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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Hasty12345 said:
send them here
Click to expand...
According to Toriyama, ki as a concept is made of spiritual powers named "genki", courage "yuko" and right-mindness "shoki". Ki is formless , shapeless and is invisible. Everyone in Dragon Ball has ki and is a fundamental energy that humans are made/comprised of (their identities). With proper training one can control its power. It also shows for example who they are, reflects their hearts, their identities, and if they are evil or not. Genki which is part of ki, is in everything, from grass, trees, people, animals, atmosphere, inanimate objects that aren't even alive, suns, and of course the earth itself, thus everything in and the universe itself has Genki. Genki is also the "hope" of that persons genki. Ki shapes depends on the user and reflects their hearths. Ki by itself would have Non existence physiology (Nature 1 & possibly 2. Aspect of existence 1,3 & 4) , since it is invisible, shapeless and formless, yet is the fundamental energy that humans are made and comprised of and is still paradoxically there.
Click to expand...
 
Boy, i don't even know how until now ki hasn't been considered a concept, there's a lot of evidence for that, and there's no denying it.
 
speed-ishowspeed.gif
 
I am a tad bit late to the party but I wanted to give my thoughts and hopefully clear some miss conceptions
Firstly
the "contradiction" or anti feat for IZ ,Goku and co blocking IZ attack after he became HD. The thing is, IZ wasn’t aiming or targeting the attack at Goku and co he just wanted to level the planet. As seen here, he releases attacks simultaneously at different places throughout the entire planet to level it, and that’s it. If he was targeting the gang, why didn’t he continue spamming? Why did he stop after the planet was leveled?
I am trying to reason that since the attack aim was to surface wipe the planet, it didn’t need tier 2 AP to stop it, as he wasn’t targeting them in the first place. Heck, even Shin and Gowasu block these attacks from IZ would this be a tier 2 upscale for them?? No. Shin and Gowasu blocking these attacks, with my reasoning, proves or makes the intention more clear the attack was just meant to surface wipe, hence it isn’t an anti-feat.
Heck even Mai survives an energy attack from Goku Black in Episode 46, and this leveling the planet habit is common, since Goku Black, even with his potentially tier2 attacks, was just surface wiping

This statement of Zamasu fusing with just the universe is wrong and taken out of context. To put it simply, the use of “universe” there is a mistranslation. Even though it uses the kanji for universe 宇宙, in this context it didn’t literally just mean the U7 macrocosm. “Uchū” is context dependent and can mean the cosmos, timeline, world, or all of existence.
The dub makes this clear by outright saying “the whole cosmos.”
Now, in the sub it does say “universe,” so what’s the problem? Here’s the statement:
ザマスは、宇宙になろうとしているのかもしれん。
もはや神の形さえも捨てて、正義と秩序、そのものとなろうとしているのだ。
Funny enough they make the exact same mistake here
“Zeno is the most powerful god in the entire universe.”
全宇宙で一番偉い神様。その気になれば一瞬で宇宙を消し去ることができる力を持つ。かつて18あった宇宙は全王の手によって12まで減らされてしまったという。
This is obviously contradictory calling Zeno the strongest god in “the universe,” Clearly, “universe” here is shorthand for the entire cosmos not the macrocosm.
So, when Gowasu says
「ざ、ざ、ザマス…ザマスは宇宙そのものになるかもしれない。あ？彼は神聖なものすべてを捨て去り、正義と秩序そのものになろうとしている。」
it means becoming the entire world/timeline/cosmos/all of existence. The dub even supports this directly. Downplaying it as just U7 makes no sense whatsoever and the other points below makes it more clear.


Zeno didn’t just destroy U7 I say this not only because IZ was affecting the cosmos (which would require traversing the neutral zone to reach the entire cosmos) but also because if that were the case, then why wasn’t the backdrop of the timeline after erasure the neutral zone? The neutral zone backdrop has planets and galaxies, but this place didn’t. In fact, it was the exact same backdrop used to represent the World of Void, a place without time and space, I personally think this is how they represent timeless voids.
If you argue that Zeno only erased the neutral zone, then you run into the same problem as the whole 6D DB debate all over again.
Even the number of time rings at the end of the arc tells us Zeno erased the timeline. Why? Because initially there were only five time rings. Unlike the manga, where we explicitly see a time ring break due to Zeno erasure, in the anime we don’t see it break but one time ring was missing at the end of the arc. There were only six, not seven, when Gowasu checks.
I say seven because it’s stated by Beerus that Whis helping Trunks and Mai would create another time ring. Whis then reprimands Beerus, saying that he himself already created one. Since Whis helped Trunks again, one more time ring was made. Meaning if there were originally five, plus one from Beerus, plus another from Whis, there should have been seven. But we only see six, indicating a time ring was missing or more accurately, erased because of Zeno similar to his manga counterpart.
It’s important to make Zeno’s intentions clear so we can know if Zamasu did in fact complete his merging with the timeline.
In Episode 67, Goku asks Supreme Kai if the Zeno of this world would still be present:
あ...なっ、海王神さま！この世界の全王様って、まだいるんかな？
Key note here is the usage of “world.” Then later, Goku asks Zeno that this (referring to Zamasu) should be erased, with Zeno replying “this kind of world”:
消しちゃった方がいいんじゃねえか？
そうだね。こんな世界。
“World” here = multiverse, because it’s the same context as Goku’s earlier question.
Zeno’s response tells us his intentions: he was targeting the world, not Infinite Zamasu himself. Right before the erasure, Zeno states:
こんな世界、消えちゃえ！
“This kind of world should disappear.”
Even in the dub, Zeno blatantly says: “All of existence go away!”
Why this matters
Because if Zeno was targeting the world (timeline/multiverse) and not IZ directly, then this confirms Zamasu did in fact fuse with the timeline.

Now, if Zeno was targeting the world itself and erased the timeline, why was Zamasu erased too ? since he was already affecting other timelines?
ザマスだな。未来で何かあったな。それが現在にまで影響を及ぼしている。
Trunks and Mai escaped to the main timeline without being affected. So if Zamasu was not just only inside the timeline itself, but literally extended outside of it he should have survived. at least in the space between timelines. But he didn’t. Why? Because Zamasu was the timeline.
Zamasu = Timeline.
Erase the timeline → erase Zamasu, because Zamasu had become the timeline itself.
So once he had fused with this timeline, erasing it naturally erased him as well, even if parts of his presence stretched into others.
This alone is enough proof that IZ did fuse with the timeline.
This is just an additional speculation but consistent if you noticed immediately zamasu in his ethereal state started fusing and spreading his heads in the sky were moving but once he covered the planet, they stopped. Same with his essence across the cosmos initially, it was spreading, but right before Zeno’s erasure, it was static. This mirrors the earlier instance and suggests he had completed his merging.
Click to expand...
So I was initially going for option 1 but with
this Option 2 is the only possible route,
3rd time typing allat
 
supertomioka said:
I am a tad bit late to the party but I wanted to give my thoughts and hopefully clear some miss conceptions
Firstly
the "contradiction" or anti feat for IZ ,Goku and co blocking IZ attack after he became HD. The thing is, IZ wasn’t aiming or targeting the attack at Goku and co he just wanted to level the planet. As seen here, he releases attacks simultaneously at different places throughout the entire planet to level it, and that’s it. If he was targeting the gang, why didn’t he continue spamming? Why did he stop after the planet was leveled?
I am trying to reason that since the attack aim was to surface wipe the planet, it didn’t need tier 2 AP to stop it, as he wasn’t targeting them in the first place. Heck, even Shin and Gowasu block these attacks from IZ would this be a tier 2 upscale for them?? No. Shin and Gowasu blocking these attacks, with my reasoning, proves or makes the intention more clear the attack was just meant to surface wipe, hence it isn’t an anti-feat.
Heck even Mai survives an energy attack from Goku Black in Episode 46, and this leveling the planet habit is common, since Goku Black, even with his potentially tier2 attacks, was just surface wiping
This statement of Zamasu fusing with just the universe is wrong and taken out of context. To put it simply, the use of “universe” there is a mistranslation. Even though it uses the kanji for universe 宇宙, in this context it didn’t literally just mean the U7 macrocosm. “Uchū” is context dependent and can mean the cosmos, timeline, world, or all of existence.
The dub makes this clear by outright saying “the whole cosmos.”
Now, in the sub it does say “universe,” so what’s the problem? Here’s the statement:
ザマスは、宇宙になろうとしているのかもしれん。
もはや神の形さえも捨てて、正義と秩序、そのものとなろうとしているのだ。
Funny enough they make the exact same mistake here
“Zeno is the most powerful god in the entire universe.”
全宇宙で一番偉い神様。その気になれば一瞬で宇宙を消し去ることができる力を持つ。かつて18あった宇宙は全王の手によって12まで減らされてしまったという。
This is obviously contradictory calling Zeno the strongest god in “the universe,” Clearly, “universe” here is shorthand for the entire cosmos not the macrocosm.
So, when Gowasu says
「ざ、ざ、ザマス…ザマスは宇宙そのものになるかもしれない。あ？彼は神聖なものすべてを捨て去り、正義と秩序そのものになろうとしている。」
it means becoming the entire world/timeline/cosmos/all of existence. The dub even supports this directly. Downplaying it as just U7 makes no sense whatsoever and the other points below makes it more clear.


Zeno didn’t just destroy U7 I say this not only because IZ was affecting the cosmos (which would require traversing the neutral zone to reach the entire cosmos) but also because if that were the case, then why wasn’t the backdrop of the timeline after erasure the neutral zone? The neutral zone backdrop has planets and galaxies, but this place didn’t. In fact, it was the exact same backdrop used to represent the World of Void, a place without time and space, I personally think this is how they represent timeless voids.
If you argue that Zeno only erased the neutral zone, then you run into the same problem as the whole 6D DB debate all over again.
Even the number of time rings at the end of the arc tells us Zeno erased the timeline. Why? Because initially there were only five time rings. Unlike the manga, where we explicitly see a time ring break due to Zeno erasure, in the anime we don’t see it break but one time ring was missing at the end of the arc. There were only six, not seven, when Gowasu checks.
I say seven because it’s stated by Beerus that Whis helping Trunks and Mai would create another time ring. Whis then reprimands Beerus, saying that he himself already created one. Since Whis helped Trunks again, one more time ring was made. Meaning if there were originally five, plus one from Beerus, plus another from Whis, there should have been seven. But we only see six, indicating a time ring was missing or more accurately, erased because of Zeno similar to his manga counterpart.
It’s important to make Zeno’s intentions clear so we can know if Zamasu did in fact complete his merging with the timeline.
In Episode 67, Goku asks Supreme Kai if the Zeno of this world would still be present:
あ...なっ、海王神さま！この世界の全王様って、まだいるんかな？
Key note here is the usage of “world.” Then later, Goku asks Zeno that this (referring to Zamasu) should be erased, with Zeno replying “this kind of world”:
消しちゃった方がいいんじゃねえか？
そうだね。こんな世界。
“World” here = multiverse, because it’s the same context as Goku’s earlier question.
Zeno’s response tells us his intentions: he was targeting the world, not Infinite Zamasu himself. Right before the erasure, Zeno states:
こんな世界、消えちゃえ！
“This kind of world should disappear.”
Even in the dub, Zeno blatantly says: “All of existence go away!”
Why this matters
Because if Zeno was targeting the world (timeline/multiverse) and not IZ directly, then this confirms Zamasu did in fact fuse with the timeline.

Now, if Zeno was targeting the world itself and erased the timeline, why was Zamasu erased too ? since he was already affecting other timelines?
ザマスだな。未来で何かあったな。それが現在にまで影響を及ぼしている。
Trunks and Mai escaped to the main timeline without being affected. So if Zamasu was not just only inside the timeline itself, but literally extended outside of it he should have survived. at least in the space between timelines. But he didn’t. Why? Because Zamasu was the timeline.
Zamasu = Timeline.
Erase the timeline → erase Zamasu, because Zamasu had become the timeline itself.
So once he had fused with this timeline, erasing it naturally erased him as well, even if parts of his presence stretched into others.
This alone is enough proof that IZ did fuse with the timeline.

So I was initially going for option 1 but with
this Option 2 is the only possible route,
3rd time typing allat
Click to expand...
Buddy read the thread title
 
supertomioka said:
I am a tad bit late to the party but I wanted to give my thoughts and hopefully clear some miss conceptions
Firstly
the "contradiction" or anti feat for IZ ,Goku and co blocking IZ attack after he became HD. The thing is, IZ wasn’t aiming or targeting the attack at Goku and co he just wanted to level the planet. As seen here, he releases attacks simultaneously at different places throughout the entire planet to level it, and that’s it. If he was targeting the gang, why didn’t he continue spamming? Why did he stop after the planet was leveled?
I am trying to reason that since the attack aim was to surface wipe the planet, it didn’t need tier 2 AP to stop it, as he wasn’t targeting them in the first place. Heck, even Shin and Gowasu block these attacks from IZ would this be a tier 2 upscale for them?? No. Shin and Gowasu blocking these attacks, with my reasoning, proves or makes the intention more clear the attack was just meant to surface wipe, hence it isn’t an anti-feat.
Heck even Mai survives an energy attack from Goku Black in Episode 46, and this leveling the planet habit is common, since Goku Black, even with his potentially tier2 attacks, was just surface wiping
This statement of Zamasu fusing with just the universe is wrong and taken out of context. To put it simply, the use of “universe” there is a mistranslation. Even though it uses the kanji for universe 宇宙, in this context it didn’t literally just mean the U7 macrocosm. “Uchū” is context dependent and can mean the cosmos, timeline, world, or all of existence.
The dub makes this clear by outright saying “the whole cosmos.”
Now, in the sub it does say “universe,” so what’s the problem? Here’s the statement:
ザマスは、宇宙になろうとしているのかもしれん。
もはや神の形さえも捨てて、正義と秩序、そのものとなろうとしているのだ。
Funny enough they make the exact same mistake here
“Zeno is the most powerful god in the entire universe.”
全宇宙で一番偉い神様。その気になれば一瞬で宇宙を消し去ることができる力を持つ。かつて18あった宇宙は全王の手によって12まで減らされてしまったという。
This is obviously contradictory calling Zeno the strongest god in “the universe,” Clearly, “universe” here is shorthand for the entire cosmos not the macrocosm.
So, when Gowasu says
「ざ、ざ、ザマス…ザマスは宇宙そのものになるかもしれない。あ？彼は神聖なものすべてを捨て去り、正義と秩序そのものになろうとしている。」
it means becoming the entire world/timeline/cosmos/all of existence. The dub even supports this directly. Downplaying it as just U7 makes no sense whatsoever and the other points below makes it more clear.


Zeno didn’t just destroy U7 I say this not only because IZ was affecting the cosmos (which would require traversing the neutral zone to reach the entire cosmos) but also because if that were the case, then why wasn’t the backdrop of the timeline after erasure the neutral zone? The neutral zone backdrop has planets and galaxies, but this place didn’t. In fact, it was the exact same backdrop used to represent the World of Void, a place without time and space, I personally think this is how they represent timeless voids.
If you argue that Zeno only erased the neutral zone, then you run into the same problem as the whole 6D DB debate all over again.
Even the number of time rings at the end of the arc tells us Zeno erased the timeline. Why? Because initially there were only five time rings. Unlike the manga, where we explicitly see a time ring break due to Zeno erasure, in the anime we don’t see it break but one time ring was missing at the end of the arc. There were only six, not seven, when Gowasu checks.
I say seven because it’s stated by Beerus that Whis helping Trunks and Mai would create another time ring. Whis then reprimands Beerus, saying that he himself already created one. Since Whis helped Trunks again, one more time ring was made. Meaning if there were originally five, plus one from Beerus, plus another from Whis, there should have been seven. But we only see six, indicating a time ring was missing or more accurately, erased because of Zeno similar to his manga counterpart.
It’s important to make Zeno’s intentions clear so we can know if Zamasu did in fact complete his merging with the timeline.
In Episode 67, Goku asks Supreme Kai if the Zeno of this world would still be present:
あ...なっ、海王神さま！この世界の全王様って、まだいるんかな？
Key note here is the usage of “world.” Then later, Goku asks Zeno that this (referring to Zamasu) should be erased, with Zeno replying “this kind of world”:
消しちゃった方がいいんじゃねえか？
そうだね。こんな世界。
“World” here = multiverse, because it’s the same context as Goku’s earlier question.
Zeno’s response tells us his intentions: he was targeting the world, not Infinite Zamasu himself. Right before the erasure, Zeno states:
こんな世界、消えちゃえ！
“This kind of world should disappear.”
Even in the dub, Zeno blatantly says: “All of existence go away!”
Why this matters
Because if Zeno was targeting the world (timeline/multiverse) and not IZ directly, then this confirms Zamasu did in fact fuse with the timeline.

Now, if Zeno was targeting the world itself and erased the timeline, why was Zamasu erased too ? since he was already affecting other timelines?
ザマスだな。未来で何かあったな。それが現在にまで影響を及ぼしている。
Trunks and Mai escaped to the main timeline without being affected. So if Zamasu was not just only inside the timeline itself, but literally extended outside of it he should have survived. at least in the space between timelines. But he didn’t. Why? Because Zamasu was the timeline.
Zamasu = Timeline.
Erase the timeline → erase Zamasu, because Zamasu had become the timeline itself.
So once he had fused with this timeline, erasing it naturally erased him as well, even if parts of his presence stretched into others.
This alone is enough proof that IZ did fuse with the timeline.

So I was initially going for option 1 but with
this Option 2 is the only possible route,
3rd time typing allat
Click to expand...
Banger response ngl, you cooked.
 
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