Allowing Rance on the wiki.

[Promestein]

even if you can avoid the H-scenes, it is their presence alone that makes the game unacceptable.

This is so blatantly incorrect it makes it clear you're not arguing in good faith or with any actual knowledge of what you're talking about. Many verses on the wiki have H-scenes; if the majority of Rance's content is not sexual, it's not Level 4. MGQ isn't a fair comparison - every enemy attacks you with sexual violence. There's no way a SFW playthrough of MGQ could exist, so it's Level 4.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I have to agree with Prom here. Having H scenes doesn't disqualify a verse, it's whether that is the focus of the series.

Like to argue for example that Spirit of the Enternity Sword shouldn't be here when it only has 2 H scenes per route for like a 50+ hour game is ridiculous imo

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This is so blatantly incorrect it makes it clear you're not arguing in good faith or with any actual knowledge of what you're talking about. Many verses on the wiki have H-scenes; if the majority of Rance's content is not sexual, it's not Level 4. MGQ isn't a fair comparison - every enemy attacks you with sexual violence. There's no way a SFW playthrough of MGQ could exist, so it's Level 4.

That... that exact argument was used in MGQ, though, Prom. It was specifically one of the opening arguments that MGQ could theoretically be played counter to its intent- that is, an h-game for people to jerk off to- and be 100% SFW.

Celestial mentioned above a plotline centered around stealing virginity and a number of unfortunate Google searches that this thread has forced me to make have led me to find descriptions from fans such as:

The premise of the series basically comes down to “what if main character in a typical fantasy setting was a terrible human being?” So instead of playing as a brave hero, you play as a sleazy, slave owning, fuckboy who says the word “rape” every other sentence.

I played Sengoku Rance as my first "dating sim" game. I think it's a great first game as long as you don't mind hentai. The gameplay is way too addicting.

I don't know why you're trying to paint me as a liar (or, at least, as dishonest), Prom, but looking to outside sources (and that's without the video evidence I would not post, which comprises the majority of what I found) paints a pretty straightforward picture to me. This shit's ****.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I have to agree with Prom here. Having H scenes doesn't disqualify a verse, it's whether that is the focus of the series.

Like to argue for example that Spirit of the Enternity Sword shouldn't be here when it only has 2 H scenes per route for like a 50+ hour game is ridiculous imo

Do you agree that Rance is not nukige, as you said? Or are you again just referring to "the line" and where you'd like to draw it?

 

[Promestein]

It was specifically one of the opening arguments that MGQ could theoretically be played counter to its intent- that is, an h-game for people to jerk off to- and be 100% SFW.

And it was wrong. You cannot play MGQ without avoiding sexual content; if a SFW playthrough was uploaded onto youtube, you'd have to censor like 80% of the screen for a huge portion of the game, or just cut out 90% of the actual gameplay. If Rance has actual gameplay and SFW playthroughs, it's fine, regardless of the sexual content and regardless of whether or not it's intended to be jerked off to. FSN and Tsukihime and Dies Irae all have sex scenes. Tsukihime, at least, has rape scenes. We allow these verses, and we allow other ones with deviant characters and deviant acts.

I said you were misrepresenting things because you were. You said the presence of h-scenes is itself unacceptable. It isn't.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That... that exact argument was used in MGQ, though, Prom. It was specifically one of the opening arguments that MGQ could theoretically be played counter to its intent- that is, an h-game for people to jerk off to- and be 100% SFW.

Celestial mentioned above a plotline centered around stealing virginity and a number of unfortunate Google searches that this thread has forced me to make have led me to find descriptions from fans such as:



I don't know why you're trying to paint me as a liar (or, at least, as dishonest), Prom, but looking to outside sources (and that's without the video evidence I would not post, which comprises the majority of what I found) paints a pretty straightforward picture to me. This shit's ****.

if you've read the op, i've linked to a summary of one of the games in the series, rance 03. that would be more helpful than 2 line descriptions.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Idk if Rance is nukige or eroge, thats dependent on whether it can be played without the H scenes, I am just against series being removed just for having H scenes, in the case of Eternity Sword, we are talking about like a hour of H scenes vs like 59 hours of game play.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

And it was wrong. You cannot play MGQ without avoiding sexual content; if a SFW playthrough was uploaded onto youtube, you'd have to censor like 80% of the screen for a huge portion of the game, or just cut out 90% of the actual gameplay. If Rance has actual gameplay and SFW playthroughs, it's fine, regardless of the sexual content and regardless of whether or not it's intended to be jerked off to. FSN and Tsukihime and Dies Irae all have sex scenes. Tsukihime, at least, has rape scenes. We allow these verses, and we allow other ones with deviant characters and deviant acts.

I said you were misrepresenting things because you were. You said the presence of h-scenes is itself unacceptable. It isn't.

I feel the need to ask based on your phrasing here: have you looked into Rance in the specific, done your homework and all that, or are you speaking in the abstract and simply felt the need to ask because I'm a bit of a prude?

Verses which are pornographic in nature are not fit for the wiki. This does not mean every verse with a sex scene. This means verses meant to illicit masturbation. As far as I'm aware our current 3's on the scale are not intended towards this effect, and so I suspect we may be using the term "H-scene" differently, perhaps leading to the misunderstanding here. If Dies Irae is meant as a porno, color me shocked but I'd be at the fore, trying to remove it for violating our rules, too.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Idk if Rance is nukige or eroge, thats dependent on whether it can be played without the H scenes, I am just against series being removed just for having H scenes, in the case of Eternity Sword, we are talking about like a hour of H scenes vs like 59 hours of game play.

There are very few require h scenes in rance that are forced, most of them are from side quests or optional choices.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

There are very few require h scenes in rance that are forced, most of them are from side quests or optional choices.

So, not only are they a major focus of the game for the actual player, you cannot have a SFW playthrough.

 

[First_Witch]

If Dies Irae is meant as a porno, color me shocked but I'd be at the fore, trying to remove it for violating our rules, too.

Just for clarity, it isnt. The original VN featured like, 2 sex scenes per route in a massive 100 hour give or take story line. And the currently legally on Steam avaiable Amantes amentes version is free of sex iirc.

Which is btw the same for Fate, like the original VN had low quality sex scenes that were removed in more modernized versions.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

So, not only are they a major focus of the game for the actual player, you cannot have a SFW playthrough.

how did you get most of the scenes being optional choices as a major focus?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just for clarity, it isnt. The original VN featured like, 2 sex scenes per route in a massive 100 hour give or take story line. And the currently legally on Steam avaiable Amantes amentes version is free of sex iirc.

Which is btw the same for Fate, like the original VN had low quality sex scenes that were removed in more modernized versions.

Okay, then as far as I can tell the games aren't remotely similar to what we're handling here. I don't see the wisdom in mentioning them.

Thanks for the tip, Witchy.

 

[ImmortalDread]

how did you get most of the scenes being optional choices as a major focus?

It won't even matter:

Verses classified as level 4, even with the option to display safe-for-work (SFW) content, will still not be allowed and will be treated the same as other level 4 content.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It won't even matter:

thats a clear difference from the plot relevance of these scenes, which is being argued.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah I was just referring to this bit of Prom's argument

If Rance has actual gameplay and SFW playthroughs

Which we completely went against in the past. The presence of gameplay and the option to avoid H-scenes isn't enough for us to go against the game's intended purpose.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Yeah I was just referring to this bit of Prom's argument


Which we completely went against in the past. The presence of gameplay and the option to avoid H-scenes isn't enough for us to go against the game's intended purpose.

What you're talking about is a nukige. That is different from an eroge, which is what rance is classified as.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What you're talking about is a nukige. That is different from an eroge, which is what rance is classified as.

That's rad, but I'm not speaking just from the classification. I've looked into it, this shit's ****.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That's rad, but I'm not speaking just from the classification. I've looked into it, this shit's ****.

sure, but it being classified as level4 would be if the game had no artistic value outside of the ****, which is clearly not the case :

Riding high off of his recent achievements, TADA soon shifted his focus toward making a third entry in the Rance series. Assisted once more by WAO and Purin, he was at last able to program the game to be a legitimate RPG with map movement as he had long wished to. The game’s plot was also made far more ambitious, incorporating his love for studying historical warfare by focusing on a conflict between two warring nations.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

sure, but it being classified as level4 would be if the game had no artistic value outside of the ****, which is clearly not the case :

Our rules don't mention "artistic value" at all, actually. It is directed towards the focus of the piece of work. Anything creative is inherently artistic.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This honestly is a mess to me, that description of the 2nd game points towards it being a nukige, but this is a series spanning like 30 years, the other ones probably aren't talking about virginity in its summary.

Basically maybe this was a nukige which developed into an eroge, but if it has nukige roots, does it mean it can never be allowed?

This is what it looks like we are getting into with these borderline cases.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

This honestly is a mess to me, that description of the 2nd game points towards it being a nukige, but this is a series spanning like 30 years, the other ones probably aren't talking about virginity in its summary.

Basically maybe this was a nukige which developed into an eroge, but if it has nukige roots, does it mean it can never be allowed?

This is what we are getting into with these borderline cases.

Rance was always intended to have a greater plot, just the limits of the computers at the time made the older rance games barebones

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This honestly is a mess to me, that description of the 2nd game points towards it being a nukige, but this is a series spanning like 30 years, the other ones probably aren't talking about virginity in its summary.

Basically maybe this was a nukige which developed into an eroge, but if it has nukige roots, does it mean it can never be allowed?

This is what we are getting into with these borderline cases.

Theoretically, no, but that particular game would definitely not be allowed.

I don't really care about the minutiae of what words are used to classify it, though. As far as I can tell, Rance continues this trend of just being outright ****, admittedly softening up as it became less acceptable. I can't find anything on the most recent title but all previous ones certainly fall on one side of the line. I read up on the title just before the most recent, since summaries are more readily available: it has not changed.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Our rules don't mention "artistic value" at all, actually. It is directed towards the focus of the piece of work. Anything creative is inherently artistic.

Interviews with the game's main writer show he puts a quite a bit of thought into the plot of the rance series, sure **** is in it but that doesn't mean its the primary focus

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Interviews with the game's main writer show he puts a quite a bit of thought into the plot of the rance series, sure **** is in it but that doesn't mean its the primary focus

Hentai can have plot and still be hentai. This is not a relevant argument. You admit it is pornographic, that's the lot of it, man.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Hentai can have plot and still be hentai. This is not a relevant argument. You admit it is pornographic, that's the lot of it, man.

pornographic content is not inherently level 4, depictions of sexual content are still permitted in level 3. that is quite relevant.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You're conflating "sex" and "****"- the two are not interchangeable.

 

[Ayewale]

I still don't quite understand why rance:03, a game with suitable enough content to be hosted on wikia years after the fetish wiki/pornography wiki purge, is still being fiercely debated as to whether it meets the vsbw's standards—which only exist to match wikia's. If it can be played through perfectly on youtube and hosted jolly well on wikia, then I don't know why its' inclusion would be so disputed bar bias or some weird puritanism.

We don't allow pornographic series because they break fandom rules. If it demonstrably doesn't...what else is there to talk about?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I still don't quite understand why rance:03, a game with suitable enough content to be hosted on wikia years after the fetish wiki/pornography wiki purge, is still being fiercely debated as to whether it meets the vsbw's standards—which only exist to match wikia's. If it can be played through perfectly on youtube and hosted jolly well on wikia, then I don't know why its' inclusion would be so disputed bar bias or some weird puritanism.

We don't allow pornographic series because they break fandom rules. If it demonstrably doesn't...what else is there to talk about?

Quoting you.

Actual h-games have wikis so fandom's policy is wildly inconsistent. What it comes down to is that some wikis are deemed to be dedicated to fetishes and sexual content while others are not. The Monster Girl wiki was singled out as a fetish site but HuniePop is just a puzzle game with relationships, I guess.

Fandom only seems to act when it is pushed to do so. Even very large wikis can probably avoid action- in fact, several very large wikis are still only netting very small amounts of visits and user edits. I know because I used to run one.

We have specifically given rules that state that, no, even if you can avoid the ****, if the intent of the game is ****, then it isn't acceptable. I also don't understand why this is being so hotly debated.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Quoting you.


Fandom only seems to act when it is pushed to do so. Even very large wikis can probably avoid action- in fact, several very large wikis are still only netting very small amounts of visits and user edits. I know because I used to run one.

We have specifically given rules that state that, no, even if you can avoid the ****, if the intent of the game is ****, then it isn't acceptable. I also don't understand why this is being so hotly debated.

having erotic elements does not mean being intended as ****. Rance is intended as a JRPG parody firsta nd foremost.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

having erotic elements does not mean being intended as ****. Rance is intended as a JRPG parody firsta nd foremost.

My brother, YOU called it ****.

Interviews with the game's main writer show he puts a quite a bit of thought into the plot of the rance series, sure **** is in it but that doesn't mean its the primary focus

but other series that have been accepted such as Berserk have these same portrayals, which are arguably way less tame than rance. I'n rance's case it is usually meant to be lighthearted. And the rance series has been critically acclaimed in japan (and no, not because of the ****.)

sure, but it being classified as level4 would be if the game had no artistic value outside of the ****, which is clearly not the case :

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

My brother, YOU called it ****.

I called the sex scenes ****, 2 different meanings

 

[Antvasima]

This honestly is a mess to me, that description of the 2nd game points towards it being a nukige, but this is a series spanning like 30 years, the other ones probably aren't talking about virginity in its summary.

Basically maybe this was a nukige which developed into an eroge, but if it has nukige roots, does it mean it can never be allowed?

This is what it looks like we are getting into with these borderline cases.

Okay. I do not know what to think then. Should I ask Sannse about the issue?

 

[Antvasima]

Fandom only seems to act when it is pushed to do so. Even very large wikis can probably avoid action- in fact, several very large wikis are still only netting very small amounts of visits and user edits. I know because I used to run one.

We have specifically given rules that state that, no, even if you can avoid the ****, if the intent of the game is ****, then it isn't acceptable. I also don't understand why this is being so hotly debated.

These seem to be very good points.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I called the sex scenes ****, 2 different meanings

It being pornographic in nature would mean it is ****. Without getting too far into the reeds here, I dunno what sort of **** you or anyone else has been watching, but it traditionally has some backdrop- some more than others. You, yourself, have ceded the point that this verse is, to an extent, just ****- this is while defending it.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You, yourself, have ceded the point that this verse is, to an extent, just ****- this is while defending it.

How does admitting a verse has sex scenes mean it is just ****? This would mean berserk is just ****, tsukihime is just ****, you get the idea.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Useful Information

• https://www.fandom.com/community-creation-policy
• https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Fandom_Community_Guidelines

I believe it's unjust to justify the use of "Fandom did not delete the wiki from Rance, so technically it's allowed" solely based on the fact that their guidelines differ from ours, even if they established those guidelines from VSBW themselves.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

How does admitting a verse has sex scenes mean it is just ****? This would mean berserk is just ****, tsukihime is just ****, you get the idea.

I think you may not know what the word "****" means.

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked Sannse about this issue, but it might take her a few days to reply.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I have asked Sannse about this issue, but it might take her a few days to reply.

Alright, should discussion about this topic be paused until then?

I would also like to add there is a official patch of sengoku rance that removes or edits the h-scenes, so the notion that "rance is just ****" or "rance cant function without the h-scenes" is wrong.

Sengoku Rance – Streamer Patch!

Want to stream Sengoku Rance? Well, now you can! Simply login to your account and locate your Sengoku Rance order. From there, select the optional “Download #3” button and download! Thi…

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