Altair upgrade

[TheLuffyPlayer]

I think we should upgrade Altair to 9-B, because in the game "Assassin's Creed Bloodlines" during the battle against Moloch "The Bull" (As you can see in minute 6:16 here). The Bull is able to break significantly trough stone. What from my view is a Wall Level feat. And Altair can take blows from him.

So Altair's durability should be upgraded to Wall Level and his attack potency too (Able to trade blows and defeat enemies capable of harming him).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Hmm interesting, would this scale to anyone else (I just want Wall Level Ezio)

 

[TheLuffyPlayer]

Hmm interesting, would this scale to anyone else (I just want Wall Level Ezio)

Hope it scales, i want Wall Level Edward Kenway =P

 

[TheLuffyPlayer]

Here i have an in-depth analysis and evidence that not only Altair but every single AC protagonist shoul be upgraded to 9-B, click here to see it, it's really intresting and has great arguments.

Thanks to KLOL506 to his analysis!

 

[Antvasima]

If anybody is interested, here is his post:

"Hey, Luffy, how are ya? I just wanted to tell you something about this matter since I can't talk with you guys on VSBattles or do anything there yet.

It's about Assassin's Creed and the durability feats of Altair, Ezio and the rest of the gang, as you said in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1215720

I agree with the thread, BTW. And Ezio doesn't scale to Altair's feats, BTW. That's 'cause he has his own Wall level feats.

Ezio can easily tank sledgehammer strikes to the face without issue and take full-powered axe slashes from brutes and almogavars with zero armor (proven in AC Revelations), both of which should be Wall level, since they're swung real fast by the enemies with just one arm. He also tanked cannonballs in AC Brotherhood, more specifically, Sequence 9- Memory: Pax Romana, just after Cesare leaves, Ezio is struck by a volley of cannonballs and was only knocked unconscious (here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVhj352bXQY#t=00m43s ). Ezio can also tank his own bombs, AFAIK, and he can jump from heights high enough to grant him at least Street level+ durability if not higher. The extra bulk of Ezio's equipment gives him more mass and the result would get bumped up to Wall level anyway and the armor doesn't stave off fall damage in any way, so remove the armor or not, fall damage always takes the same amount of health (But the feats above already explain why he should be Wall level). In the beginning in Revelations, he also falls from a significant height as seen here, and he clearly shatters the wooden platform and walks like nothing happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Vo3hYt_is#t=2m40s

Now, comes his physical strength. He can effortlessly break bone and snap grown men's necks, and the latter part is Wall Level as far as VSBattles and this wiki dictates. Not only that, he can easily defeat enemies in plated armor without the metal cestus and deal severe damage to them as if the armor wasn't even there, something not even the strongest athletes have done in real life without weapons, and mind you, their armors are strong enough to take sledgehammer blows from Ezio himself. Ezio is also strong enough to swing around a sledgehammer multiple times in quick succession like it was essentially massless with just one arm (Like, what the **** is even going on here!? XD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ35PQ8AAUg ). And of course, there are the janissaries, Shahkulu and Tarik Barleti, all of whom have much tougher armor than all the other guards, and Ezio can still draw blood from them and even wittle them down to dead bodies (Ezio killed Tarik in a fist fight instead of an aerial assassination in the novel, with Tarik having 3 times the health of a janissary, and Ezio noted Shahkulu's armor to be too thick for bullets, and even when Ezio performed an air assassination on him, Shahkulu just got up, started to strangle Ezio and threw him aside. Then you can proceed to kill Shahkulu unarmed, and he then dies, just like that.). Then again, the guy (Ezio) can kill heavily-armored guards with a broom and swing sledgehammers as fast as a sword, so who am I to judge?

Mind you, Altair can do the same exact feats and has the same exact durability feats as seen when he escaped Masyaf with his son Darim. A couple of rogue Assassins were equipped with warhammers of the sort. Not only that, he could also pierce and cut through chain-maille in Assassin's Creed 1 and in Bloodlines, where he kills Armand Bouchart. He could also pick apart at armored enemies with chain-maille with his fists too (it's lengthy because they parry the punches with their hands, but yeah, once you get past them, it's a matter of button mashing before the enemy's down and out for the count). And of course, there's the Moloch feat as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrgqec2sNJ8#t=06m16s

Oh, I forgot. They can both draw blood from horses with their hits (Ezio can do it regardless of whether he has the metal cestus or not). And Ezio was also seen to slice men in half easily with his sword in the Assassin's Creed: Reflections comic.

Now, onto Edward Kenway.

He literally has most of the same feats as his son and grandson. I believe he was supposed to be upgraded via this thread which mentions him tanking swivel cannon shots which bypass the Mayan Armor even (yes, you can survive them even with the base outfit which is considerably weaker) but it never went anywhere and was later shut down by Ant: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1165123

Not only that, Edward has survived massive explosions consisting of massive gunpowder barrels you see on ships, and not only that, he can easily tank the bite of a jaguar and nonchalantly kill it, as if nothing happened to his arm, and the gauntlet does nothing to stop the jaguar from biting into it. Edward can also tank grenade explosions at point-blank range without issue, just like Connor and Haytham.

Striking Strength wise, Edward can also beat up bull sharks so hard they swim away in fear (Just like Batman beat up a great white in Arkham City). Edward Kenway can also send guards flying several meters with a single kick and shatter wooden furniture and barrels with his blows, just like Haytham and Connor. Edward even kicked down a large fortress door in his search for Laureano Torres. Also, shouldn't Edward receive Class 1 lifting strength for overpowering an American crocodile (Males are usually this heavy: 400-500 kilograms)?

And Connor's durability should have this description: Tanked cannonballs during the Battle of Bunker Hill. Survived a shed full of gunpowder exploding beneath his feat. Because during that mission, I waited for the cannonballs to hit me, and they did, they took out a large portion of my health, but still more than half of it remaining. And the gunpowder shed is just that, him tanking a gunpowder shed exploding (although it reduces your health to almost zero). It happens when you blow up the cache reserves of the forts you conquer for the Patriots.

Now, in the case of Haytham, Connor and Edward (due to sharing the same game engine and movesets), all of them can effortlessly snap necks and break backs in normal gameplay. They even tore apart metal locks with a single punch (you know, when you try to save prisoners from pillories, here's the proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjYUC7-fvRs ), something even the Barrett M82 has a tough time doing, and it can pierce walls. Not only that, Edward Kenway has also at times smashed apart chest locks when you dig up buried treasure.

And of course, how could I forget? They can all trade blows with and easily kill those who can harm them in a fist fight.

All in all, all the protagonists should be upgraded to Wall level.

EDIT: It seems I forgot a few other feats of Ezio. He also lifted a horse carriage with a Flying Machine inside of it all by himself, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECho9NXQYdk#t=00m43s

Combined with the fact that Ezio can swing around sledgehammers with just a single hand, he should also get "At least Peak Human" lifting strength. Because I have no idea how strong you'd have to be to treat a sledgehammer like a toy.

EDIT 2: Oh wait. Armors and the armor upgrades in AC1, AC2, AC Brotherhood and Revelations and the later games also do nothing to reduce the amount of fall damage or any kind of damage anyway (it's just there to prolong your suffering in the games ) as we can see the guards still being visibly strong enough to draw blood from Ezio (with the latter equipped with his strongest armors) and vice versa. The same is true for all the games in the series.

EDIT 3 (the final one, hopefully): Does it seem bothering that every single protagonist in Assassin's Creed can effortlessly climb hundreds of meters without any adverse effects to their health and jump several meters from one ledge to another consistently without any issue? (Video game logic, I assume) This feat should also be in their profiles, which will affect their lifting strength further. Stamina remains unchanged, although Ezio's stamina description is not yet completed. It should have the following, I believe: "During the Siege of Monteriggioni, he survived getting shot at multiple points of his body and falling from a significant height at the same time and still managed to later on fight and blitz several armed guards without issue, later on freerunning throughout the Auditore crypt, and in the ensuing conflict, not once did he suffer from exhaustion. Even though his arm was numbed out due to the antics of his carriage fight with Leandros, he was still capable of non-chalantly killing off all his men with ease. Even in old age, he managed to overpower several heavily armed Chinese men with only a fireplace poker and managed to do immensely stressful acrobatic maneuvers"."

 

[Hellbeast1]

Also there's this: [1]

 

[Antvasima]

It is better to copy-paste, especially when links are included.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I did (Not sure why it picked up the image)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Gelan06]

agree

 

[Hellbeast1]

Also does Odyssey have any good feats (We do need something to scale after all)

 

[KLOL506]

WHEW! Finally, I can now freely comment.


Either way, I agree with this, and I'll slowly post the feats here.

 

[KLOL506]

These are the AC Syndicate feats. Striking Stregth

Both Jacob and Evie can casually break bones, twist them at severe angles effortlessly and crush necks and spines with a single arm or with a single stomp, even (which is by no doubt a Wall level feat).

Proof:

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h3-9Pi59lA

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEMEJDmPhvs

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEMEJDmPhvs

4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FhzklsQtZY

And there are many more videos of such feats.

They can also detach trains by punching their linkages 4-5 times, a feat that is blatantly impossible to perform even for the strongest punchers with brass knuckles equipped. (You can do it to any train after you enter London for the first time. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PB7EKQqyJA)


Lifting Strength: Both can casually lift, flip and slam heavyweight characters with ease as seen in the videos. Also the feats above. They can also wield the 9-kilo Wallop Enhancer with a single hand.

Durability:

Now this one's fun.




This one's essentially similar to the Kenways tanking explosions. This would upgrade both Jacob and Evie to a solid Wall level+ since they can tank multiple crates of dynamites and nitroglycerin exploding right under their feet. This would also mean that they can fight against those who can harm them. And the only time the Frye twins ever had difficulty against a Shroud-amped Starrick was when they tried to wrestle against him, otherwise, Starrick was getting pwned in terms of striking strength, with Regenerationn being his only saving grace.

That's the first one.

 

[KLOL506]

It is better to copy-paste, especially when links are included.

I wouldn't say the links would be needed, really. The feats are in the game itself.

 

[KLOL506]

Now, the feats from Origins and Odyssey.

I got some AC Odyssey and Origins feats you'd like to hear.

First of all, the Misthios has the same feats as Bayek due to having the same game engine from Origins, but first, I have to mention Bayek and Aya's feats first.


Both Aya and Bayek can do the same feats, so here they are:


Strength-

1. Being able to easily draw blood from and kill big game like lions (here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o9FB6gxFOU), hyenas, leopards, gigantic crocodiles, elephants and hippopotamuses in unarmed combat and being potentially capable of casually one-shotting several of them sans elephants with a single Overpowered Attack even in Nightmare Difficulty if you're at their level.

2. Capable of sending three armored camels with riders on them a good distance (8 meters, in fact, you can check it for yourself) with a single uppercut with or without upgrades

3. Being able to smash through stone and thick wooden logs (like smashing through walls and statues) with just fists

4. Can easily one-shot donkeys

5. Can swing around massive blunted weapons on horseback without issue and even throw them as fast as arrow shots.

6. Can throw all kinds of weapons like they were throwing knives

7. Can casually swat away attacks from Brutes in heavy armor with just his hands (Yes, you can do that if you time it right)

8. Can one-shot multiple enemies with thick shields with a single overpowered attack

9. Aya killed a hippo with just a rock after hitting it five to six times while underwater, wounded and tied up in the Assassin's Creed Origins comic in Rome

10. If you wish to, there is a mission with Tahira where you save a big-ass crocodile by destroying its cage. With fists, you can destroy that cage with just a few hits. Wow.

11. Jumping several meters from one ledge to another both upwards and sideways (like all the games)

12. Both of them can fight with and effortlessly kill those who can harm them.

Lifting Strength-

I believe they should both be Class 1, since Aya scales to Bayek, who pushed back and defeated the Hoplite, who casually overpowered and fodderized lions in unarmed combat here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jwUAcsFhCQ

Not only that, both can lift gigantic soldiers in heavy armor without much issue and run around in top speed, even being capable of throwing them aside.

Speed-

Superhuman running speed at the very least, since both Bayek and Aya can outrun multiple animals running after them (like lions). Combat speeds and reactions would likely reach Subsonic, since Aya casually swatted aside an arrow from an enemy after it was shot, at point-blank range. Bayek also dodged Khaliset's arrows and can also dodge ballista shots, which are arguably faster. The husband-and-wife duo can also blitz multiple enemies before they can react. The Elite Ranger skill slows down time for both of them while in mid-air, and even ballista shots appear to be slowed down, so they should be At least Subsonic, likely higher with Elite Ranger skill.

Stamina-

Both Bayek and Aya can run across Egypt through the hot deserts and still keep going without food or water should one wish to just run from Alexandria to Siwa on foot.

Durability:

1. Bayek took blows from Hypatos, who is the first and weakest boss you have to fight in the game. Hypatos with a single hit of his mace, collapsed a floor beneath them.

2. Bayek can easily tank paw swipes from lions and maulings from them, leopards, crocodiles (regardless of size) and hippoes. He can also tank attacks from elephants and even tackles (albeit barely). He also tanked blows from a gladiator named the Hammer, who was noted in the descriptions to wield a hammer with the concussive power of a stone block. Aya should also scale as she took hits from the Guardian, who effortlessly smashed marble pillars with his hammer, and from an Artifact-amped Lucius Septimius, the final boss, who could easily create massive craters in the ground by pulverizing it with his mace, regardless of difficulty levels and equipment, and these are the best feats in the game in terms of durability.

3. Both can survive falls from over 25 meters.


And in Curse of the Pharaohs, Bayek becomes even stronger. Now he can fight against supernatural zombies and gigantic scorpions

And that's all the best feats for Origins.

The Misthios of Odyssey should scale to all these feats due to being able to perform them as well, minus the hippoes, leopards, hyenas and crocodiles, and due to sharing the same game engine. The Misthios has her (as Kassandra is the canon choice according to the Odyssey novel) own feats:

1. Surviving a fall from a cliff as a child

2. Being able to kick enemies tens of meters away, Spartan style

3. Being able to kill bull sharks underwater

4. Can kill gigantic bears

5. Can fight against gigantic deers

6. Can also kick them hard (See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV_oDlJ5_es )

Sorry if this post is too long. I'm still new to writing paragraphs. If someone were to show me how to shorten them, I'd be grateful.

 

[KLOL506]

And the final durability feat for Connor that is on par with the infamous gunpowder shed exploding beneath him and surpasses even the cannonball feats of Bunker Hill:




Edward and Haytham have survived similar feats, so they should scale from Connor, also Haytham can survive the exact same thing in the game as you play with him, and he also easily stomped Connor while injured.
All in all, I believe Connor and Edward should have their durability upgraded to Wall level+.

Also, Connor busted down a wooden wall (sorry, it's a door with a wooden plank acting as a lock, and Connor destroys the entire thing) by tackling his dad Haytham into it without going at full speed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh6eKWhTSRA

 

[TheLuffyPlayer]

KLOL506...


You are awesome!

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody write a TLDR summary of what needs to be done here?

 

[Hellbeast1]

Everyone upgraded to Wall with Haytham, Edward and Connor with possibly Wall+ Dura

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That does not seem very controversial, but to get a + sign, a calculation is needed which places a character in the upper half of a certain tier.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Ah I see so just Wall then?

Also he proposes giving them Subsonic Speed (Which I think they all have)

 

[Antvasima]

Can you summarise the reasons for the ratings?

 

[Hellbeast1]

Basically everyone can one hand big axes and mauls, overpower large animals such as Crocodiles (Edward/Bayek), Bears (Ezio) and draw blood from horses (Ezio, Altair) they are also able to survive fall of hundreds of feet.

Getting more specific Edward, Haytham and Connor srvive large gunpowder explosives without much injury as well as cannonballs (Which Ezio also does). Altair overpowers a guy who could smash stone and pretty much all the protags do this.

For speed Subsonic is for blitzing fools and the Misithos and Bayek (I think) blocking arrows with Superhuman.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You need to clean up the sentence structures to make what you want to say easier to understand, but the attack potency and durability upgrades seem fine at least.

 

[KLOL506]

Okay. You need to clean up the sentence structures to make what you want to say easier to understand, but the attack potency and durability upgrades seem fine at least.

Sure thing. I'll take that into note next time.

Also, isn't blowing up a shed like the ones in AC3 generally Wall level+ to Small Building level? That's what you guys calc'd it at.

Do note that the gunpowder storage cache shed is also made of stone and other materials, and that thing just completely disappears upon explosion.

 

[KLOL506]

KLOL506...


You are awesome!

THANKS! ^v^

 

[Antvasima]

I was referring to Hellbeast1.

If there is a calculation that we can use, you can link to it here.

 

[KLOL506]

Basically everyone can one hand big axes and mauls, overpower large animals such as Crocodiles (Edward/Bayek), Bears (Ezio) and draw blood from horses (Ezio, Altair) they are also able to survive fall of hundreds of feet.
Getting more specific Edward, Haytham and Connor srvive large gunpowder explosives without much injury as well as cannonballs (Which Ezio also does). Altair overpowers a guy who could smash stone and pretty much all the protags do this.

For speed Subsonic is for blitzing fools and the Misithos and Bayek (I think) blocking arrows with Superhuman.

You also forgot being able to effortlessly defeat enemies in thick armor (Ezio and Altair beating up opponents in chain-maille plated armor and Ezio stomping on Shahkulu and Tarik in a fist-fight) and being able to fight against those who can harm them. And that Connor, Haytham and Edward can all smash through metal locks without any issue.

Also, it's Connor and Shay Cormac for the bears part.

 

[KLOL506]

I was referring to Hellbeast1.
If there is a calculation that we can use, you can link to it here.

Oh, I see, my bad, LOL. Hmmmm, gonna have to look for it, but it's buried too deep, sadly.

Either way, I also believe a calc should be made.

Anyway, I found about the explosions being of this level from this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/450123

 

[KLOL506]

In case you can't get the lock breaking feat and have problems watching the video, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oCekebEjPc


WOW. THAT'S...EXTREMELY CASUAL.

Here's Connor doing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ustvsfbpy6I

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It is probably best to start with upgrading the characters to 9-B until we get a proper calculation though.

 

[KLOL506]

Okay. It is probably best to start with upgrading the characters to 9-B until we get a proper calculation though.

'Kay.

Jack The Ripper from Assassin's Creed Syndicate needs to be upgraded to Wall level too (for almost effortlessly defeating Jacob Frye, who can tank multiple crates of dynamite and nitroglycerin exploding under his feet).

 

[KLOL506]

Okay. It is probably best to start with upgrading the characters to 9-B until we get a proper calculation though.

For starters, I'll just do Connor, just to be safe.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but the characters that scale to him need to be upgraded as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, are you experienced enough to edit the profiles properly?

 

[KLOL506]

Okay, but the characters that scale to him need to be upgraded as well.

Okay, but a lot of their profiles need to be made as well. Since I have no idea how to make one, I'll wait for the proper experts to make them.

But don't worry. Most of the protagonists scale from each other due to the same game engine, and they even have their own impressive feats (as I mentioned in the posts above). Damn, I've never found a verse this consistent in its feats.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, are you experienced enough to edit the profiles properly?

Connor should be an easy profile to update. And I guess the other profiles shouldn't be that hard either, considering that they're not very long and are relatively easy to differentiate.

 

[KLOL506]

Ezio, Altair and Bayek have all been updated. I will update Edward's profile later, as I have some work to do.

Cheers! ^_^

 

[KLOL506]

Edward and Jack have also been finally upgraded, thus concluding this particular thread.