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Alphamon vs. Dragonoid (Bakugan)
- Thread starter Burning_Full_Fingers
- Start date
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Cal, she upon being completely destroyed returned to Vestroia and revived as a spirit. That would be Low-Godly regen by itself from what I know and Low Godly Regen is either reviving as long as your consciousness still exists or if you regenerate from other realms, which Wavern did. Drago didnt separate his consciouness as he only gave himself a physical form to use to fight with when he was the core. He basically just split a part of himself, not his whole being. Otherwise he'd have no connection to the core at all. But we'll need Dragontime to come explain this as he first brought this up so he can explain it better than me.
DaFritzi
Yes as when Gorem tried activating one of his abiltiies it was instantly given to Clayf. As in, Gorem's ability didnt even activate as the instant Julie tried to, Clayf had it in his posesssion. But like I said before, in a bakugan brawl, abilties activating for Bakugan calcualate their G-power so they can have a greater amount than the opponent and beat them due to having a higher g-power. Clayf in a bakugan brawl would only be able to steal G-power because thats what a Bakugan Brawl is based on. If he were to ever fight outside of a brawl, then the ability itself would apply to him since there's no G-power in that scenerio and if the whole ability is applied to him instead of the opponent, what else would be applied except for the ability?
DaFritzi
Yes as when Gorem tried activating one of his abiltiies it was instantly given to Clayf. As in, Gorem's ability didnt even activate as the instant Julie tried to, Clayf had it in his posesssion. But like I said before, in a bakugan brawl, abilties activating for Bakugan calcualate their G-power so they can have a greater amount than the opponent and beat them due to having a higher g-power. Clayf in a bakugan brawl would only be able to steal G-power because thats what a Bakugan Brawl is based on. If he were to ever fight outside of a brawl, then the ability itself would apply to him since there's no G-power in that scenerio and if the whole ability is applied to him instead of the opponent, what else would be applied except for the ability?
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Kukui you didn't tell me all that.. Is that what Clayf did? He just took G-Power that is stealing Stat buffs.
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I thought I did. My bad if I didnt.
But if he only stole G-power then why didnt Gorems ability activate anyway? It would have activated regardless of it not having any power applying to him. But in this case his ability didnt activate at all, it activated for Clayf. And we decided that if ever used outside of a brawl, it wouldnt apply power or stats it would apply the whole ability.
But if he only stole G-power then why didnt Gorems ability activate anyway? It would have activated regardless of it not having any power applying to him. But in this case his ability didnt activate at all, it activated for Clayf. And we decided that if ever used outside of a brawl, it wouldnt apply power or stats it would apply the whole ability.
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As the 6 Legendary Soldiers had to separate a part of Drago to save New Vestroia. The Perfect Core is quite literally Drago itself. When Spectra captured Drago, this was exhibited best. The power of the Perfect Core abilities was completely disintegrating Drago. If it had been a completely separated version of Drago it would be Perfect Dragonoid and then that would make the entire Bakuverse 2-C. His true consciousness and physical form still exist in the Perfect Core.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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Im rewatching the episode now and this is what the Bakupod computer says:
"Atomic Brave has intercepted all power from ability card".
That should make things a bit easier. In brawls this is possible because its applying G-force. But if ever used outside of a brawl, with no G-force it all, then what power is being taken from the ability? There wouldnt be any power at all. So the only thing stolen and applied is the whole ability.
"Atomic Brave has intercepted all power from ability card".
That should make things a bit easier. In brawls this is possible because its applying G-force. But if ever used outside of a brawl, with no G-force it all, then what power is being taken from the ability? There wouldnt be any power at all. So the only thing stolen and applied is the whole ability.
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This might have looked that way because all cards used against clayf where plain stat up cards.
The computer was referring to what clayf said before meaning added g-power via stat amping.
"Atomic brave has intercepted all power increase coming from that ability card."
At least thats how I see it.
The computer was referring to what clayf said before meaning added g-power via stat amping.
"Atomic brave has intercepted all power increase coming from that ability card."
At least thats how I see it.
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@Dafritzi
What do you mean exactly?
@Reppuzan
Thats my point. Bakugan Mechanics don't have a place in vs fights at all so instead of G-power the entire ability itself should be taken. Also, Ability Cards are the Bakugan's natural abilities as they consistently shown to activate them without the need of a brawler. If this is what you meant by outside sources?
What do you mean exactly?
@Reppuzan
Thats my point. Bakugan Mechanics don't have a place in vs fights at all so instead of G-power the entire ability itself should be taken. Also, Ability Cards are the Bakugan's natural abilities as they consistently shown to activate them without the need of a brawler. If this is what you meant by outside sources?
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Yeah they do. We see this is literally every season of Bakugan. Ability Cards are only used when a Bakugan's brawler fights with them in brawls.
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@Kukui
As I stated before, it also matters on whether or not its in-character for Drago to use these abilities. Has Drago used Atomic Brave against an opponent? Even if he has it, it doesn't matter if he doesn't pull it out as his first move before getting destroyed by an infinite number of attacks.
As I stated before, it also matters on whether or not its in-character for Drago to use these abilities. Has Drago used Atomic Brave against an opponent? Even if he has it, it doesn't matter if he doesn't pull it out as his first move before getting destroyed by an infinite number of attacks.
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G-power is measuring the attack power of the bakugan only and no abilities.
Explaining what i meant: "Atomic brave has intercepted all power increase coming from that ability card."
This is my interpretation of what the computer said, taking into consideration what clayf said excatly before that. Also all cards used in the battle are stat amp cards.
Explaining what i meant: "Atomic brave has intercepted all power increase coming from that ability card."
This is my interpretation of what the computer said, taking into consideration what clayf said excatly before that. Also all cards used in the battle are stat amp cards.
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That depends. Drago has shown to be willing to do anything he needs to do in order to beat his enemy, such as even stooping to use Mechanical Bakugan and Battle Gear to aid him, something he absolutely loathes as it disgraces the pride of living Bakugan. But as for using all abiltiies, reason being is that Dan and Drago arent one to use such crazy abilties as they never wanted to have ultimate power or anything of the sort, just peace and stability for the Bakugan. Not to mention if they were to use these abilties there would literally be no brawler to ever be a threat to them at all and its CIS/PIS that would prevent them from using them just so, well, they can brawl. Or else they'd stomp every single opponent they come across instantly.
But I do agree that Drago will need to use this ability first in order to have much of a chance.
But I do agree that Drago will need to use this ability first in order to have much of a chance.
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@Kukui. I was shopping for snacks, so I couldn't reply in time but...
No. That's not Low Godly regen. Not at all. Otherwise, all Force Ghosts or spirits in Dragon Ball would have it. Or any ghost in general. Kirby would have Low Godly regen. Don't you think I of all people would've wanked that by now?
On paragraph 2. I feel like no one knows what a power source is, like, at all.
No. That's not Low Godly regen. Not at all. Otherwise, all Force Ghosts or spirits in Dragon Ball would have it. Or any ghost in general. Kirby would have Low Godly regen. Don't you think I of all people would've wanked that by now?
On paragraph 2. I feel like no one knows what a power source is, like, at all.
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The problem with this is that all Bakugan abilities increase/decrease and therefore calculate g-power, no matter the ability. Even hax ones like Time, Space, Fate and Dimension creation do and they are definitely not just stat amps. They are pure haxes.
This would be assuming that Atomic Brave only applies to statstics amping abiltiies and not haxes like the ones mentioned above, which is not only speculation, it also doenst make sense. Those haxes are bakugan abilities used by Bakugan so Atomic Brave would apply to them all. We can't just assume the opposite since Clayf has only gotten 2 appearances in the entire series.
In a brawl, of course the G-power those abilties gives their Bakugan would be applied to Clayf. But outside a brawl, how would that work without G-power. Stuff like Time and Spatial Manipulation doesnt give you power, its pure hax. So if it was stolen, what would apply to Clayf? Not power, but the only logical result would be the whole ability. And we are implied this when Gorem's abiltiies werent activating at all but only for Clayf. If they only stole pure power or stat amping, it wouldnt have stopped Gorem from using his abilties or they wouldnt be activating for Clayf instead.
@Cal Np. I went shopping earlier too xD
As far as Kirby goes you'll need to explain it. But for DB, how would that be the same thing? Ghosts in dragon ball dont revive when going into places like the afterlife, they just pass on. Wavern in this case literally just went to another universe and become a ghost, which is one of the requirements for Low-Godly Regen.
This would be assuming that Atomic Brave only applies to statstics amping abiltiies and not haxes like the ones mentioned above, which is not only speculation, it also doenst make sense. Those haxes are bakugan abilities used by Bakugan so Atomic Brave would apply to them all. We can't just assume the opposite since Clayf has only gotten 2 appearances in the entire series.
In a brawl, of course the G-power those abilties gives their Bakugan would be applied to Clayf. But outside a brawl, how would that work without G-power. Stuff like Time and Spatial Manipulation doesnt give you power, its pure hax. So if it was stolen, what would apply to Clayf? Not power, but the only logical result would be the whole ability. And we are implied this when Gorem's abiltiies werent activating at all but only for Clayf. If they only stole pure power or stat amping, it wouldnt have stopped Gorem from using his abilties or they wouldnt be activating for Clayf instead.
@Cal Np. I went shopping earlier too xD
As far as Kirby goes you'll need to explain it. But for DB, how would that be the same thing? Ghosts in dragon ball dont revive when going into places like the afterlife, they just pass on. Wavern in this case literally just went to another universe and become a ghost, which is one of the requirements for Low-Godly Regen.
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Kirby just becomes a ghost after he dies.
Grandpa Goha would beg to differ.
I'll say this one more time. If she became a ghost, then she's not Low Godly. This is my final say on the matter.
Grandpa Goha would beg to differ.
I'll say this one more time. If she became a ghost, then she's not Low Godly. This is my final say on the matter.
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Bakugan is even more complicated than I thought, given that Kukui just said that all abilities taken from bakugan battles are pretty much stat amping with flavor text. Translating such abilities to actual hax is equally problematic as trying to translate yugioh cards into hax. Especially those only used during bakugan battles, those that never showed how they would work in a real battle.
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Low-Godly: Able to regenerate as long as your disembodied consciousness exists/regenerate from other realms.
All those 2 did was become a ghost so they dont get Low-Godly Regen. But what Wavern did was different, she returned to a different universe to become a ghost, aka went into another realm and revived after Drago eliminated her to nothing. That would be Low-Godly Regen from what this definition of it says.
@DaFritzi
Basically. Some are only pure stat amping, like Gorems abilties while others are literal haxes with stat amping as an additional package. But the difference between Bakugan and Yugioh is that Bakugan abilties have been used by the Bakugan outside of brawls and on their own before. That would apply to every Bakugan. Yugioh on the other hand, the card effects are pure gameplay and the real versions of the monsters have no feats except or selected ones like the God cards. Even Exodia doesnt have its automatic win hax in real form.
All those 2 did was become a ghost so they dont get Low-Godly Regen. But what Wavern did was different, she returned to a different universe to become a ghost, aka went into another realm and revived after Drago eliminated her to nothing. That would be Low-Godly Regen from what this definition of it says.
@DaFritzi
Basically. Some are only pure stat amping, like Gorems abilties while others are literal haxes with stat amping as an additional package. But the difference between Bakugan and Yugioh is that Bakugan abilties have been used by the Bakugan outside of brawls and on their own before. That would apply to every Bakugan. Yugioh on the other hand, the card effects are pure gameplay and the real versions of the monsters have no feats except or selected ones like the God cards. Even Exodia doesnt have its automatic win hax in real form.
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You're heavily misinterpreting said definition. She is dead. She did not come back to life. Her consciousness is a ghost. She didn't regenerate. End of story.
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Im sorry cal but your still sort of confusing me.
If she died then why would she return to Vestroia, the living home of all the Bakugan? She would have gone to the Doom dimension , the afterlife for the Bakugan just like how someone who dies in DB would go to Otherworld. She would have ended up just like Naga did, who didnt revive in Vestroia at all.
Not to mention Wavern is shown to be able to roam through Vestroia as a Spirit, confirming she does live but only in the form of a Spirit.
If she died then why would she return to Vestroia, the living home of all the Bakugan? She would have gone to the Doom dimension , the afterlife for the Bakugan just like how someone who dies in DB would go to Otherworld. She would have ended up just like Naga did, who didnt revive in Vestroia at all.
Not to mention Wavern is shown to be able to roam through Vestroia as a Spirit, confirming she does live but only in the form of a Spirit.
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Why are we debating Wavern's regen here? (I don't think she has any)
We know that Drago has solid Low-Godly + type 8 immortality, so what's the point of this discussion?
No derailment intended.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? (VERY FAMOUS QUOTE)
We know that Drago has solid Low-Godly + type 8 immortality, so what's the point of this discussion?
No derailment intended.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? (VERY FAMOUS QUOTE)
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Because she's a ghost. Nothing more, nothing less. At absolute best, she has type 7 immortality.
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A ghost who revived in an entirely different dimension from where she was destroyed, a requirement for Low-Godly. If she didnt have it, she would have just revived as a ghost in the human universe, gone to the Doom Dimension, or ended up like Naga. If any of these things happened to her I would accept her not having it. But it didnt, so I don't know why it isnt Low-Godly.
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@Dragontime. Because a reasoning was used that Drago should have his immortality+regen logically if Wavern can do it, when Drago shoudn't have that at all, because he gave that up, and only had access to the power of it. Zekrom and Reshiram were both part of Kyruem, and share some of its powers. Doesn't mean that if they die, they go back to it. Heck, B2W2 does fusion between them in a different way.
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@Kukui Let me give you the perfect perspective here. Algol from Soulcalibur can have his body utterly destroyed and he then returns to Astal Chaos. He then wills himself another body from nothing but his consciousness. That is Low-Godly Regen. Wavern never willed herself another body. She just floated around as a spirit. She never again got another dragon body.
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Apologies in advance.
Because she's DEAD. That's why. She's a spirit! Hey! Let's give the Flashes Low Godly regen because he returns to the Speed Force if he dies!
Because she's DEAD. That's why. She's a spirit! Hey! Let's give the Flashes Low Godly regen because he returns to the Speed Force if he dies!
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Wavern's point was brought up later in an effort to bump the regen up to Mid-Godly, which we disagreed upon.
He never gave it up though. It is a power source for his temporary physical body, which was always heavily implied to be temporary. He could return to the Perfect Core at will if he needed to. He only ever taps into the full potential of the Perfect Core in his temporary physical form when he was bloodlusted/ under Spectra's control.
He never gave it up though. It is a power source for his temporary physical body, which was always heavily implied to be temporary. He could return to the Perfect Core at will if he needed to. He only ever taps into the full potential of the Perfect Core in his temporary physical form when he was bloodlusted/ under Spectra's control.
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Apologies for asking for proof, because that's one of Dragon's pet peeves. Can you message me on my wall for a paraphrasing (at least) of the situation of that?
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@Kukui thats not exactly what I meant. I am fine with all abilities also used outside of bakugan battles. It are those abilities that only appear in bakugan battles that are problematic, because you never see how they would work in a real battle. Trying to translate the bakugan game itself, that heavily relies on rules, to a real fight is complicated if even possible.
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@Dragon ahh I see. That makes sense now. But even then, I remember Wavern's Spirit being a part of the Perfect Core. Drago literally called it "The Light of the Perfect Core" and Wavern's Spirit appeared from that. That proves or implies her entire Soul Form is tethered to the core itself despite not being the whole core. What would we make of this?
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Fine, I'll put up a desc. of the events on your wall. But in the meantime, could you please check over the original revision thread? I think a lot of points were raised there.The real cal howard said:
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Will do. I was gonna say that I was gonna do that first, but I would've looked like an idiot. In fact, disregard my request. No need to burden yourself for that.
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If you want any additional info, just leave a message on my wall and I'll provide any further information.
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@Cal my apologies out to you btw incase i EVER sounded disrespectful. Was not intending to do that at all.
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Dammit Kukui, stop making me feel guilty about getting riled up by being such a good guy! XD
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I understand your point here but I also don't see what the problem would be. If some Bakugan are able to show the abilties they used in brawls outside of it, then it would mean the same for ALL Bakugan and their powers.
For example- Take the Haos Ability, Haos Freeze. It instantly stops time and nullifies all the opponents abiltiies (well as long as their frozen anyway). It also allows you to summon an ally to help you. In a real battle, that would just be Time Stopping + Hax/Power Nullification and Summoning all in one package. And unlike games like Yugioh, Bakugan is much more simple. For one, in a brawl you can only use an ability once per round. Thats game mechanics so in a real fight they can spam it as much as they want. Second, when they use abilties of any kind the apporpriate stat manipulating gets calculated and applied. So in a real battle, no power gets applied unless it specifically comes with stat increasing. If its just hax like spatial manipulation, then its just spatial manipulation.
For example- Take the Haos Ability, Haos Freeze. It instantly stops time and nullifies all the opponents abiltiies (well as long as their frozen anyway). It also allows you to summon an ally to help you. In a real battle, that would just be Time Stopping + Hax/Power Nullification and Summoning all in one package. And unlike games like Yugioh, Bakugan is much more simple. For one, in a brawl you can only use an ability once per round. Thats game mechanics so in a real fight they can spam it as much as they want. Second, when they use abilties of any kind the apporpriate stat manipulating gets calculated and applied. So in a real battle, no power gets applied unless it specifically comes with stat increasing. If its just hax like spatial manipulation, then its just spatial manipulation.
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Lmao but I am sorry for realz xD. I look up to debaters like you, Dragon, etc. so whenever I defend a point, it gets heated and then dials down I have to apologize for real. Its not usually in my nature do that alot.The real cal howard said:
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See, when you have admins and debaters like these, who needs bad blood and hard feelings?The real cal howard said:
Also now the question arises in my head, how are we going to celebrate Ant hitting 100k edits?
No derailment intended.
