All Might vs Star and Stripe: I'm bored [0-0-0]

[Mickey1940]

Well, you’re absolutely right in the sense that it was implied it’d work, but it has no bearing on All Might. Because the limit isn’t physical—It’s “Life Power.” While there isn’t a cap on incapacitation, specifically, there is seemingly in the method of doing so. As ShigAFO notes. He even goes so fast as to say it might be possible, but less effective

you contradicted yourself with the link you sent

You admit yourself that there's no cap when it comes to incapacitation, meaning incapacitation on All Might, who is comparable to if not slightly weaker than Incomplete Shiggy, will still work, except that the method of doing so might be less effective
However, if you look closely at what he's actually saying:

"Judging from the fact that she didn't say: 'If he touches the air within this set range, he dies', one assumes that the new rule can't arbitrarily involve things she hasn't touched, just through roundabout wording, or perhaps she could make such a rule, but it would be less effective"

What he's saying is that Star could potentially impose rules on something she HASN'T touched if they touch things she HAS touched, but it might be less effective

However, for the things she HAS touched, she can do whatever the f*ck she wants

Point being, Star has a limit in her ability to affect living things—New Order works specifically flawlessly on the non living, due to “her one sided understanding enforcing the rule.” As such, given it’s about an abstract thing and has only been applied abstractly, we can’t say for sure or against New Order. All we know is some limitation exists for her, and that should be accounted for. (More specifically, deliberating what would and wouldn’t breach into what would be in that limitation.)

Except you misinterpreted what he's saying again

You claim that New Order's rules for living and nonliving things are different, as nonliving things can be affected flawlessley while living things are harder to control, which is half true

It's true that nonliving things can be controlled flawlessly

But, according to Shiggy, and confirmed by the rest of the fight:

"The difference in efficacy between rules for living and nonliving things must have to do wit the process of naming the target. Her new rule for me didn't take hold because her understanding doesn't quite mesh with reality. When Ms. Star touched me, she believed me to be Tomura Shigaraki... but even my understanding of myself is hazy. Is my NAME Shigaraki? Or All For One? Or Shimura, even?"
"When calling the name of a target with a sense of self, Ms. Star's understanding of the Target's identity must align with its own.
For targets without a sense of self, her one-sided understanding is enough to enforce the new rule!"

This basically means if Star's understanding of her target's identity matches the target's understanding of their own identity, she can do whatever the f*ck she wants

Since All Might has a known name and a known Hero name, what this basically means is:

she can do whatever the f*ck she wants

and therefore, All Might is cooked

 

[RedReaper616]

you contradicted yourself with the link you sent

You admit yourself that there's no cap when it comes to incapacitation, meaning incapacitation on All Might, who is comparable to if not slightly weaker than Incomplete Shiggy, will still work, except that the method of doing so might be less effective
However, if you look closely at what he's actually saying:

"Judging from the fact that she didn't say: 'If he touches the air within this set range, he dies', one assumes that the new rule can't arbitrarily involve things she hasn't touched, just through roundabout wording, or perhaps she could make such a rule, but it would be less effective"

What he's saying is that Star could potentially impose rules on something she HASN'T touched if they touch things she HAS touched, but it might be less effective

That’s…huh? You’re just repeating what I’m saying. Yeah, the things she has or hasn’t touched, but that’s specifically in relation to the method she uses. Which is the point.

However, for the things she HAS touched, she can do whatever the f*ck she wants


Except you misinterpreted what he's saying again

You claim that New Order's rules for living and nonliving things are different, as nonliving things can be affected flawlessley while living things are harder to control, which is half true

It's true that nonliving things can be controlled flawlessly

But, according to Shiggy, and confirmed by the rest of the fight:

"The difference in efficacy between rules for living and nonliving things must have to do wit the process of naming the target. Her new rule for me didn't take hold because her understanding doesn't quite mesh with reality. When Ms. Star touched me, she believed me to be Tomura Shigaraki... but even my understanding of myself is hazy. Is my NAME Shigaraki? Or All For One? Or Shimura, even?"
"When calling the name of a target with a sense of self, Ms. Star's understanding of the Target's identity must align with its own.
For targets without a sense of self, her one-sided understanding is enough to enforce the new rule!"

This basically means if Star's understanding of her target's identity matches the target's understanding of their own identity, she can do whatever the f*ck she wants

Since All Might has a known name and a known Hero name, what this basically means is:

she can do whatever the f*ck she wants

and therefore, All Might is cooked

No, as noted by Shiggy, there’s a limit to what she can do. Not incapacitation, but legitimately in the form of “life power.” Hence why she’s not > All Might nor could she make herself resist Decay fully. Also, yeah, his reality matches her reality, but the point is that she doesn’t have to deal with a foreign reality or life power to utilize her abilities with non-sentient objects.

 

[Catbowtie]

I'm agreeing with Mickey1940 on this one. Considering this isn't a death match, Stars and Stripes will just incapacitate All Might. I saw that anything that isn't on the profile isn't accepted, but couldn't rules made to hinder/incapacitate be reasonably used by Stars from her Notable Attacks/Techniques section? It wouldn't be too out of reach as her New Order sections says "[...]as well as manipulate the condition of her opponent's body," I can very well see Stars and Stripes saying "All Might can't go into his Muscular Form." and pummeling him in his weakened state.

 

[RedReaper616]

I'm agreeing with Mickey1940 on this one. Considering this isn't a death match, Stars and Stripes will just incapacitate All Might. I saw that anything that isn't on the profile isn't accepted, but couldn't rules made to hinder/incapacitate be reasonably used by Stars from her Notable Attacks/Techniques section? It wouldn't be too out of reach as her New Order sections says "[...]as well as manipulate the condition of her opponent's body," I can very well see Stars and Stripes saying "All Might can't go into his Muscular Form." and pummeling him in his weakened state.

I don’t see why not. I only wanted to clarify Star has a limit. It’s just not a well defined one.

 

[Oreo166]

That isn't a different power,

Neither is Star using New Order to make something happen to a part of All Might’s body, just like she would’ve been able to do to Shigaraki’s heart.

plus half the reasoning was her using guns, which she can.

Where was it ever even shown her using guns? Even if that was the case, Ochako would be durable enough to tank regular bullets and even fast enough to dodge them if Momo just makes an ordinary gun.

 

[SlendVeny]

Neither is Star using New Order to make something happen to a part of All Might’s body, just like she would’ve been able to do to Shigaraki’s heart.


Where was it ever even shown her using guns? Even if that was the case, Ochako would be durable enough to tank regular bullets and even fast enough to dodge them if Momo just makes an ordinary gun.

Momo uses a railgun against AFO

 

[Mickey1940]

That’s…huh? You’re just repeating what I’m saying. Yeah, the things she has or hasn’t touched, but that’s specifically in relation to the method she uses. Which is the point.

You said:

"While there isn’t a cap on incapacitation, specifically, there is seemingly in the method of doing so"

From my perspective, it seemed like you were saying there was a cap on the method in which she imposes rules on things, which is only true of things she HASN'T touched. For things she HAS touched, she has no known limit besides the whole naming thing. Meaning she can instakill him with any of her rules

No, as noted by Shiggy, there’s a limit to what she can do. Not incapacitation, but legitimately in the form of “life power.” Hence why she’s not > All Might nor could she make herself resist Decay fully. Also, yeah, his reality matches her reality, but the point is that she doesn’t have to deal with a foreign reality or life power to utilize her abilities with non-sentient objects.

And despite that, the vast majority of his analysis was about how her only real limit is the fact that she needs to call her opponent by a name. Yes, the life power thing does exist, but:
1. It's implied it's only her limit when it comes to enhancing herself with rules
2. Even if the above wasn't correct, her abilities were still heavily implied to be able to work on Shiggy if Shiggy went by a name at the time
3. Even if the above wasn't correct AGAIN, Shiggy specifically states that "there's no limit to how much a rule can incapacitate someone
4. Even if all of this isn't correct, Star straight up doesn't need to touch All Might to beat him. If Star lands Keranous it's over anyways, or her jets can blast All Might themselves, or Tiamat missiles vaporize him, or Star suffocates him by deleting the air around him, etc.

 

[Kidkinsey]

I don't think you guys are factoring the amp all might gets when he puts his back into it

 

[Mickey1940]

I don't think you guys are factoring the amp all might gets when he puts his back into it

except it still doesn't matter

Star and Stripe's wincons have nothing to do with her AP

erasing the air near him doesn't care about AP
touching him and making him instantly die doesn't care about AP
Fist Bump To The Earth closes the AP gap somewhat so she can still keep up
Keranous melts his skin off so it doesn't matter
Tiamat Missiles are 6B so it doesn't matter

like All Might needs to straight up 1 shot Star and Stripe off the rip if he wants to win, which he can't do since Star boosts herself immediately and with her boosts she can physically pressure Shiggy who's comparable to him and has regen

 

[Oreo166]

Momo uses a railgun against AFO

That’s not the same as an actual gun

 

[SlendVeny]

That’s not the same as an actual gun

It's better

 

[Oreo166]

It's better

And so is Star saying making someone’s heart will stop than saying something will happen to his body.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So can someone remind me of who's voting who since this debate has been going for awhile?

 

[Catbowtie]

I voted for Stars and Stripes.

 

[Mickey1940]

I vote Star and Stripe

 

[Oreo166]

Voting Star and Stripe winning with mid diff at worst

 

[TheRustyOne]

None of them would do anything crazy to the other. Star would face All Might head on out of respect for him, and All Might has been shown to go serious as well. He clearly can't prevent himself from going a bit overboard either, considering what he did to both Izuku and Bakugo during the final exam.

Voting for Star and Stripe.

She can dish out everything All Might can and more. Her LS is actually superior, since only Prime All Might scales above her. All Might isn't a strategic fighter and Star has undergone military training, I think their experience and training respectively cancel each other out. Not like Star doesn't have decades of experience already.

Her Fist Bump to the Earth alone is something All Might cannot really counter. He cannot see it and it's stronger than him. She could restrain him with it if she wanted to.