

But can I have the site for an official translation?

It definitely exists, but you'd need to find it. The translation we've all been using is the official one. I also don't think the deluxe edition has a unique translation. I got a single book of Hellsing years ago and I'm pretty sure it has the same translation as the deluxe.

 

[JackWhite-01]

Even then, in said fan translation, the Major still talks about how many millions of lives Alucard has left, thereby still providing a direct link to the soul regen. JackWhite, bro, you are literally contradicting your own sources.

The major did ask Walter how many lives he did have now. Now you can just interpret this as a way of asking how many souls he is absorbing at the time or you could interpret it like how Anderson suggested that his regeneration is based off of souls. However, both have been contradicted as a character statement when Alucard regenerated his head after being decapitated by the monster of God. And we know that you absorb souls via blood drinking which the novel states that Dracula drinks blood to sustain his strength and youth which comes out as immortality but does not source in the case of regeneration.

 

[Crabwhale]

I choose to interpret it as the plot and the author himself interprets it. That being, Alucard gets killed. Alucard has a 999+ lives cheat codes, gets resurrected and regen'd, and that's that. And as for the novel you keep mentioning, I like how you're failing to mention that for a vampire to truly die Helsing and the lads have to both stake their heart and cut their head off, while also stuffing the head's mouth with garlic, just to be sure.

Notice how none of the instances you've brought have met both criteria, at any point. This is getting very tedious.

 

[JackWhite-01]

It isn't so much that they're looked down on. It's more that the official version is generally more accurate. If you pit a scanlation against the official translation, the official version will generally be used over the scanlation, especially if they clearly differ in meaning.

I see

It definitely exists, but you'd need to find it. The translation we've all been using is the official one. I also don't think the deluxe edition has a unique translation. I got a single book of Hellsing years ago and I'm pretty sure it has the same translation as the deluxe.

where did you get that scan of the deluxe? Also, there were few things I need you to address

 

[JackWhite-01]

I choose to interpret it as the plot and the author himself interprets it. That being, Alucard gets killed. Alucard has a 999+ lives cheat codes, gets resurrected and regen'd, and that's that. And as for the novel you keep mentioning, I like how you're failing to mention that for a vampire to truly die Helsing and the lads have to both stake their heart and cut their head off, while also stuffing the head's mouth with garlic.

And that's where I mentioned before that the Hellsing organization perfected him which took 100 years and as stated by Integra that he cannot be killed like an ordinary vampire. Also, You still did not address the fact that how Dracula did not regenerate those lethal wounds with a soul and did not take the chance to regenerate when Abraham Van Helsing spared him.

Notice how none of the instances you've brought have met both criteria, at any point. This is getting very tedious.

and did you ever notice that you cherry-pick some of my words and disregard the rest?

 

[Robo432343]

and did you ever notice that you cherry-pick some of my words and disregard the rest?

coz the rest of what you said was irrelevant...

 

[Crabwhale]

And that's where I mentioned before that the Hellsing organization perfected him which took 100 years and as stated by Integra that he cannot be killed like an ordinary vampire. Also, You still did not address the fact that how Dracula did not regenerate those lethal wounds with a soul and

So wait, are you saying Alucard both can't be killed like a normal vampire, AND at the same time using his supposedly defunct vampire weaknesses to...back up your cause what. I'm just becoming confused now.

did not take the chance when Abraham Van Helsing spared him.

That's because Van Helsing somehow defeated Dracula so thoroughly that he lost all his spirit in his undertaking, and he in turn swore service to those of his family that had the will to dominate him. He was no longer a monster, he became a dog. And that's something he himself supports, which is also echoed by the story.

and did you ever notice that you cherry-pick some of my words and disregard the rest?

If I do not respond to one of your points in my messages, it is because I believe I have sufficiently argued against it previously, or that it simply is a conversational dead end that does not require further elaboration.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

And that's where I mentioned before that the Hellsing organization perfected him which took 100 years

It's a good thing we're talking about the current Alucard and not the one from the past.

You still did not address the fact that how Dracula did not regenerate those lethal wounds with a soul and did not take the chance when Abraham Van Helsing spared him.

He still has regeneration without the souls. He uses souls to "revive", which is accepted only when he has his heart destroyed.

This can be clearly seen in the fight against Walter. He no longer had any extra souls and could still regenerate.

And what happened in the Van Helsing fight doesn't matter, as you said, Alucard has enhancements. Also, during the entire flashback with Van Hellsing, Alucard was still alive, even after being staked. What happened in that fight was mainly a mental/moral defeat that left Alucard totally submissive to the Hellsing family.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It's a good thing we're talking about the current Alucard and not the one from the past.


He still has regeneration without the souls. He uses souls to "revive", which is accepted only when he has his heart And what happened in the Van Helsing fight doesn't matter, as you said, Alucard has enhancements. Also, during the entire flashback with Van Hellsing, Alucard was still alive, even after being staked. What happened in that fight was mainly a mental/moral defeat that left Alucard totally submissive to the Hellsing family.

We also don't know how strong Abraham was in the Hellsing verse. We know Integra, Yumie, Heinkel, Anderson and Walter are stronger than normal people can ever become, despite still being human. So what other abilities did Abraham and his friends have?

 

[Random-Helper323]

where did you get that scan of the deluxe?

Which scan do you mean? I have the manga.

Also, there were few things I need you to address

What do you need?

 

[JackWhite-01]

Seriously, incredible, besides answering nothing.

Continuously the OP is using a fan-made translation, badly translated, with translation errors.

Totally ignoring the official translated versions.

The most obvious part of this being the line of Alucard telling Walter to kill him multiple times. The translation used by the OP is wrong, but he totally ignores it.

You know you talk as if you have addressed that multiple times with me deliberately ignoring that. This is the first time you said and I acknowledged it. try not to go far off the line.

 

[JackWhite-01]

coz the rest of what you said was irrelevant...

for instances? I'd like to know sincerely.
and funny how the other guy who I asked didn't use this as his reasoning.

 

[LordGinSama]

Crabwhale and Random have said what I've already wanted to say but better ergo I'll side with their arguments against the OP.

 

[LordGinSama]

For the record, me and Crab have talked about if Braham's novel were 1&1 canon to Hellsing then the overall plot and story would have gone over much differently. Stroker's story includes the likes of other vampires whom would have been better for the foundation of the Millennium Vampire yet those characters are never mentioned once in the manga.



Hell even then non canon 02-3 series was more canon to the Hellsing manga than Stroker's is to Hellsing. The manga, ultimate and even the original anime deviate a lot from Stroker's novel's for Dracula. Alucard gets mutilated beyond what Dracula in the novel is capable of surving. Alucard can regenerate from what Dracula cannot, laughs at the weakness of normal Vampires and doesn't mention any of his abilities being attributed to the Hellsing experiments.



Said experiments were most likely just the weapons and intelligence Alucard was bestowed upon the Hellsing Organization.

 

[JackWhite-01]

So wait, are you saying Alucard both can't be killed like a normal vampire, AND at the same time using his supposedly defunct vampire weaknesses to...back up your cause what. I'm just becoming confused now.

As stated by Integra, no he cannot be killed like any other vampire. But according to the soul count theory, he regenerates lethal damages with souls. He is immune to it and is capable of regenerating against it but then it would serve as a contradiction to the soul count theory because he is now immune to it and other traditional vampiric weaknesses he was experimented on to be and that would mean that there is no means of dealing lethal attacks to Alucard but using holy weapons and that would imply that Alucard needs to be killed X number of times with a holy weapon destroying his heart where X is equivalent to the number of souls, but that sounds stupid as **** and preposterous. The soul count theory was contradicted when Dracula couldn't regenerate after being staked and spared by Abraham Van Helsing to which you responded below and I'll get to that.

That's because Van Helsing somehow defeated Dracula so thoroughly that he lost all his spirit in his undertaking, and he in turn swore service to those of his family that had the will to dominate him. He was no longer a monster, he became a dog. And that's something he himself supports, which is also echoed by the story.

Nothing like this was implied in the novel or in the Hellsing franchise. Dracula lost after the combined efforts of Seward, Harker, Morris, Holmwood, and Abraham Van Helsing with Quincey Morris dying, Jonathan Harker escorting Mina, and John Seward beside Abraham; Dracula lost and asks Van Helsing if he lost to which he responds with affirmation followed by being reprimanded by him and Abraham Van Helsing stakes his heart and took him in. There were no scenes where Dracula pledged loyalty voluntarily and the chances of it happening are 0 considering how much of a piece of shit fiend Dracula was like how he fed a baby to his 3 brides, raped Lucy, psychologically tortured Jonathan Harker, and forced his vampirism to on his wife. Do you think such a figure would have the dignity to pledge such servitude?

If I do not respond to one of your points in my messages, it is because I believe I have sufficiently argued against it previously, or that it simply is a conversational dead end that does not require further elaboration.

Alright I guess I have to do what I hate and that's parroting.

 

[JackWhite-01]

For the record, me and Crab have talked about if Braham's novel were 1&1 canon to Hellsing then the overall plot and story would have gone over much differently. Stroker's story includes the likes of other vampires whom would have been better for the foundation of the Millennium Vampire yet those characters are never mentioned once in the manga.

Just because you find certain vampires in the novel that didn't make it to the manga and would have been better candidates as the foundation of the Millenium doesn't kill its credibility of it being a canon prequel. As mentioned previously, the only deviation in the novel which was necessary for the creation of the manga was the fate of Dracula and the subsequent events. That one deviation does not change the entire nature of Dracula's immortality, weakness, powers and the overall nature of the character.

Hell even then non canon 02-3 series was more canon to the Hellsing manga than Stroker's is to Hellsing. The manga, ultimate and even the original anime deviate a lot from Stroker's novel's for Dracula. Alucard gets mutilated beyond what Dracula in the novel is capable of surving. Alucard can regenerate from what Dracula cannot, laughs at the weakness of normal Vampires and doesn't mention any of his abilities being attributed to the Hellsing experiments.

"Hell even then non canon 02-3 series was more canon to the Hellsing manga than Stroker's is to Hellsing." Are you talking about the Gonzo anime of Hellsing? if yes, are you good? And also from reading the rest of that, it just concludes that most who read this dispute haven't read all of my points. I mentioned far earlier that the Hellsing organization made Dracula immune to traditional vampiric weakness affirmed by Integra and Hirano confirmed that the Hellsing organization has modified his power(source is far above) meaning that they augmented his regeneration probably.
And you are inferring that the deviation is by a vast margin because of the comparison of the feats displayed in both the novel and manga is not a good idea when the manga itself addresses the upgrade in the character's power. As I mentioned above that the only deviation from the novel was the ending of Dracula's fate, that's all.

 

[JackWhite-01]

Said experiments were most likely just the weapons and intelligence Alucard was bestowed upon the Hellsing Organization.

No, Integra has confirmed that Alucard is 100 years of Hellsing's perfection and cannot be killed like any other normal vampire and Hirano also confirmed that his powers were modified by the organization. And how the hell are you bestowed intelligence? wtf? shouldn't intelligence be of his own?

ALSO, this is a huge testament right here that there is a probability that most people didn't actually read my points and argument and just disagreed on the spot without considering hearing from my side.