Alien X and the wider Ben 10 Verse

[DragonicDoom]

Hey, just found out some new information from Derrick J Wyatt on the Ben 10 verse that I wanted to share that also involves Alien X. We got the size fo the Multiverse, now officially confirmed to be infinite in size. https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Multiverse_is_Infinite.PNG This had already been speculated but now we have official confirmation; note this refers to universes, not the "ad infinitum" Timelines.

This isn't new but I think it needs to be reiterated, in Ben 10: Ultimate Alien Season 2 Episode 11 (sorry couldn't find a link to the clip), Azmuth describes the Map of Infinity as a "complete map of space-time" that "extends through 17 dimensions". This should imply that the entire Ben 10 Verse is 17th Dimensional, including the Forge of Creation, as the Map can take you anywhere, including other universes with vastly different physics https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Alternate_Universes_With_Same_Physics.PNG . This should confirm Alien X has 17th Dimensional power if he was able to recreate this 17th Dimensional universe with ease. Furthermore, this Universe contains every alternate timeline in the show, of which there are 20 confirmed, some of which were confirmed by Derrick J Wyatt to not appear in the show but are part of the Ben 10 Verse https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/File:Unseen_Universes.png. Now, while these are referred to as "Alternate Universes" they are described like Timelines so that's what we'll assume they are. The Ben 10 Wiki lists Ben 23 and Mad Ben's worlds as Dimensions, not Timelines, though based on how they operate they should exist as alternate Timelines (e.g. Ben 23 Timeline occurs because Grandpa Max dies when Ben is young, so he has no-one to mentor him). Moreover, each and every Timeline contains at least 104 Pocket/Parallel Dimensions (Dagon's Dimension, the 99 Dimensions he enslaved, the Dimension Ben lives in, the Null Void, Ledgerdomain and Dimension 12 [the robot dimension in case you forgot]). As I'm not an experienced power-scaler so I'm not entirely sure whether this means anything noteworthy at all, I just want to share the facts!

 

[Planck69]

Dimensional Tiering got axxed so the 17th dimension stuff doesn't mean much in itself. As for the infinite statement, we might not use it if it contradicts the already established cosmology in-verse but who knows? As for the pocket dimensions, well they don't add to the size of the timelines but that was interesting to know I guess.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

This was my question about how big the Multiverse is lol

 

[DragonicDoom]

@Planck69 Ok, thanks for clearing that up though.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Actually this was interesting... Ignoring the Infinit universes statement would this actually bring something new to Alien x or the Ben 10 cosmology?

 

[DragonicDoom]

I guess not if Dimensional Tiering isn't a thing anymore. Sorry if I wasted anyone's time.

 

[Planck69]

No problem. This was more coherent than a lot of threads I've seen.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Hmmm i there is nothing much left to do here, but what about the Infinit Universes statement? It seems that Derrick keep really insisting about the Multiverse begin infinite in size

 

[DragonicDoom]

I guess it kind of reinforces Alien X being 2-B, if he is above an infinite Multiverse. I wasn't sure if Pocket Dimensions contributed to size or not, though I guess even if they did we don't know how big any of these dimensions are (probably just universe sized). Other than that I don't think there is anything else.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Ummm should we wait for other ben fans to comment here? Like Greenshifter?

 

[DragonicDoom]

Yeah, I'll leave this open for now so others can join in if they've got anything else.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Yeah we should probably let this thread open

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The cosmology is 2-A. The time stream is stated to be infinite and the Omniverse is said to be infinite. Just because only Ben's universe has ever growing timelines doesn't mean the multiverse is finite.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

True

 

[DragonicDoom]

I've done a bit more reading on the tiering system page and I'm unsure why Alien X doesn't scale using the 17th Dimensional stuff. Is it to do with being infinitely above lower dimensions, is that what he's missing? Does creating/destroying n-Dimensional space work for scaling anymore?

 

[Planck69]

You have to prove that these dimensions are infinitely superior to each other. Just destroying an X-dimensional object is no longer used to scale into Tier 1.

 

[DragonicDoom]

Ok, thanks.

 

[Greenshifter]

@DragonicDoom glad you're back. Anyways the infinite statement was used already and got sorta rejected, the upgrade thread is on hold for now tho because of the forum move so nothing we say would get saved.

 

[Greenshifter]

The rest of what you said is sorta fine (the higher-D stuff lacks evidence so it can't be accepted). The other stuff I am discussing with Doorinmyhouse but glad I'm not the only one who thinks one timeline contains hundreds (or infinite because Gen Rex) dimensions. But this is basically a short resume of what we already knew and depending on the interpretations of the statements you can get anywhere from 2-B to Low 1-C, so best to wait a bit.

 

[DragonicDoom]

Good to be back, though I'm a little curious why it was rejected. Last I checked the rule for Ben 10 was if it doesn't directly contradict canon then its ok. And since this references the multiverse, not the branching timelines, it shouldn't contradict anything.

 

[Greenshifter]

Because Kukui thinks dimensions = timelines... (which would mean Paradox contradicts an infinite multiverse) and Door thinks so as well (not Paradox contradicting it however) and because author statements from Twitter shouldn't be used according to Kukui and Matt and a general thread got made for this. The result was case-by-case as usual and then the opposition somehow saw that as a victory and the statement got left in the background, also Badrimoine being (and I think DemonicDude's friend) the ones to ask Derrick in the first place doesn't help the case + Derrick is an art director.

 

[Greenshifter]

Here's the thread.

 

[DragonicDoom]

Ok, yeah no I heavily disagree with timline = dimension. By that logic the timeline where Gwen screws up the future still exists as alternate dimension, even though the whole mess got cleaned up in that episode. Fair enough with the statement though, I didn't think about that. I assume you mean the 17-D stuff isn't proven to be infinitely above lower dimensions as why its not accepted, which again is fair.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

"1 time line contain hundreds of universes"

... Does that mean each universe is connected to a single time line?

 

[DragonicDoom]

@Badrimoine2019 Not universes, dimensions. The universe is the universe, dimensions refer to stuff like the Null Void and Ledgerdomain. (And again Dimension 23 is a timeline, not a dimension, that's just the writers for Omniverse getting it wrong)

 

[Badrimoine2019]

When you are saying dimension 23 you are talking about the 26 dimensions stuff or inside of ben dimension (Multiverse)?

 

[DragonicDoom]

Dimension 23 refers to the timeline which Ben 23 comes from. I've decided to just ignore the Naljians at this point because people will never agree on them.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

... So it seems that there is nothing left to do here

 

[DragonicDoom]

I guess so, I think all of this will get picked up again on on Greenshifter's thread after the forum move. For now I guess we can close this @Antvasima. (That is how I do it right?)