Ben 10 - Alien X downgrade y’all saw coming a mile away!

[Zamasu_Chan]

You already know the drill.

The Prime Universe​

This OP provides solid proof the Null Void exists in the prime universe and this OP has good evidence Legerdomain is part of the prime universe. I can agree that the prime universe is 2-C.
However, my first problem comes from Kevin's overused statement in this clip.

Kevin: Wait, I thought the universe was everything.
Paradox: Common error of the parochial mind. There's always more to reality than one imagines.

Kevin is wrong. The universe is not everything. So using this statement as evidence is very faulty. When Paradox took Ben and the gang to an alternate timeline, Kevin still thought the universe was then. This statement has no form of validity when it solely exists to point out that Kevin was wrong.
This means Dimension 12 and the other infinite dimensions have no evidence of being part of the prime universe at all. We even see an alternate universe in that same clip (0:21).

"Omnipotence"​

Alien X currently scales above the Chrono Navigator and the Chronosapien Time Bomb due to statements of being the greatest power in the universe, can do anything, or having unlimited/limitless power.

First point​

Firstly, Alien X can't do any and everything. As stated in the following clip.

Ben: Bellicus, Serena you gotta let me use Alien X to stop the Annihilarrgh.
Bellicus: Oh, it's too late for that.
Ben: What?! It can't be!
Serena: I'm afraid it is.
1:26

Alien X is too late to stop the Annihilarrgh from destroying the universe.

Ben: But Alien X can fix this right?... right?!
Serena: Alien X can do many things, we just both have to agree to it.
1:51

He's said to be capable of many things, instead of anything, by one of his main sources of power.

This point is reinforced again in this clip, where Ben says he was too late to save the universe and was forced to make a replica.

Second point​

This scan is not saying he has unlimited power but unlimited powers (plural). With the plural use or "powers", it's saying that he has unlimited abilities and can turn thoughts into reality. When one has an ability to turn thoughts real, then one would imagine it as having unlimited potential abilities depending on your imagination.
"It is the source of the universe's greatest power. It is where Ideas become real." The context is right here. The greatest power isn’t raw strength but it's making thoughts reality.

My point is only amplified due to this dreadful alien. Atomic X is not physically strong as Alien X due being a fusion. Agreggor, who'd also be a celestialsapien fusion, would be in the same boat as Atomic X yet was still considered to be omnipotent after stealing their powers. It's clear that the physical stats aren’t at play here. All he needs it the ability to think anything into reality to be considered omnipotent or have the greatest power in the universe.

Bonus: Ben 10K says that there's only one person in the universe that can help them against Maltruant, which is present Ben, despite Star Beard being on the ship at the time. This implies that regular Celestialsapiens aren't physically as strong as Alien X, making the "greatest power" statements more unlikely to be raw power. Just an interesting point I wanted to throw out there.

Third point​

We all know about Ben's failsafe, giving him the right alien so he won't die. Yet it never gave him the right alien, or any alien, when he was destroyed by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Especially when it saved his life when a big bang went off in his face (Which Alien X couldn’t stop again). This heavily implies, if not outright shows, that Alien X is unable to stop the chronosapien time bomb at all, not even with the assist of a failsafe.

Overall, there are two instances of Alien X not being able to overcome the Annihilarrgh, one instance where the Chronosapien Time Bomb straight up negs Ben failsafe, which would include Alien X, and even having half of Alien X's DNA doesn’t make you so much of a physical powerhouse anywhere near AX's level. If Alien X can't cover come two weapons that Azmuth and Paradox are aware of, then their statements are merely wrong or even hyperbolic.

Speed​

His infinite speed justification is dumb as hell. I shouldn’t even need to go into why shit shouldn’t scale to attack speed. Look at 2:22 - 2:33. We see balls of light become galaxies after traveling a very finite distance. We then see the earth and stars merely spawn in. This is not something crossing an infinite distance over a finite amount of time. At best those moving lights are MFTL+, which is redundant because he has MFTL+ movement that likely yield higher results. It's redundant to have both so replacing his whole speed justification with this new one should be that way to go. After it gets evaluated of course.

Conclusion​

Get em back to 2-C and remove infinite attack speed altogether. I'm going to bed

 

[Aachintya31]

Eww.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Common Zamasu W.

I agree to this.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I'm gonna watch the entirety of ben ten media tomorrow so I can participate in shit like this

 

[Aachintya31]

Gonna wait and respond.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Every day I wake up and I wonder to myself if all is lost in the world.

Then I see a new Alien X tier change and am reminded that all is right and as it should be.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Bernkastelll]

no

 

[Lovemovies14]

Disagree, The tier is good the way it is. No need to tamper with it. You're just upset that he got upgraded.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Disagree, The tier is good the way it is. No need to tamper with it.

Sir u cant just disagree without giving a proper answer

 

[Lovemovies14]

The previous threads have been already accepted by a majority of people and they discredited the downgrade from 2019. @Reiner can explain stuff better than I do.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Disagree, The tier is good the way it is. No need to tamper with it. You're just upset that he got upgraded.

Wow top tier debunk.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

it never ends

 

[Lovemovies14]

It's gonna take a while for me to write a counter-debunk, but for once can we just leave those stats alone. They've changed overtime for too long.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

It's gonna take a while for me to write a counter-debunk, but for once can we just leave those stats alone. They've changed overtime for too long.

Nah.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Disagree, The tier is good the way it is. No need to tamper with it. You're just upset that he got upgraded.

The previous threads have been already accepted by a majority of people and they discredited the downgrade from 2019. @Reiner can explain stuff better than I do.

It's gonna take a while for me to write a counter-debunk, but for once can we just leave those stats alone. They've changed overtime for too long.

nice W you go king

 

[thetechmaster36]

Disagree, The tier is good the way it is. No need to tamper with it.

Bro really said "I disagree because I like how the tier looks right now"

Someone give this person some sort of award because by golly, we have a genius

 

[Lovemovies14]

Took a long ass time to write what I can.

The Prime Universe​

This OP provides solid proof the Null Void exists in the prime universe and this OP has good evidence Legerdomain is part of the prime universe. I can agree that the prime universe is 2-C.
However, my first problem comes from Kevin's overused statement in this clip.
Kevin is wrong. The universe is not everything. So using this statement as evidence is very faulty. When Paradox took Ben and the gang to an alternate timeline, Kevin still thought the universe was then. This statement has no form of validity when it solely exists to point out that Kevin was wrong.
This means Dimension 12 and the other infinite dimensions have no evidence of being part of the prime universe at all. We even see an alternate universe in that same clip (0:21).

This can be contradicted by the fact that Gwen was searching the entire universe for Kevin's car and Ledgerdomain is one of the places that came up. She even said before that it is part of the universe meaning like Null void and every other space-time dimension, it is apart of the universe.

First point​

Firstly, Alien X can't do any and everything. As stated in the following clip.
Ben: Bellicus, Serena you gotta let me use Alien X to stop the Annihilarrgh.
Bellicus: Oh, it's too late for that.
Ben: What?! It can't be!
Serena: I'm afraid it is.
1:26
Alien X is too late to stop the Annihilarrgh from destroying the universe.
Ben: But Alien X can fix this right?... right?!
Serena: Alien X can do many things, we just both have to agree to it.
1:51
He's said to be capable of many things, instead of anything, by one of his main sources of power.

This point is reinforced again in this clip, where Ben says he was too late to save the universe and was forced to make a replica.

If it were too late then why was X able to restore it then? They meant too late as in already happened and Ben was in the middle of debating to convince them to come to an agreement which they had.

I can contradict this "Alien X can do many things, we just both have to agree to it." with this "Alien X can do anything."-Azmuth

Second point​

This scan is not saying he has unlimited power but unlimited powers (plural). With the plural use or "powers", it's saying that he has unlimited abilities and can turn thoughts into reality. When one has an ability to turn thoughts real, then one would imagine it as having unlimited potential abilities depending on your imagination.
"It is the source of the universe's greatest power. It is where Ideas become real." The context is right here. The greatest power isn’t raw strength but it's making thoughts reality.

My point is only amplified due to this dreadful alien. Atomic X is not physically strong as Alien X due being a fusion. Agreggor, who'd also be a celestialsapien fusion, would be in the same boat as Atomic X yet was still considered to be omnipotent after stealing their powers. It's clear that the physical stats aren’t at play here. All he needs it the ability to think anything into reality to be considered omnipotent or have the greatest power in the universe.

Bonus: Ben 10K says that there's only one person in the universe that can help them against Maltruant, which is present Ben, despite Star Beard being on the ship at the time. This implies that regular Celestialsapiens aren't physically as strong as Alien X, making the "greatest power" statements more unlikely to be raw power. Just an interesting point I wanted to throw out there.

-Their turning thoughts into reality applies to their overall power and AP, It's already been established and said multiple times they possess the greatest power in existence. The word omnipotent is used to define something as very OP and seemingly unstoppable, it doesn't automatically mean omnipotence. Also Celestialsapiens still can possess the greatest power in the verse even if they aren't all equal to each other. Plus they have an oath not to interfere and are neutral beings which is part of why they didn't interfere when the universe got destroyed by the Annihilargh and the fact they punished Ben for recreating it. That's also the reason why that one Celestialsapien didn't interfere, or the fact that he isn't in the strongest group of his race.

Third point​

We all know about Ben's failsafe, giving him the right alien so he won't die. Yet it never gave him the right alien, or any alien, when he was destroyed by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Especially when it saved his life when a big bang went off in his face (Which Alien X couldn’t stop again). This heavily implies, if not outright shows, that Alien X is unable to stop the chronosapien time bomb at all, not even with the assist of a failsafe.

Overall, there are two instances of Alien X not being able to overcome the Annihilarrgh, one instance where the Chronosapien Time Bomb straight up negs Ben failsafe, which would include Alien X, and even having half of Alien X's DNA doesn’t make you so much of a physical powerhouse anywhere near AX's level. If Alien X can't cover come two weapons that Azmuth and Paradox are aware of, then their statements are merely wrong or even hyperbolic.

You're literally taking an instance that happened prior to him tanking the big bang and gaining full control of Alien X. He would've used X to fixed this but he chronologically never had access to him prior to this. There is nothing there to imply that X wouldn't be able to survive it, he wasn't present then and it is irrelevant to compare Atomic-X to Alien X. When we saw the CTB blast hit Ben, we briefly see him survive it while the other alternate versions of him we saw got immediately erased, he just didn't notice it all. He gave his to No Watch Ben because his timeline was the one that wouldn't be affected since it is the one verse where Ben never got the watch.

Speed​

His infinite speed justification is dumb as hell. I shouldn’t even need to go into why shit shouldn’t scale to attack speed. Look at 2:22 - 2:33. We see balls of light become galaxies after traveling a very finite distance. We then see the earth and stars merely spawn in. This is not something crossing an infinite distance over a finite amount of time. At best those moving lights are MFTL+, which is redundant because he has MFTL+ movement that likely yield higher results. It's redundant to have both so replacing his whole speed justification with this new one should be that way to go. After it gets evaluated of course.

The universe already had been accepted as infinite in size, plus it would be impossible for the animators to show his speed being infinite and all celestial bodies moving to all different places across an infinite-sized universe.

Conclusion​

Get em back to 2-C and remove infinite attack speed altogether. I'm going to bed

How about no, the downgrade from the past already got discredited. The tier is fine. You lost buddy.
universe. Celestialsapiens having the greatest power is the lore.

 

[DemonicDude]

I can't believe there are legitimately people out there who thinks Alien X can create a Universe.
People wanked a Tier 7 character in Alien X to Tier 2 it's crazy.

 

[Aachintya31]

When Paradox took Ben and the gang to an alternate timeline

This isn't an alternate timeline. this is the probable future of the same timeline if past isn't fixed ,Parallel Paradox Literally said "Or Should I say ,Past". Changing past literally changes the future in Ben 10.

Alien X is too late to stop the Annihilarrgh from destroying the universe.

Bruhh ,the annihilaarg already detonated ,does it makes sense to stop something which already happened ?Ben just didn't knew it had detonated. Reversing time is also a similar thing to making a copy ,its just their matter of choice.

This scan is not saying he has unlimited power but unlimited powers (plural). With the plural use or "powers", it's saying that he has unlimited abilities and can turn thoughts into reality. When one has an ability to turn thoughts real, then one would imagine it as having unlimited potential abilities depending on your imagination.

This is nitpicking at an unfathonable level ,the same scan has two things :
Thoughts becoming reality
Unlimited powers
They really can't the same thing in two different line. Unlimited powers refers to raw strength and literally not reality warping

My point is only amplified due to this dreadful alien. Atomic X is not physically strong as Alien X due being a fusion. Agreggor, who'd also be a celestialsapien fusion, would be in the same boat as Atomic X yet was still considered to be omnipotent after stealing their powers. It's clear that the physical stats aren’t at play here. All he needs it the ability to think anything into reality to be considered omnipotent or have the greatest power in the universe.

Atomic X is weaker than Alien X miles away by our site rules. Fusions are significantly weaker than regular aliens .Big chuck was overwhelmed by Eon's Servant.
Crashshocker didn't hurt Exoskull even by a bit Ben 10k .XLR8 almost one shotted him. It's just that time manipulation is Atomic X weakness.

Bonus: Ben 10K says that there's only one person in the universe that can help them against Maltruant, which is present Ben, despite Star Beard being on the ship at the time. This implies that regular Celestialsapiens aren't physically as strong as Alien X, making the "greatest power" statements more unlikely to be raw power. Just an interesting point I wanted to throw out there.

Starbeard ain't gonna help ben.Their personality wouldn't agree to do so, Ben 10k says only young ben can save him because its a loop and it should go like as it is destined to go.

Bonus: Ben 10K says that there's only one person in the universe that can help them against Maltruant, which is present Ben, despite Star Beard being on the ship at the time. This implies that regular Celestialsapiens aren't physically as strong as Alien X, making the "greatest power" statements more unlikely to be raw power. Just an interesting point I wanted to throw out there.

I am gonna be real.The writers aren't mad enough to write two different lines meaning the same "Its where ideas become real and then "its the source to the greatest power in the universe "Saying its hyperbolic negates the entire Ben 10 UA : season 1 lore and the fact it was said by two supergenius characters.

We all know about Ben's failsafe, giving him the right alien so he won't die. Yet it never gave him the right alien, or any alien, when he was destroyed by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Especially when it saved his life when a big bang went off in his face (Which Alien X couldn’t stop again). This heavily implies, if not outright shows, that Alien X is unable to stop the chronosapien time bomb at all, not even with the assist of a failsafe.

Omnitrix Failsafe is smarter than you think. Omnitrix wasn't in ben Prime's hand when he was killed. If that wouldn't happen Ben Prime wouldn't get the omnitrix according to paradox ,it was supposed to happen .These events were supposed to happen for ben prime to get the omnitrix.

His infinite speed justification is dumb as hell. I shouldn’t even need to go into why shit shouldn’t scale to attack speed. Look at 2:22 - 2:33. We see balls of light become galaxies after traveling a very finite distance. We then see the earth and stars merely spawn in. This is not something crossing an infinite distance over a finite amount of time. At best those moving lights are MFTL+, which is redundant because he has MFTL+ movement that likely yield higher results. It's redundant to have both so replacing his whole speed justification with this new one should be that way to go. After it gets evaluated of course.

Its Infinite Attack Speed not flight speed. The site distinguishes different kind of speed.We could literally see galaxy moving a distance beyond the limit of the screen at 2:33-2:35 in an infinite universe.

 

[Reiner04]

Kevin is wrong. The universe is not everything. So using this statement as evidence is very faulty. When Paradox took Ben and the gang to an alternate timeline, Kevin still thought the universe was then. This statement has no form of validity when it solely exists to point out that Kevin was wrong.
This means Dimension 12 and the other infinite dimensions have no evidence of being part of the prime universe at all. We even see an alternate universe in that same clip (0:21).

Have been retconned as non of them were aware of even crosstime.
And universe.

Firstly, Alien X can't do any and everything. As stated in the following clip.

Why important?

"It is the source of the universe's greatest power. It is where Ideas become real." The context is right here. The greatest power isn’t raw strength but it's making thoughts reality.

"Alien X said to contain Limitless power" so not valid.

We all know about Ben's failsafe, giving him the right alien so he won't die. Yet it never gave him the right alien, or any alien, when he was destroyed by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Especially when it saved his life when a big bang went off in his face (Which Alien X couldn’t stop again). This heavily implies, if not outright shows, that Alien X is unable to stop the chronosapien time bomb at all, not even with the assist of a failsafe.

Fail safe is not perfect shown on many occasions, even when chromastone was trying to absorb the 6 lakh souls and having failsafe doesn't mean that it would work for all unworldy cases, chronosapien timebomb was far more metaphysical and distructive than what ben has faced so far, it's nlf.

 

[Reiner04]

Man, is that all?

After being retconned two times that non from trio was aware of anything beyond universe or other crosstime, we are still using it?

There were many events in that story being retconned like paradox not being aware of his name "paradox". One of hell episode man.

 

[Forthegood]

The amount of arguments this guy has to respond to is wild

 

[Aachintya31]

Man, is that all?

He got 2 staff approval in minutes of creating this CRT and you waited for months for getting evaluation after spamming the walls.

 

[Lovemovies14]

He got 2 staff approval in minutes of creating this CRT and you waited for months for getting evaluation after spamming the walls.

Staff are biased.

 

[Reiner04]

He got 2 staff approval in minutes of creating this CRT and you waited for months for getting evaluation after spamming the walls.

fr those who were scared from coming and prove me wrong in my crt is now in fra position right after this crt posted.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Took a long ass time to write what I can.

This can be contradicted by the fact that Gwen was searching the entire universe for Kevin's car and Ledgerdomain is one of the places that came up.

I linked this exact video in the OP saying I agreed with it. Did you not read through properly?

She even said before that it is part of the universe meaning like Null void and every other space-time dimension, it is apart of the universe.

Why would Ledgerdomain existing in the universe mean that every other dimension has to exist in it as well? Where's the proof.

If it were too late then why was X able to restore it then? They meant too late as in already happened and Ben was in the middle of debating to convince them to come to an agreement which they had.

He didn’t restore it, he recreated it. Were you not paying attention?

I can contradict this "Alien X can do many things, we just both have to agree to it." with this "Alien X can do anything."-Azmuth

You're missing the point. Serena is a better form of judgement because it's her powers that she knows more about. Point is, Alien X couldn’t stop the universe from being destroyed.

-Their turning thoughts into reality applies to their overall power and AP, It's already been established and said multiple times they possess the greatest power in existence. The word omnipotent is used to define something as very OP and seemingly unstoppable, it doesn't automatically mean omnipotence. Also Celestialsapiens still can possess the greatest power in the verse even if they aren't all equal to each other. Plus they have an oath not to interfere and are neutral beings which is part of why they didn't interfere when the universe got destroyed by the Annihilargh and the fact they punished Ben for recreating it. That's also the reason why that one Celestialsapien didn't interfere, or the fact that he isn't in the strongest group of his race.

This changes absolutely nothing what I said. Context matters and in this context, it's not raw power.

You're literally taking an instance that happened prior to him tanking the big bang and gaining full control of Alien X. He would've used X to fixed this but he chronologically never had access to him prior to this. There is nothing there to imply that X wouldn't be able to survive it, he wasn't present then and it is irrelevant to compare Atomic-X to Alien X. When we saw the CTB blast hit Ben, we briefly see him survive it while the other alternate versions of him we saw got immediately erased, he just didn't notice it all. He gave his to No Watch Ben because his timeline was the one that wouldn't be affected since it is the one verse where Ben never got the watch.

Him having full control over Alien X when the Omnitrix gave him Alien X against the Galactic Gladiator. Regardless tho Omnitrix failsafe never gave Ben Alien X when the CTB went off, it was only able to attatch to an alternate Ben. I don't see how this helps your case at all.

The universe already had been accepted as infinite in size, plus it would be impossible for the animators to show his speed being infinite and all celestial bodies moving to all different places across an infinite-sized universe.

Of course it'd be impossible to animate crossing infinite distance. It was shown that only a few galaxies moved then everything else just spawned in. You can't guarantee that everything had moved an infinite distance when that's never shown or implied.

This isn't an alternate timeline. this is the probable future of the same timeline if past isn't fixed ,Parallel Paradox Literally said "Or Should I say ,Past". Changing past literally changes the future in Ben 10.

Regardless, Kevin was proven wrong by Paradox.

Bruhh ,the annihilaarg already detonated ,does it makes sense to stop something which already happened ?Ben just didn't knew it had detonated. Reversing time is also a similar thing to making a copy ,its just their matter of choice.

Ben said himself he was too late to save the universe so he made a different one. If he merely reversed time, that would not be AP at all and the Mr. Smoothie mascot would've looked the same. Ben can't stop the Annihilarrgh. That's the point I'm making. He's incapable of doing it. Showing that Alien X's power, within his own verse, is not limitless.

This is nitpicking at an unfathonable level ,the same scan has two things :
Thoughts becoming reality
Unlimited powers
They really can't the same thing in two different line. Unlimited powers refers to raw strength and literally not reality warping

Pointing out the difference between singular and plural words is not a nitpick. Regardless it's not unlimited because it was shown a limit on more than one occasion.

Atomic X is weaker than Alien X miles away by our site rules. Fusions are significantly weaker than regular aliens .Big chuck was overwhelmed by Eon's Servant.
Crashshocker didn't hurt Exoskull even by a bit Ben 10k .XLR8 almost one shotted him. It's just that time manipulation is Atomic X weakness.

Doesn’t change my point at all. Adding celestialsapien DNA doesn’t make your physical stats impressive in the slightest. It would be the same for Aggregor, especially since he'd have significantly less DNA compared to Atomic X.

Yeah, bro star beard wasn't on the ship .Don't make up stuff.Ben 10k says only young ben can save him because its a loop and it should go like as it is destined to go.

I showed you a scan of him on the ship in the same episode. Are you not reading? I'll leave this point alone since the only valid thing any of you said was the time loop thing, so I'll give you that.

I am gonna be real.The writers aren't mad enough to write two different lines meaning the same "Its where ideas become real and then "its the source to the greatest power in the universe "Saying its hyperbolic negates the entire Ben 10 UA : season 1 lore and the fact it was said by two supergenius characters.

I don't care what writers think. They have no say in how we interpret the text. If it's contradictory, then that's their fault.

Omnitrix Failsafe is smarter than you think. Omnitrix wasn't in ben Prime's hand when he was killed. If that wouldn't happen Ben Prime wouldn't get the omnitrix according to paradox ,it was supposed to happen .These events were supposed to happen for ben prime to get the omnitrix.

It still never activated Alien X and Prime Ben still died. Go figure, Ben could do nothing against it.

Its Infinite Attack Speed not flight speed. The site distinguishes different kind of speed.We could literally see galaxy moving a distance beyond the limit of the screen at 2:33-2:35 in an infinite universe.

What do you mean beyond the the limit of the screen? Tf?

Have been retconned as non of them were aware of even crosstime.
And universe.

I have no clue what you mean by this. What was retconned? How does this disprove Kevin being wrong?

Why important?

Boi ain't no way. I should not have to answer this.

"Alien X said to contain Limitless power" so not valid.

This isn’t even a refute???

Fail safe is not perfect shown on many occasions, even when chromastone was trying to absorb the 6 lakh souls and having failsafe doesn't mean that it would work for all unworldy cases, chronosapien timebomb was far more metaphysical and distructive than what ben has faced so far, it's nlf.

All that means is that Ben has no soul hax resistance.

 

[Reiner04]

I have no clue what you mean by this. What was retconned? How does this disprove Kevin being wrong?

Non of the trio was aware of universes or crosstime bruh?

Boi ain't no way. I should not have to answer this.

Proceed.

This isn’t even a refute???

Unlimited power refute right in your OP, and this is discrediting it.
Now why greatest power in the universe is his reality wrapping or hax?.

All that means is that Ben has no soul hax resistance

So all that means failsafe is doesn't work or not response to something as metaphysical as 2A boi.

 

[Reiner04]

Nlf for failsafe? Really?

 

[Lovemovies14]

Why would Ledgerdomain existing in the universe mean that every other dimension has to exist in it as well? Where's the proof.

Dr Holiday has mentioned there are theoretically infinite dimensions like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, falling under the definition of "the universe." Meaning that the infinite dimensions are a part of the universe.

 

[Reiner04]

We can stop with derailing

 

[Lovemovies14]

We can stop with derailing

He's responding to me too.

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah but only thing op has taken in account should be discussed, anything else will make crt mess and unclear to judge.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Dr Holiday has mentioned there are theoretically infinite dimensions like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, falling under the definition of "the universe." Meaning that the infinite dimensions are a part of the universe.

Again. Prove they’re in the same universe.

 

[Reiner04]

We can stop with discussing anything that hasn't been brought up by OP. OP comes first.
OP should be the one first discussed.

 

[Reiner04]

Again. Prove they’re in the same universe.

This is not in the OP.

 

[Forthegood]

You already know the drill.

The Prime Universe​

This OP provides solid proof the Null Void exists in the prime universe and this OP has good evidence Legerdomain is part of the prime universe. I can agree that the prime universe is 2-C.
However, my first problem comes from Kevin's overused statement in this clip.

Kevin is wrong. The universe is not everything. So using this statement as evidence is very faulty. When Paradox took Ben and the gang to an alternate timeline, Kevin still thought the universe was then. This statement has no form of validity when it solely exists to point out that Kevin was wrong.
This means Dimension 12 and the other infinite dimensions have no evidence of being part of the prime universe at all. We even see an alternate universe in that same clip (0:21).

Wasn't it established that you had to prove that these Universes are outside Universes and not inverse as the entire crossover about generator Rex was about in verse “Universes". Neutral about this I'm only going to address the miss conceptions about some of this arguments.

"Omnipotence"​

Alien X currently scales above the Chrono Navigator and the Chronosapien Time Bomb due to statements of being the greatest power in the universe, can do anything, or having unlimited/limitless power.

First point​

Firstly, Alien X can't do any and everything. As stated in the following clip.

Alien X is too late to stop the Annihilarrgh from destroying the universe.

As said by many LMAO this argument is such a fault and is so funny to use THE UNIVERSE WAS ALREADY DESTROYED him recreating it is basically the same as him stopping it as both 2-C level energy was induced to come up with this feat. So this point is moot.

He's said to be capable of many things, instead of anything, by one of his main sources of power.

This point is reinforced again in this clip, where Ben says he was too late to save the universe and was forced to make a replica.

Above LMAO it's the SAME THING different matters of appliance

Second point​

This scan is not saying he has unlimited power but unlimited powers (plural). With the plural use or "powers", it's saying that he has unlimited abilities and can turn thoughts into reality. When one has an ability to turn thoughts real, then one would imagine it as having unlimited potential abilities depending on your imagination.
"It is the source of the universe's greatest power. It is where Ideas become real." The context is right here. The greatest power isn’t raw strength but it's making thoughts reality.

Yes I agree with this but it has nothing to do with his Reality warping in the scan under the power category (this scan was obviously taken out of context by both you and Reiner) unlimited powers refers to him having infinite set abilities which explains the plural on it and that of the fact it also had “thoughts become reality" literally tells us this is just further giving into Alien X abilities.

Bonus: Ben 10K says that there's only one person in the universe that can help them against Maltruant, which is present Ben, despite Star Beard being on the ship at the time. This implies that regular Celestialsapiens aren't physically as strong as Alien X, making the "greatest power" statements more unlikely to be raw power. Just an interesting point I wanted to throw out there.

Third point​

We all know about Ben's failsafe, giving him the right alien so he won't die. Yet it never gave him the right alien, or any alien, when he was destroyed by the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Especially when it saved his life when a big bang went off in his face (Which Alien X couldn’t stop again). This heavily implies, if not outright shows, that Alien X is unable to stop the chronosapien time bomb at all, not even with the assist of a failsafe.

Once again the Annilargh argument was already addressed. Assumption the DNA used for Alien X was already used and half of it was erased from existence.

Overall, there are two instances of Alien X not being able to overcome the Annihilarrgh, one instance where the Chronosapien Time Bomb straight up negs Ben failsafe, which would include Alien X, and even having half of Alien X's DNA doesn’t make you so much of a physical powerhouse anywhere near AX's level. If Alien X can't cover come two weapons that Azmuth and Paradox are aware of, then their statements are merely wrong or even hyperbolic.

WAIT A MINUTE LMAO.
There is no instances you are just downplaying alot of things and already taking things way out of context. As shown in the series itself The personalities are what makes Alien X and allows him to go into his full apex as it's safely to assume that Ben 10 000 uses the biomntrix to escape the PD he uses it as a method to insta bypass the primary weakness for Alien X so it would obviously tells us everything as shown fusions are insignificantly weaker than their original counter parts.

No they are not LMAO.

Speed​

His infinite speed justification is dumb as hell. I shouldn’t even need to go into why shit shouldn’t scale to attack speed. Look at 2:22 - 2:33. We see balls of light become galaxies after traveling a very finite distance. We then see the earth and stars merely spawn in. This is not something crossing an infinite distance over a finite amount of time. At best those moving lights are MFTL+, which is redundant because he has MFTL+ movement that likely yield higher results. It's redundant to have both so replacing his whole speed justification with this new one should be that way to go. After it gets evaluated of course.

The universe is infinite in size Alien X was moving Galaxies from point A(his body) too point B( the outer space) to an infinite distance in finite amount of time this was via telekinesis as you can see for yourself which is what gave him infinite attack speed. The other things spawning is a animation fault you don't expect them to go on to very much detail with animation because that itself would take quite a long time.

Conclusion​

Get em back to 2-C and remove infinite attack speed altogether. I'm going to bed

No

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This is not in the OP.

Evidence relating to the topic at hand can still be discussed even if it isn’t in the OP.

 

[Shadyboi0]

agree with the premise

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Dr Holiday has mentioned there are theoretically infinite dimensions like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, falling under the definition of "the universe." Meaning that the infinite dimensions are a part of the universe.

Not going to comment too much in this thread that hasn't already been said, but I do want to tackle this. Why is Holiday's statement, after the multiple past threads and discussions it was brought up in, being taken as a legitimate statement in the first place? It's already been explained why her theoretical statement on the existence of infinite dimensions shouldn't be taken seriously as a credible form of evidence.

Holiday is not like Paradox where she has a deep understanding of time and space or credible level of knowledge and research done into the existence of alternate worlds (something she was also fairly skeptical of in the Crossover by the way). Outside of that crossover episode, Generator Rex never deals with anything related to the subject of parallel universes, dimensions or worlds, much less showing any character doing actual research on parallel universes at any other given point in the show. Hence why it was decided in the past that Generator Rex's crossover, even if canon and acceptable by crossover rules, wouldn't and shouldn't have baring on Ben 10's Cosmology

Holiday's only method of drawing to the conclusion of infinite dimensions is....through math. Of all possible forms of evidence that can be considered enough to get 2-A, we shouldn't have the bar set so low that doing simple math and calculations is enough to reach it. Holiday doesn't and hasn't shown any sort of credibility as to why this statement and the poor context behind it should be taken seriously.

And even with the benefit of the doubt, Zamasu's point on proving they all reside in the Prime universe needs to be proven as well.

Oh and I agree with the OP btw.