Allowing Rance on the wiki.

[Ayewale]

Quoting you.


Fandom only seems to act when it is pushed to do so. Even very large wikis can probably avoid action- in fact, several very large wikis are still only netting very small amounts of visits and user edits. I know because I used to run one.

We have specifically given rules that state that, no, even if you can avoid the ****, if the intent of the game is ****, then it isn't acceptable. I also don't understand why this is being so hotly debated.

Though fandom policy is inconsistent, it's also the only policy we're basing our rules off and we should still abide by it. Even if it acts only when pushed, that means we should delete verses only when they're deemed appropriate. If fandom hasn't deleted a wiki after seventeen years, the only reasonable assumption is that it's allowed until proven otherwise.

Useful Information...

The VSBW guidelines aren't supposed to be any harsher than fandom's, though. Assuming you (and everyone else) aren't arguing for the wiki being needlessly puritan, we shouldn't bar any verse from being included that fandom has given the okay to.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright, should discussion about this topic be paused until then?

Probably, yes.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Alright, should discussion about this topic be paused until then?

I would also like to add there is a official patch of sengoku rance that removes or edits the h-scenes, so the notion that "rance is just ****" or "rance cant function without the h-scenes" is wrong.

Sengoku Rance – Streamer Patch!

Want to stream Sengoku Rance? Well, now you can! Simply login to your account and locate your Sengoku Rance order. From there, select the optional “Download #3” button and download! Thi…

blog.mangagamer.org

At this point I'm convinced you just haven't actually read what I've said, so sure, pause it up.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Though fandom policy is inconsistent, it's also the only policy we're basing our rules off and we should still abide by it. Even if it acts only when pushed, that means we should delete verses only when they're deemed appropriate. If fandom hasn't deleted a wiki after seventeen years, the only reasonable assumption is that it's allowed until proven otherwise.

The VSBW guidelines aren't supposed to be any harsher than fandom's, though. Assuming you (and everyone else) aren't arguing for the wiki being needlessly puritan, we shouldn't bar any verse from being included that fandom has given the okay to.

I won't pretend to have scoured the AliceSoft wiki, but it is possible that it is scrubbed of hentai content, no? Does it contain, for example, guides on how to reach your favorite rape scenes? Because I know those are within these games, I know that is the intent- whether the wiki includes these may well be the reason for Fandom not recognizing the debauched content held within.

Our standards are basically clear. They were written so we can align with Fandom, yes, but our needs as a wiki are different than a wiki dedicated to the games themselves.

 

[CloverDragon03]

From what I understand, this seems a lot more like Level 3 than Level 4, and the series seems to have its own wiki on Fandom so...

I don't see why this shouldn't be allowed

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I won't pretend to have scoured the AliceSoft wiki, but it is possible that it is scrubbed of hentai content, no? Does it contain, for example, guides on how to reach your favorite rape scenes? Because I know those are within these games, I know that is the intent- whether the wiki includes these may well be the reason for Fandom not recognizing the debauched content held within.

Yes, the CGs guides are in the subsections for each game. And why should fandom care, if its not directly being displayed on their website?

Our standards are basically clear. They were written so we can align with Fandom, yes, but our needs as a wiki are different than a wiki dedicated to the games themselves.

I really do not see the issue then besides your personal morality, it's entirely possible to powerscale the characters in the series without talking about how rance's dick is boundless in AP or some shit like that.

 

[Deagonx]

He's not exactly abusive per se, but he is a huge pervert

He's quite explicitly a serial rapist.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

He's quite explicitly a serial rapist.

sure, if you ignore all of the other deeds in the series you could come to that conclusion

 

[Deagonx]

sure, if you ignore all of the other deeds in the series you could come to that conclusion

I don't follow. What deeds would override the fact that he, on a regular basis, rapes women in several of these games, in terms of determining whether he is or isn't a serial rapist?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I don't follow. What deeds would override the fact that he, on a regular basis, rapes women in several of these games, in terms of determining whether he is or isn't a serial rapist?

you're acting like thats all his character is.

 

[CloverDragon03]

you're acting like thats all his character is.

Okay but like...

It seems like he does, in fact, do that.

 

[Deagonx]

you're acting like thats all his character is.

No. I'm just pointing out, in fact, that he is. He doesn't stop being that thing because he's other things too.

You just said he wasn't abusive towards women. He... literally rapes them.

 

[CloverDragon03]

There's a difference between "that's all this character is" and "yeah, they do other stuff, but that doesn't change the fact that they do this"

 

[Deagonx]

I also want to point out there is actual Rance hentai. Like, not games, but actual hentai videos.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I also want to point out there is actual Rance hentai. Like, not games, but actual hentai videos.

Which are non canon and not made by alicesoft, as they are a game company.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

And we allow this character, and if you've seen anything about redo of healer.... you'd see why this argument is moot

Keyaru

Keyaru is a 14-year-old teenager that obtained the Hero Class: Healer. After being summoned to serve the kingdom, he was betrayed and enslaved by the other heroes, suffering from all kinds of abuse and exploitation for 4 years. However, he later forms a scheme to take his revenge after realizing...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[CloverDragon03]

I would very much say that if we allow Redo of Healer, we should probably allow this, just based on our standards

I am very much content with nuking both verses tho

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The second a game dips into the classification of being intended for erotic purposes then it's almost certainly a Classification 4 on our content rating scale. The intent of the content seems to be sexual gratification, from an extremely cursory Google search, we're not indexing it.

Completely agree here.

 

[Deagonx]

Right, but canon or not, I find it hard to accept the claim that the primary purpose of the series is not it's sexual content if there's also an official hentai series.

Like, this isn't R34 content, this was an actual hentai studio with multiple episodes.

 

[Deagonx]

Sorry, it occurs to me I misrepresented the situation. There are actually two separate hentai series for Rance, with a total of six episodes between them.

The second series is a direct adaptation of the first game.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Sorry, it occurs to me I misrepresented the situation. There are actually two separate hentai series for Rance, with a total of six episodes between them.

The second series is a direct adaptation of the first game.

still not canon or made by alicesoft lmao

 

[Deagonx]

Neither of which matters to the point I'm making.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well, ultimately what classifies a Type 4 thing is that pornographic content is intrinsic to the work and can't be removed from the series. Considering you can do non-H playthroughs and whatever warcrime the MC has committed we have at least one equal of it, I'm not seeing why it couldn't be allowed.

The exception being, of course, if something pornographic is needed for scaling. Like how Rosen Garten has a dude who solely uses his dong as a weapon or how years ago Ant/some other dude didn't want to make a Frank Miller Superman profile because his primary scaling would come from a sex feat.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

The exception being, of course, if something pornographic is needed for scaling. Like how Rosen Garten has a dude who solely uses his dong as a weapon.

yea, rance has none of that, besides whoever rance ***** gets their level cap/maximum potential slightly increased

 

[Qawsedf234]

besides whoever rance ***** gets their level cap/maximum potential slightly increased

This is hurting you here not helping.

 

[Deagonx]

can't be removed

I'm not sure where that comes from though. The rating is only described as such:

Verses that have high sexual content as the main focus of the material. Such verses are pornographic in nature and strictly unsuitable for the wiki. The majority of the media content is sexual for verses that fall under this rating.

The main crux as far as I can tell is the "main focus." To me, Rance is very clearly focused on sexual content.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

This is hurting you here not helping.

its not even relevant enough to be considered an addition to a profile, if someone wants to make a fool out of themselves and use this point they can go ahead

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I'm not sure where that comes from though. The rating is only described as such:

Verses that have high sexual content as the main focus of the material. Such verses are pornographic in nature and strictly unsuitable for the wiki. The majority of the media content is sexual for verses that fall under this rating.

The main crux as far as I can tell is the "main focus." To me, Rance is very clearly focused on sexual content.

Rance X is literally described as having a low amount of sexual content for its length.

 

[Deagonx]

if someone wants to make a fool out of themselves and use this point they can go ahead

The extreme irony of this coming from someone who recently described the rapist protagonist of this series as "not abusive to women."

 

[Deagonx]

Rance X is literally described as having a low amount of sexual content for its length.

So, one game. Cool. Of the 12 or so that have been published?

 

[Qawsedf234]

To me, Rance is very clearly focused on sexual content.

Rance the character can be a horny character without the work falling into Type 4. It's about the overall content ratio and the presentation.

its not even relevant enough to be considered an addition to a profile,

Then why would you mention this? It does nothing but hurt any argument you're trying to make.

 

[Deagonx]

Rance the character can be a horny character without the work falling into Type 4. It's about the overall content ratio and the presentation.

Right, but if we agree the removability isn't part of the criteria then that -- at the very least -- settles our disagreement.

As far as the presentation, the verse is very clearly pornographic in nature.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

So, one game. Cool. Of the 12 or so that have been published?

you can read all the summaries in the alice soft wiki if you so wish, and find out for yourself.

 

[Qawsedf234]

removability isn't part of the criteria then that -- at the very least -- settles our disagreement.

But that's the point I'm making here. If you can cut off all the **** and it just be an edgy game then the **** isn't some intrinsic thing. At least not from my view.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

But that's the point I'm making here. If you can cut off all the **** and it just be an edgy game then the **** isn't some intrinsic thing. At least not from my view.

It has been done officially with sengoku rance.

 

[Deagonx]

But that's the point I'm making here. If you can cut off all the **** and it just be an edgy game then the **** isn't some intrinsic thing. At least not from my view.

I mean, there's even a SFW release of Kuroinu on Steam, but that's unambiguously a hentai series. I don't think removability is a realistic angle to take, since any series could have those kind of elements removed.

I think intent and presentation is key.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I mean, there's even a SFW release of Kuroinu on Steam, but that's unambiguously a hentai series. I don't think removability is a realistic angle to take, since any series could have those kind of elements removed.

I think intent and presentation is key.

If it was intended to be masturbated to, removing the 18+ content would ruin the intent and presentation.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So if somebody argues they're watching hentai for the plot, then it's totally acceptable to index? Our line is drawn at whether they gain abilities from the mass rape?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Level 4: Extreme - Verses that have high sexual content as the main focus of the material. Such verses are pornographic in nature and strictly unsuitable for the wiki. The majority of the media content is sexual for verses that fall under this rating.

I think the italicized portion is pretty important for helping determine whether or not this would be suitable

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

So if somebody argues they're watching hentai for the plot, then it's totally acceptable to index? Our line is drawn at whether they gain abilities from the mass rape?

If you can index the series without referencing its sexual content then i dont see a complaint.