All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[JustANormalPerson01]

That's not how it works in DB, because in that case time on Planet Namek, Earth and other planets in the mortal world wouldn't flow at the same time via time delation in Einstein's TOR(that wouldn't happen only if planets are SUPER close to each other or if time in DB's mortal world flows the same way on every planet+we know that DB's physics works not the same way as ours because Bulma could talk with Master Roshi by the phone while being light years away from Earth)

Dude, it's not that deep. The time a day takes in a planet has no relationship to Einstein's Theory of Relativity, just to —as I have already said— the time it needs to rotate on its axis once. That is literally the definition of day, stop overanalizing things.

No, both Afterlife and Mortal world exist in timeline via it they exist at the same moment. The same thing we saw with World of Void which was stated to lack time and space, but people from the universe 2 could see what happen in the World of Void while being in their universe.

WoV lacked time previous to the ToP creation, after the ToP it has time. The main plot of the ToP is that the time left is limited so universes have to hurry and eliminate the other before the timer ends. We also see characters warp space and control time throughout the entire ToP, like Hit or Anilaza.

 

[Hecky2222]

Don't listen to haters. It's blatant 1-A

 

[Killerdrone123]

Ah it's time for annual higher D afterlife talks

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Ah it's time for annual 1-A afterlife talks

 Fixed

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The freshman needs to calm down about things in Class 1-A, that's never going to happen.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Dude, it's not that deep. The time a day takes in a planet has no relationship to Einstein's Theory of Relativity, just to —as I have already said— the time it needs to rotate on its axis once. That is literally the definition of day, stop overanalizing things.

Um, it's still not the same in DB. Namek was established to has 130 days and those days are the same as on Earth, the difference is in the number, not in the time. Or do you think it's a coincedence that Namek has exactly 24 hours in a day to fit in the same time as 130 days on Earth perfectly?

WoV lacked time previous to the ToP creation, after the ToP it has time. The main plot of the ToP is that the time left is limited so universes have to hurry and eliminate the other before the timer ends. We also see characters warp space and control time throughout the entire ToP, like Hit or Anilaza.

There are no statements saying that WoV gained time and space after the start of the tournament, so we still consider it time and spaceless after in ToP on wiki, which plays a role in haxes. Those statements could lead to timeline, which is also fate, probability,etc. as WoV existed in timeline before ToP as we know from xenoverse

 

[Mgebrat282]

The freshman needs to calm down about things in Class 1-A, that's never going to happen.

First: Why?
Second: Did you read the blog?

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Namek was established to has 130 days and those days are the same as on Earth, the difference is in the number, not in the time.

Or maybe the narrator was talking the time in Earth terms so the reader could understand?

Also, how do you even know this is not the case in Dragon Ball? You are purposing that the word "days" has a different definition in Dragon Ball than what it has IRL with nothing to back it up.

There are no statements saying that WoV gained time and space after the start of the tournament, so we still consider it time and spaceless after in ToP on wiki, which plays a role in haxes. Those statements could lead to timeline, which is also fate, probability,etc. as WoV existed in timeline before ToP as we know from xenoverse

And this is yet another case of Dragon Ball trying to have the cake and eat it too. Grand Priest has Space and Time manipulation for giving WoV the aspects of Space and Time, which makes sense because you can't tell time in a timeless place and you can't warp space in a spaceless place —which we've seen in the WoV happen, and feats take precedence over guidebook statements for obvious reasons—. Yet at the same time you have characters with NPI for interacting with a supposed spaceless and timeless void that is argued to have gained space and time  before they interacted with it.

Also, isn't that thing in the scan the ToP arena, which we see GP created? So it cannot be there if the ToP wasn't at least being prepared to be made.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

First: Why?
Second: Did you read the blog?

Because it doesn't make sense, look at what you're writing, man. This thing about the afterlife being 1-A isn't happening according to the Wiki; the afterlife should only be 5D no maximum.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Or maybe the narrator was talking the time in Earth terms so the reader could understand?

Also, how do you even know this is not the case in Dragon Ball? You are purposing that the word "days" has a different definition in Dragon Ball than what it has IRL with nothing to back it up.

Days in dragonball are established as for our days. Like when Goku swimmed from one point of the Earth to another, the days before Tenkaichi Budokai start, etc. Even on Namek such term used in corelation with days on planet Earth.

And this is yet another case of Dragon Ball trying to have the cake and eat it too. Grand Priest has Space and Time manipulation for giving WoV the aspects of Space and Time, which makes sense because you can't tell time in a timeless place and you can't warp space in a spaceless place —which we've seen in the WoV happen, and feats take precedence over guidebook statements for obvious reasons—. Yet at the same time you have characters with NPI for interacting with a supposed spaceless and timeless void that is argued to have gained space and time  before they interacted with it.

Well, for Grand Priest it's possibly, meaning it was never established really. And why would they give Beerus such statement about WoV not having time and space just to give it time and space, making this moment such a waste of time, which it shouldn't be as it like an explanation about the WoV for Goku and viewers

Also, isn't that thing in the scan the ToP arena, which we see GP created? So it cannot be there if the ToP wasn't at least being prepared to be made.

It still establishes that WoV existed in history/time rift before ToP, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Because it doesn't make sense, look at what you're writing, man. This thing about the afterlife being 1-A isn't happening according to the Wiki; the afterlife should only be 5D no maximum.

You still didn't tell me why it's not possible to have 1-A Aftelife. Write where I was wrong

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Those are more add on statements, when the main thing is shockwave moment. Also the first one talks about the scale, not just the separation, and the second one depends on the person's interpretation as the translator said
["Transcends dimensions" in original 次元を超越した天の国 can be interpreted by many ways: Word 次元 can mean "dimensionality" in mathematical way, or dimension( length, width, height). But it has third meaning: "point of view", "perspective". 次元を超越した天の国 - "transcends point of view", if literally. Probably, it means it's a place that is impossible to see/understand from human world. But why is unclear. Either it's something with dimensionality or it just can't be perceived cuz it's beyond human comprehension"]

Bulma's Time Machine "transcends time". The Subspace "transcends space and time". Pop quiz!

1. Is Bulma's Time Machine 4D, or does her Time Machine separate itself from the timeline?
2. Is the Subspace 4D, or does the Subspace exist separated from the space and time of the universe?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

You still didn't tell me why it's not possible to have 1-A Aftelife. Write where I was wrong

Dude, look at your arguments, they don't make sense, and even I, a DB fan, don't think they're true. Why would I buy into a 1-A? Especially since the cosmology is already at level 1.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Y'know something's up when even Luffy disagrees with it. That guy'll agree with anything even remotely resembling an upgrade.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Days in dragonball are established as for our days. Like when Goku swimmed from one point of the Earth to another, the days before Tenkaichi Budokai start, etc.

Of course our Days would be the one used for potraying the amount of time that has passed on Earth, bruh. This isn't even an argument

Even on Namek such term used in corelation with days on planet Earth.

Your statement does not show that Namekians used planet Earth's days to talk about their days, rather that the Namekian Dragon Balls have a recharge time of just 130 days. The narrator statement was made on Earth, btw.

Hell, even if Otherworld had arguments to be 1-A, there are enough anti-feats of it. From the top of my head:

• Wishing Dragons like Shenron being capable of affecting souls resident on the Otherworld (they need to do so to revive people).
• Goku teleporting on Cell Saga to Kaio-Sama planet with Cell, meaning he locked Ki of Kaio-Sama from the living world (anti-feat of qualitative superiority. 1-A energy cannot divide itself to be part of the lower world), accessed it without 1-A help, and Cell's explosion –a being who is below 1-A– caused significant damage and killed (supposed) 1-A beings.
• All instances of the Genkidama where otherworld people participated, like in the Buu saga. If they were 1-A, their energy wouldn't be able to flow through a lower world, and would've destroyed non-1-A beings like Buu
• The Otherworld being contained in a timeline which is affected by time travel from non-1-A beings like Trunks
• Frieza refused to repent in a Soul form, so Yenma needed to trap him in a hell instead of following the average reincarnation.

And that's without even entering with the obviously wrong statements like Time not existing in the otherworld (which was discussed before several times. Most obvious arguments being Whis' Time Rewind reviving people from Earth, for which he'd need to affect the Otherworld, or the endless times where characters needed to hurry because they have little time to train before a villain arrives), or objects in the otherworld being non-physical when we have literal planets with gravity, Goku was gifted a physical body to be there, the snake way having length, Kaio-Sama giving Goku 40kg weights to train, etc.

Not to mention the arguments are really vague and stretching/overanalyzing things:

There are some statements about time and distance measurements in Afterlife, however in Buu saga it was stated that time measurement is made by Mortal worlds time

Nowhere it is mentioned that time measurement is made by Mortal worlds time, but that a certain tournament is to take place in a certain amount of Earth's days. Doesn't make sense for all characters to use Earth's day system when most of them don't even know what Earth is —see Frieza & Cold or Vegeta & Nappa arriving to Earth at first—.

As what about distance, it can has one because those distances are litarally less than a drop of water in comparison to Afterlife, even if it's infinite universal scale(Heaven).

Encompassing an infinite realm to the point it cannot be seen is not enough for a (N+1)-D, let alone 1-A.

And well, let's better not start talking about how "the afterlife wasn't affected" is wrong because of the several statements of the entire U7 being at stake, how it'd be reduced to empty nothingness and no one would survive, how the same shockwaves didn't destroy the Kai realm despite it being outside of the macrocosm and travelling said infinite distance instantly. Or how a shockwave travelling "infinite" (it isn't really infinite, but whatever) distance growing stronger the more it travels isn't enough for it to reach a High 1-B+ AP, which is what your blog is implying.

Hell, if Otherworld wasn't affected by Goku and Beerus shockwaves you'd end up downgrading BoG from 3 to 2 universes instead

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Umm...can you atleast say where am I wrong in the blog?

I'm 99,9% certain that regular beings can't exist in a legit 1-A space, so Goku, the Kais, all dead people in the universe hanging around there along other fellas who have went there is already a massive anti-feat

 

[SageOfReason]

While I am not that experienced when it comes tiers low 1-A and above, I do know that in order to qualify for low 1-A, merely stating that 'x transcends all dimensions' is insufficient. You'd need to prove that 'x' can affect a structure that emcompasses all transfinite-dimensional spaces, meaning that all ordinal dimensions are accounted for.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Bulma's Time Machine "transcends time". The Subspace "transcends space and time". Pop quiz!

1. Is Bulma's Time Machine 4D, or does her Time Machine separate itself from the timeline?
2. Is the Subspace 4D, or does the Subspace exist separated from the space and time of the universe?

Why you didn't address the shockwave? Also it depends on the interpretation(the second one, also I don't remember it being stated). Was "transcend time" in the first being a thing in original japanese moment? Show kanji

 

[Mgebrat282]

I'm 99,9% certain that regular beings can't exist in a legit 1-A space, so Goku, the Kais, all dead people in the universe hanging around there along other fellas who have went there is already a massive anti-feat

Why you don't read my blog or don't read it properly? I already addres that in it
[Some might ask, how people from other world can enter Afterlife and leave it? The answer is in Daizenshu and Chozenshu.

Afterlife can be visited by dead people and those who has permission from the Afterlife. But even if you don't has permission and enter the Afterlife via Shunkan Ido or Kai Kai, you still bypass the barrier, which makes your existence simillar to soul(the same thing probably happens with those who has permission) as it's shown here:

Scan

Translation:

Title: THE WORLD AFTER DEATH (Scheme 3)

This world (The World of the Living - the lower part)

All living beings:The lower circle on the scheme.

Process: When a living being dies, it becomes a soul and goes to the World of Enma, which is located in the Otherworld.

Transition:An upward arrow with the text "Become souls."

Judgment in the Palace (Center)

As it shows how by traveling in the Afterlife and bypassing the barrier(wave thing) the person's existence becomes like soul's, as it comes from the Mortal world, which is shown flat(2D), to Afterlife, which is shown as 3D objects in contrast to Mortal World]

 

[Mgebrat282]

Dude, look at your arguments, they don't make sense, and even I, a DB fan, don't think they're true. Why would I buy into a 1-A? Especially since the cosmology is already at level 1.

Tell me where they don't make sense, please. I asked for constructive analysis. Also, bruh, 1-C vs 1-A

 

[Dust_Collector]

Translation:

Title: THE WORLD AFTER DEATH (Scheme 3)

This world (The World of the Living - the lower part)

All living beings:The lower circle on the scheme.

Process: When a living being dies, it becomes a soul and goes to the World of Enma, which is located in the Otherworld.

Transition:An upward arrow with the text "Become souls."

Judgment in the Palace (Center)

As it shows how by traveling in the Afterlife and bypassing the barrier(wave thing) the person's existence becomes like soul's, as it comes from the Mortal world, which is shown flat(2D), to Afterlife, which is shown as 3D objects in contrast to Mortal World]

All it's showing is that when people die they become souls, it doesn't say anyone who goes to the afterlife even if alive gains a soul-like existence just by entering.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

That doesn't even make sense. Souls in DB are will-o'-wisp-like things, and characters can go there without attaining said form via IT like in the Cell Saga.

 

[Mgebrat282]

Hell, even if Otherworld had arguments to be 1-A, there are enough anti-feats of it. From the top of my head:

• Wishing Dragons like Shenron being capable of affecting souls resident on the Otherworld (they need to do so to revive people).
• Goku teleporting on Cell Saga to Kaio-Sama planet with Cell, meaning he locked Ki of Kaio-Sama from the living world (anti-feat of qualitative superiority. 1-A energy cannot divide itself to be part of the lower world), accessed it without 1-A help, and Cell's explosion –a being who is below 1-A– caused significant damage and killed (supposed) 1-A beings.
• All instances of the Genkidama where otherworld people participated, like in the Buu saga. If they were 1-A, their energy wouldn't be able to flow through a lower world, and would've destroyed non-1-A beings like Buu
• The Otherworld being contained in a timeline which is affected by time travel from non-1-A beings like Trunks
• Frieza refused to repent in a Soul form, so Yenma needed to trap him in a hell instead of following the average reincarnation.

What do you mean "if had"? I already showed some and you didn't even argued most of them. Heck, you didn't say a thing even about the one I base qualitive superiority on
First: Shenron can't actually manipulate souls, as he wasn't able to do so in Fusion Reborn movie, saying that Enma controls them
Second: Again... I already address that and you didn't say a thing about it
[Some might ask, how people from other world can enter Afterlife and leave it? The answer is in Daizenshu and Chozenshu.

Afterlife can be visited by dead people and those who has permission from the Afterlife. But even if you don't has permission and enter the Afterlife via Shunkan Ido or Kai Kai, you still bypass the barrier, which makes your existence simillar to soul(the same thing probably happens with those who has permission) as it's shown here:

Scan

Translation:

Title: THE WORLD AFTER DEATH (Scheme 3)

This world (The World of the Living - the lower part)

All living beings:The lower circle on the scheme.

Process: When a living being dies, it becomes a soul and goes to the World of Enma, which is located in the Otherworld.

Transition:An upward arrow with the text "Become souls."

Judgment in the Palace (Center)

As it shows how by traveling in the Afterlife and bypassing the barrier(wave thing) the person's existence becomes like soul's, as it comes from the Mortal world, which is shown flat(2D), to Afterlife, which is shown as 3D objects in contrast to Mortal World]
Third:It happened only in Buu saga and Buu was stated in several guides being able to destroy the Universe and stronger than highest gods, so it's kinda weird to think he would be weaker than average Afterlife beings. And ki from Afterlife flew from the Afterlife to Kaioshin realm, which is even more durable than it and comparable to it in size, so yeah...also about ki flowing from Afterlife see the second and this "Furthermore, since the "lack of continuity" that exists between the higher level and the lower one is structural, and not causal, there can potentially be more unorthodox ways of bypassing the 1-A barrier. For example: Things that don't have anything to do with raw power, but just a general transfer/exposure of information between one level and another. Another example could be cosmologies where a higher level originates from the thoughts/beliefs/etc of inhabitants of a lower level; while these thoughts literally originating within the lower reality and then somehow "floating away" to form a higher one would be a disqualifier, no anti-feat is present if the verse has it so these operations simply already exist in a higher reality."
Forth:Timeline contains WoV which is already timeless and spaceless world and timeline changes affect it too, so time travel(they travel in timeline all the time) changes timeline and everything in it
FIfth:That's not how it was. In DBS hell people need to say they are sorry for their sins, so they can live in hell peacefully, but Frieza is a die hard

And that's without even entering with the obviously wrong statements like Time not existing in the otherworld (which was discussed before several times. Most obvious arguments being Whis' Time Rewind reviving people from Earth, for which he'd need to affect the Otherworld, or the endless times where characters needed to hurry because they have little time to train before a villain arrives), or objects in the otherworld being non-physical when we have literal planets with gravity, Goku was gifted a physical body to be there, the snake way having length, Kaio-Sama giving Goku 40kg weights to train, etc.

Whis could revind timeline, not just time. We can downgrade the same way that Aftelife and Mortal world are two separate space-times, because Whis revinding time didn't revind timeline but only time, meaning there is only one space-time for them. About time moment...we already discuss this about WoV several moments ago, didn't we? And in Daizenshu 6 it was stated that alive Goku attained physical body, meaning he didn't had one before(in blog)

Encompassing an infinite realm to the point it cannot be seen is not enough for a (N+1)-D, let alone 1-A.I

I wasn't trying to scale it by that...

And well, let's better not start talking about how "the afterlife wasn't affected" is wrong because of the several statements of the entire U7 being at stake, how it'd be reduced to empty nothingness and no one would survive, how the same shockwaves didn't destroy the Kai realm despite it being outside of the macrocosm and travelling said infinite distance instantly. Or how a shockwave travelling "infinite" (it isn't really infinite, but whatever) distance growing stronger the more it travels isn't enough for it to reach a High 1-B+ AP, which is what your blog is implying.

Shockwaves with each punch was getting stronger. If you look close, from the first punch nothing was destroyed, after the second one planets in mortal world was destroyed and after the third one everything would be destroyed, which is stated by Kaioshin. The shockwave didn't do a thing to a Kaioshin realm. It traveled infinite distance only in the mortal world and we don't know the real distance between Afterlife and Mortal world, when the main was to show that even multipliting by itself won't let reach the Afterlife.

Hell, if Otherworld wasn't affected by Goku and Beerus shockwaves you'd end up downgrading BoG from 3 to 2 universes instead

How and why? And you already tried to downgrade macrocosmos just to Low 2-C, seriously?

 

[Mgebrat282]

That doesn't even make sense. Souls in DB are will-o'-wisp-like things, and characters can go there without attaining said form via IT like in the Cell Saga.

Um, no. In DBZ souls were shown even as average humans

 

[Mgebrat282]

All it's showing is that when people die they become souls, it doesn't say anyone who goes to the afterlife even if alive gains a soul-like existence just by entering.

Well, it shows how an object by traveling though a barrier became more...complex? As it shows mortal world as flat(2D object) and Aftelife as 3 dimensional objects. Otherwise I don't see explanation why they make an arrow to aftelife with wave thing (that kinda lays with a barrier existence) and make Afterlife 3 dimenional object while showing mortal world as 2D

 

[RoninSlayer200]

What makes you think 1-A is gonna get accepted when Low 1-C, with better arguments, got rejected? Where is this confidence coming from?

 

[KaramcaS]

Youve written about 50 dozen things but no matter how much I look I cant find a single decent 1-A argument there

It's undeniable that the afterlife is Low 1-C 5-D. We need to address that first

 

[KaramcaS]

Dragon Ball Lifting Strength Revision

Class T? Meant Class M my bad lol

vsbattles.com

They're going to throw away all the Feats and Calculations, buying only the statements, and on top of that, treat Magetta's comedy scene as an anti-feat. Their Project are progressing successfully

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Afterlife can be visited by dead people and those who has permission from the Afterlife. But even if you don't has permission and enter the Afterlife via Shunkan Ido or Kai Kai, you still bypass the barrier, which makes your existence simillar to soul(the same thing probably happens with those who has permission) as it's shown here:

Scan

Translation:

Title: THE WORLD AFTER DEATH (Scheme 3)

This world (The World of the Living - the lower part)

All living beings:The lower circle on the scheme.

Process: When a living being dies, it becomes a soul and goes to the World of Enma, which is located in the Otherworld.

Transition:An upward arrow with the text "Become souls."

Judgment in the Palace (Center)

Read the bolded part.

As it shows how by traveling in the Afterlife and bypassing the barrier(wave thing) the person's existence becomes like soul's, as it comes from the Mortal world, which is shown flat(2D), to Afterlife, which is shown as 3D objects in contrast to Mortal World]

Leaving aside that there isn't a single flat object on the image, just a taller or shorter parallelepipid, your very scan is describing the process when a living being dies, not when anyone tries to travel to the afterlife.

Third:It happened only in Buu saga and Buu was stated in several guides being able to destroy the Universe and stronger than highest gods, so it's kinda weird to think he would be weaker than average Afterlife beings.

So, contradiction with 1-A. A non-1-A cannot reach the level of 1-A by their own. Buu was created in the demon realm, which mirrors the living universe, so isn't 1-A.

And ki from Afterlife flew from the Afterlife to Kaioshin realm, which is even more durable than it and comparable to it in size, so yeah...

Kaioshin realm, which is specifically not spiritual, not transcendental, with physical matter, with planets, where living beings can exist without a change in quality? That'd also disprove 1-A afterlife.

also about ki flowing from Afterlife see the second and this "Furthermore, since the "lack of continuity" that exists between the higher level and the lower one is structural, and not causal, there can potentially be more unorthodox ways of bypassing the 1-A barrier. For example: Things that don't have anything to do with raw power, but just a general transfer/exposure of information between one level and another. Another example could be cosmologies where a higher level originates from the thoughts/beliefs/etc of inhabitants of a lower level; while these thoughts literally originating within the lower reality and then somehow "floating away" to form a higher one would be a disqualifier, no anti-feat is present if the verse has it so these operations simply already exist in a higher reality."

Not the case of Dragon Ball.

Forth:Timeline contains WoV which is already timeless and spaceless world and timeline changes affect it too, so time travel(they travel in timeline all the time) changes timeline and everything in it

So, another anti-feat for 1-A. A non-1-A being is, by its own, causing change on a supposed 1-A realm (travelling in time and causing it to divide in 2 different timelines).

Whis could revind timeline, not just time.

Whis explicitely reverses time

We can downgrade the same way that Aftelife and Mortal world are two separate space-times, because Whis revinding time didn't revind timeline but only time, meaning there is only one space-time for them.

Ok, go do it.

About time moment...we already discuss this about WoV several moments ago, didn't we? And in Daizenshu 6 it was stated that alive Goku attained physical body, meaning he didn't had one before(in blog)

Yeah, sure? Goku was granted a physical body in the afterlife, and could interact with physical things, touch physical planets and weight, etc. Disproving everything being spiritual.

Shockwaves with each punch was getting stronger. If you look close, from the first punch nothing was destroyed, after the second one planets in mortal world was destroyed and after the third one everything would be destroyed, which is stated by Kaioshin. The shockwave didn't do a thing to a Kaioshin realm. It traveled infinite distance only in the mortal world and we don't know the real distance between Afterlife and Mortal world, when the main was to show that even multipliting by itself won't let reach the Afterlife.

Still no proof of 1-A afterlife.

How and why? And you already tried to downgrade macrocosmos just to Low 2-C, seriously?

When did I say I tried to downgrade macrocosm to Low 2-C? I just said that, going by your own line of thought of the Afterlife not being affected by the punches, then Goku and Beerus will have their universes downgraded from 3 to 2 because your own logic claims they won't affected the afterlife.

Um, no. In DBZ souls were shown even as average humans

Filler. Canonically only worthy people mantains their body in the otherworld.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Well, it shows how an object by traveling though a barrier became more...complex? As it shows mortal world as flat(2D object)

"2-D object"

 

[Mgebrat282]

What makes you think 1-A is gonna get accepted when Low 1-C, with better arguments, got rejected? Where is this confidence coming from?

Lack of time and space with qualitive superiority? Also what arguments that were?

 

[AyOgUyS]

Lack of time and space with qualitive superiority? Also what arguments that were?

Lacking space and time is on its own not 1-A or any tier at all

 

[Mgebrat282]

So, contradiction with 1-A. A non-1-A cannot reach the level of 1-A by their own. Buu was created in the demon realm, which mirrors the living universe, so isn't 1-A.

The source of Buu's power wasn't the demon realm On the matter of power sources: That would depend on the nature of the power source itself. For example, a common trope in fiction is power sources that, so to speak, are "for the taking," meaning they are naturally self-diffusive and don't offer any resistance whatsoever to being tapped into, as being utilized in such a way is in their nature. Drawing power from such sources is obviously not actually an anti-feat for them being 1-A, especially so if they are depicted as naturally connected to, and united with, the beings that tap into them.

Kaioshin realm, which is specifically not spiritual, not transcendental, with physical matter, with planets, where living beings can exist without a change in quality? That'd also disprove 1-A afterlife.

Where all of that was stated for Kaioshin realm? Escepcially that it's not physical. If character can interact with object doesn't automatically mean it's not non-physical

Not the case of Dragon Ball.

Why?

So, another anti-feat for 1-A. A non-1-A being is, by its own, causing change on a supposed 1-A realm (travelling in time and causing it to divide in 2 different timelines).

It's just how the world works, specifically the time travel, there is no anti feat as the non 1-A being affecting 1-A realm by its own, just the realm doing it by its own

Whis explicitely reverses time

Time can sometime mean timeline as in other case he would just reverse mortal world's time and it won't affect Afterlife even in the current cosmology state

Ok, go do it.

Why?

Yeah, sure? Goku was granted a physical body in the afterlife, and could interact with physical things, touch physical planets and weight, etc. Disproving everything being spiritual.

Proof that they are physical in Aftelife? Again, we saw the same look as Goku on other souls and they are described as non physical

Still no proof of 1-A afterlife.

It's a prove for qualitive superiority above the mortal world, which plays with lack of time and space for Afterlife, making it not BDE type 1, but type 3

When did I say I tried to downgrade macrocosm to Low 2-C? I just said that, going by your own line of thought of the Afterlife not being affected by the punches, then Goku and Beerus will have their universes downgraded from 3 to 2 because your own logic claims they won't affected the afterlife.

You tried to do so by not right interpretation of Whis's moment. And wouldn't the shockwave moment upscale the Afterlife anyway by this point and Goku with Beerus as it was said everything would be destroyed after the third punch?

Filler. Canonically only worthy people mantains their body in the otherworld.

In manga we saw that in Heaven souls have bodies, even in the first chapter Afterlife was introduced, we knew that Raditz had a body in it as he needed to get calmed down by Emma

 

[Mgebrat282]

"2-D object"

Flat objects are ussually representate 2-D objects as here(on the second page we see that 2-D objects are not fully flat, but they are 2-D):

 

[Mgebrat282]

Lacking space and time is on its own not 1-A or any tier at all

I know, so I tried to give a qualitive superiority with the shockwave moment

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

The source of Buu's power wasn't the demon realm On the matter of power sources: That would depend on the nature of the power source itself. For example, a common trope in fiction is power sources that, so to speak, are "for the taking," meaning they are naturally self-diffusive and don't offer any resistance whatsoever to being tapped into, as being utilized in such a way is in their nature. Drawing power from such sources is obviously not actually an anti-feat for them being 1-A, especially so if they are depicted as naturally connected to, and united with, the beings that tap into them.

So Buu's power is 1-A? Then you have way more contradictions, like the Genkidama using the energy of average humans to defeat Buu, Babidi needing non-1-A energy to unseal Buu (or non-1-A people sealing Buu), Buu getting stronger by absorbing non-1-A characters, Uub's body being capable of maintaining the majority of Buu's power, Goku reaching Buu's level with a 4x amp (SSJ3).

And if you claim any of they are 1-A, you'd have even more Anti-Feats. I literally could go all the way back to classic DB with Anti-Feats of 1-A if you claim X character has 1-A power.

Where all of that was stated for Kaioshin realm? Escepcially that it's not physical. If character can interact with object doesn't automatically mean it's not non-physical.

I literally said that the Kaioshin realm is physical. Just pointing out that if the Kaioshin realm is comparable to the afterlife, then the afterlife isn't 1-A because the Kaioshin realm isn't

Why?

Do I really need to answer why the verse where characters are characterized to overcome any difficulty by increasing their raw power and kame hame ha'ing the way out of any villain does not qualify to "a lack of continuity that isn't based in power but in exposure to the higher level"?

It's just how the world works, specifically the time travel, there is no anti feat as the non 1-A being affecting 1-A realm by its own, just the realm doing it by its own.

The realm doesn't do anything by its own. Time travelling is forbidden because changes in the past branch timelines, not because timelines suddenly feel like branching.

Trunks is, objectively, the cause of the branching of the timelines, so an anti-feat.

Time can sometime mean timeline as in other case he would just reverse mortal world's time and it won't affect Afterlife even in the current cosmology state

"Time must mean what I want it to mean because otherwise it would contradict what I want to propose"

Why?

"Why would I go doing what I said that we should do?"

Proof that they are physical in Aftelife?

Mass, planets, gravity, Goku attaining physical body, the Snake Way having length, Goku eating clouds, Goku training with heavy weight... seriously, are you being ignorant here?

Again, we saw the same look as Goku on other souls and they are described as non physical

Goku's body is physical. He can interact with average humans, touch the Earth, doesn't phase, etc. With his body.

It's a prove for qualitive superiority above the mortal world, which plays with lack of time and space for Afterlife, making it not BDE type 1, but type 3

No, it isn't. You have not presented any valid proof of 1-A afterlife.

You tried to do so by not right interpretation of Whis's moment. And wouldn't the shockwave moment upscale the Afterlife anyway by this point and Goku with Beerus as it was said everything would be destroyed after the third punch?

"Everything" would include the afterlife. So, no.

In manga we saw that in Heaven souls have bodies,

Are you sure we've read the same manga?

even in the first chapter Afterlife was introduced, we knew that Raditz had a body in it as he needed to get calmed down by Emma

Nowhere it is stated Raditz had a body. Hell, the fact he doesn't have a body is (wrongly) used as proof of resistance to Soul Manipulation for Ki users.

Flat objects are ussually representate 2-D objects as here(on the second page we see that 2-D objects are not fully flat, but they are 2-D):

The object you showed isn't potrayed as flat. I literally pointed the 3 dimensions of it.

And even if it was flat, the afterlife being potrayed as 3-D while the Living Universe is potrayed as 2-D is still a disqualifier for 1-A, given between the 2 realms there shall be a lack of continuity, not a difference of 1 dimension.

Anyway, I'm finishing this discussion here. So feel free to discuss it with anyone else if they want to

 

[AyOgUyS]

1-A Dragon Ball makes no sense whatsoever when the series heavily relies on physical multipliers and measurable tiers of power.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

So Buu's power is 1-A?

Tier 0 cause Buu was stated to be omnipotent

 

[Mgebrat282]

So Buu's power is 1-A? Then you have way more contradictions, like the Genkidama using the energy of average humans to defeat Buu, Babidi needing non-1-A energy to unseal Buu (or non-1-A people sealing Buu), Buu getting stronger by absorbing non-1-A characters, Uub's body being capable of maintaining the majority of Buu's power, Goku reaching Buu's level with a 4x amp (SSJ3).

The energy of the entire macrocosmos

Do I really need to answer why the verse where characters are characterized to overcome any difficulty by increasing their raw power and kame hame ha'ing the way out of any villain does not qualify to "a lack of continuity that isn't based in power but in exposure to the higher level"?

Yeah, why not?

The realm doesn't do anything by its own. Time travelling is forbidden because changes in the past branch timelines, not because timelines suddenly feel like branching.

By this logic any time travel can be scaled to timelines which isn't true

"Time must mean what I want it to mean because otherwise it would contradict what I want to propose"

You still didn't adress that it would contradict even the current cosmology as well

No, it isn't. You have not presented any valid proof of 1-A afterlife.

Okay, so you know how "valid proof of 1-A Aftelife" should like. Can you tell me?

"Everything" would include the afterlife. So, no.

What no? Upscaling Afterlife or what?

Are you sure we've read the same manga?

Yeah, I'm sure

Nowhere it is stated Raditz had a body. Hell, the fact he doesn't have a body is (wrongly) used as proof of resistance to Soul Manipulation for Ki users.

If you apply he was ghost form, then how he should make a mess if he couldn't do that by your logic?

The object you showed isn't potrayed as flat. I literally pointed the 3 dimensions of it.

Look at a piece of paper, is it flat?

And even if it was flat, the afterlife being potrayed as 3-D while the Living Universe is potrayed as 2-D is still a disqualifier for 1-A, given between the 2 realms there shall be a lack of continuity, not a difference of 1 dimension.

Well, no. Because it could just portay that Afterlife is qualitivly surperior to Mortal world, no?

 

[Dust_Collector]

It might be time to leave the kitchen, you ain't cooking with these 1-A arguments.