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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Fezzih_007 said:
What, you lying before?
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I simply cannot understand why your people try to apply their own standarts to foreign media.....

Just saying, you can't apply the canon framework from Western comics to Anime..

That's like trying to eat a hamburger with chopsticks...
 
Well I heard that apparently both English and Japanese versions of Sonic games are accepted as canon but not too sure on the specifics.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Alright, I will be honest about this.

Why do you guys think you can apply concepts like "Canon" to Japanese, Korean and other non-Western medias?.
Viewing the continuity of DB through Western lences is incredibly wrong and arrogant.

This is literally insulting the creator and imposing Cultural supremacism.

They do not share YOUR views in regards what's part of the continuity and what's not.

Everytime I heard the word canon, it makes me sick.
I'm starting to find that Word repulsive.
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I see where you're coming from, and I agree that it's important to recognize the cultural context of a work, especially when it comes from a different tradition or country. Dragon Ball, for example, was created within a Japanese framework, and its storytelling doesn't always adhere to the same structure or ideas that we might expect in Western media.


That said, I think it's worth considering that fans around the world—whether in Japan, the U.S., or elsewhere—will often bring their own perspectives to a work. The concept of 'Canon' itself isn't inherently Western. It’s a term that has become widely used in fan communities everywhere, as people engage with fictional universes and try to organize and make sense of the material. It helps fans distinguish what's considered official from what's not, and while it might not be an entirely perfect fit for every cultural context, it's not inherently disrespectful to the original creators.


Also, creators like Akira Toriyama have acknowledged that continuity in Dragon Ball can be a bit flexible at times. For example, the inclusion of movies or non-canon material has often been more about fan service or exploring alternate possibilities, rather than sticking rigidly to a singular ‘canon’. So, I don't think that applying the concept of canon to Dragon Ball is necessarily imposing a Western lens, but rather engaging in a global fan culture that wants to understand the official scope of a work.


At the end of the day, it’s a balance between respecting the creator's intent and recognizing how the fandom interprets and engages with the material. It’s not about imposing cultural supremacy, but about understanding and enjoying the work from a variety of perspectives.
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StekFence said:
There’s literally nothing wrong with this
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Nothing wrong with it, yeah.

What i meant is that applying your standarts to other cultures don't always match.

Japanese, Indian, etc cultures are incompatable with the Western culture.

Hence, applying the canon vision to Japanese mangas will always go wrong.

For example Digimon, DB creators have a much looser view of continuity and can accept two different pieces of the franchise as connected, even with plotholes and hilarious contradictions..

While Westeners on the slightest error think the two things are separate.
 
I gotta disagree, everyone can understand the concept of continuity between two things. Like if you wanna say it’s 1 way, or just not continuous, that’s still interacting with the idea of a canon. It’s how things have sequels.
 
StekFence said:
I gotta disagree, everyone can understand the concept of continuity between two things. Like if you wanna say it’s 1 way, or just not continuous, that’s still interacting with the idea of a canon. It’s how things have sequels.
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Again...
Many Japanese mangakas have connected works from the same franchise even with contradictions.

Japanese simply do not care about canon like White/Westernized people do.

Torishima for example said DB canon has always been loose, and there isn't a real, strict main and rigid continuity.

Super simply sells more. They envision most branches of the same story as original on their own, the "main one" it's simply the one they make more money with, essentially...
 
Even if DB has a loose canon, that doesn’t mean you can’t try to determine what is in it, or what specifically is informing the history of Super.
And besides, that doesn’t necessarily apply to everyone
 
StekFence said:
Then that makes it canon… Just becuase the canon is stupid doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Look at comics
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Maybe.
But the difference is that Comics are not the same as mangas.

Canon is a word only reserved to American works, not Japanese ones.

In comics authors normally treat different versions of the same character as separate timelines if the events do not fit with each other.

HOWEVER, Japanese, quite often ignore this contradictions and believe that two versions of the same characters from different media can be the same one, such as Mario's case, the author saying all the Marios from the gales are one and the same.
 
I see. Even if that’s the case, people are still free to interpret and interact with media as they want. Especially here, all that it really takes is for others to agree. If a given canon made no sense if we took the creators word seriously, ignoring them would be a real option Imo. Or just go with it ig
 
StekFence said:
Even if DB has a loose canon, that doesn’t mean you can’t try to determine what is in it, or what specifically is informing the history of Super.
And besides, that doesn’t necessarily apply to everyone
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Obviously you can try to determine it.

But thing is, if some connections do not make sense, yet, the writers and IP holders say both are the sake thing...

This becomes an argument of "us" VS "them".

We can try to reconcilie the events with headcanons, but ultimately we would be applying a logical fallacy in regards continuity in-lore.


Westeners/White caucasians/Non-westernized whites in essence...are very pefectionist when it comes to continuity, something Japanese people simply do not pay much attention to it and focus more about things that for us are trivial, like character born dates, curiosities and marketing impact rather than continuity logic, etc
 
StekFence said:
I see. Even if that’s the case, people are still free to interpret and interact with media as they want. Especially here, all that it really takes is for others to agree. If a given canon made no sense if we took the creators word seriously, ignoring them would be a real option Imo. Or just go with it ig
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Yeah you are alright.

Everyone is free.

Tho when a community takes an opinion as a fact and reject the notion of others thinking otherwise, is where the things get rough.
 
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Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
This is literally insulting the creator and imposing Cultural supremacism.
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spongebob-leave.gif


I think you're thinking way too hard on this, lol

Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
They do not share YOUR views in regards what's part of the continuity and what's not.
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That's true, however, that doesn't necessairly apply only to non-western authors

I really doubt that many western authors care enough about canon, some of them explicitly don't give a ****, R. L. Stine is a good of example this.

Marvel and DC, but mainly DC, are the only Verses which i can think of where authors recurrently think about continuity (Of course, other franchises have writers who try to keep things consistent between works, but not as much as those i mentioned), but that's more due to the whole bullshitery they have created with the elseworlds, reboots, alternate universes and etc.

Like, they a look at the confusion that the Pre-COIE era was with the whole "DIfferent characters coming from different universes" stuff, especially if you were a new reader, lol.

Overall, your point seems to be more regarding the "What the author think is canon VS. What the fandom thinks" than what "Westerns" and non-wersterns, which apparently involve mainly asian authors according to your description, think.

IMO, regardless of the author's nationality and place where they are born, we can try to apply a sense of continuity to the works while not really making it more important than the work's quality + It's most important purpose: Entertainment. I can say that DB Daima is in no-way canon to DB Super while still enjoying it, for example.

Regarding the "Author VS Fandom" topic.... I think we should take in account more of what the franchise shows rather than what the author says tbh
 
Accelerated_Evolution said:
Regarding the "Author VS Fandom" topic.... I think we should take in account more of what the franchise shows rather than what the author says tbh
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I agree. Tho in my opinion I think it should depend on specific contexts.

Let's say for example a major breaking plothole in a guide, saying Goku's SSJ form in the DBZ Anime is Pink, while in the Anime is yellow, obviously the Anime hould take precendence. .
But if the guide is talking about inter-continuity stuff, we have no reason to deny it, even with Major contradictions arising, there is not a defined timeline in the main show.

For example Garlick Jr being a thing in the DBZ Anime at all, despite that same filler being a continuation from the film and contradicting Anime stuff, authors simply didn't care.

The story is in their heads, and they can always twist it and place it in, somehow.

Besides a series having plotholes is not a rare thing these days....
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Let's say for example a major breaking plothole in a guide, saying Goku's SSJ form in the DBZ Anime is Pink, while in the Anime is yellow, obviously the Anime hould take precendence.
Click to expand...
Yup, although i doubt any guide would fumble this bad

Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
But if the guide is talking about inter-continuity stuff, we have no reason to deny it, even with Major contradictions arising, there is not a defined timeline in the main show.

For example Garlick Jr being a thing in the DBZ Anime at all, despite that same filler being a continuation from the film and contradicting Anime stuff, authors simply didn't care.

The story is in their heads, and they can always twist it and place it in, somehow.
Click to expand...
The thing is: While there ins't a defined timeline, the fact two interpretations of the same story (Considering the DBZ Anime and Manga as an example) take significantly different routes on it's storytelling give us (As fans) a reason to discern the franchise into two continuities

Essentially considering the context we're talking about, powerscaling, with the Toei Anime giving different feats than those presented in the manga

That's at least my view on the thing

Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Besides a series having plotholes is not a rare thing these days....
Click to expand...
It never has been something rare at all tbh
 
According to Toriyama, ki as a concept is made of spiritual powers named "genki", courage "yuko" and right-mindness "shoki". Ki is formless , shapeless and is invisible. Everyone in Dragon Ball has ki and is a fundamental energy that humans are made/comprised of (their identities). With proper training one can control its power. It also shows for example who they are, reflects their hearts, their identities, and if they are evil or not. Genki which is part of ki, is in everything, from grass, trees, people, animals, atmosphere, inanimate objects that aren't even alive, suns, and of course the earth itself, thus everything in and the universe itself has Genki. Genki is also the "hope" of that persons genki. Ki shapes depends on the user and reflects their hearths. Ki by itself would have Non existence physiology (Nature 1 & possibly 2. Aspect of existence 1,3 & 4) , since it is invisible, shapeless and formless, yet is the fundamental energy that humans are made and comprised of and is still paradoxically there
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@TiltedFN
 
Accelerated_Evolution said:
While there ins't a defined timeline, the fact two interpretations of the same story (Considering the DBZ Anime and Manga as an example) take significantly different routes on it's storytelling give us (As fans) a reason to discern the franchise into two continuities
Click to expand...
Correct, essentially.

But it's a different case.

Both DBZ Anime and manga were confirmed multiple times to be different by official DB sources, so it's fine.
This is not a headcanon.

And yeah, but I was talking about in case of joining two pieces of media in a singular timeline that contradict the events, not two versions of the same show like the DBZ Anime and the manga.

So my opinion is, it really depends on how and what we are arguing in regards continuity stuff.
 
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