alien ghost fighting ghost pirate

[JustANormalLemon]

The Flying Dutchman
wandered the sea on his ghost ship in search of treasures and whom to scare, when an object falls from the sky hitting the ocean floor, a spaceship, like a good pirate, decides to plunder the spaceship as soon as he sees it bringing it into his ship, however he soon realizes that something alive is in there that quickly tries to escape, but The Flying Dutchman would not let anyone escape his ship for free, the alien criminal realizing that he always came back to the ship when he fled preparing to face the deep sea pirate

Zs'Skayr Key: Original Series

The Flying Dutchman

Speed is equalized

fight happens on the pirate ship

 

[Psychomaster35]

I see you’re new here, but do note that you made a stomp matchup. Next time you do this, please check the tiers and abilities before you do the match.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I thought Flying Dutchman's hax would be enough to not be a stomp...

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I see you’re new here, but do note that you made a stomp matchup. Next time you do this, please check the tiers and abilities before you do the match.

then I close this Thread?

 

[Imaginym]

The Flying Dutchman
wandered the sea on his ghost ship in search of treasures and whom to scare, when an object falls from the sky hitting the ocean floor, a spaceship, like a good pirate, decides to plunder the spaceship as soon as he sees it bringing it into his ship, however he soon realizes that something alive is in there that quickly tries to escape, but The Flying Dutchman would not let anyone escape his ship for free, the alien criminal realizing that he always came back to the ship when he fled preparing to face the deep sea pirate

Zs'Skayr Key: Original Series

The Flying Dutchman

Speed is not equalized

fight happens on the pirate ship

With Speed Unequalized, Relativistic Zs'Skayr speedblitzes The Flying Dutchman.
Also, due to Soul Manipulation, he can destroy The Flying Dutchman's soul, which is, obviously, all that the The Flying Dutchman is. Insta-deader-than-dead.

Also:
Regeneration (High over time; Ben stated that even if Zs'Skayr has been shredded to atoms, he'll be back, and has done it multiple times)

I question how scientifically knowledgeable of an alien's biological capabilities are on an atomic level Ben Tennyson is, especially since he is often noted as not that book smart.
Still, if we're to take Ben's word as scientific fact, & Zs'Skayr has indeed, Regenerated from mere atoms, & can do so in a combat applicable timeframe, that's a problem.


With Speed Equalized, The Dutchman MAY have a chance, though.
BFR (Can send people into The Void, the Fly of Despair and Davy Jones' Locker. His ship cannot be left by natural means, as people will instantly find themselves back in there, should they try to escape, and the only way out is through a door that leads to a perfume department)

AFAIK, Zs'Skayr has no answer to being BFR'd. Is it in-character for The Flying Dutchman to do so immediately, as his first move?
Relatedly:
limited Creation (Materialised a chest to put Patrick and Spongebob in, and then a bridge to take them onto his ship), Soul Manipulation (Took the souls of Spongebob and his friends in The Legends of Boo-kini Bottom)

Another possibility: Illusion Creation (Created several illusions to terrify Squidward in Ghost Host)
Might be relevant; If Zs'Skayr doesn't know what he's dealing with or where his opponent is, he's less able to attack where his opponent is to one-shot them, as he would.

Electricity Manipulation, Mind Manipulation (Turned Plankton into his minion with a single zap)
Zs'Skayr seems to lack Resistance to these. Mind Manip, GG?

Magic (Can grant wishes)
If offered a Wish, what might Zs'Skayr wish for in this context? What are some ways such wishes could be turned against him, as a would-be Jerk Genie like The Flying Dutchman might?

Also:
Teleportation (Used in Shanghaied to block SpongeBob and Patrick from leaving his ship with his dining sock, and in Born Again Krabs to transport himself and Mr. Krabs to Davy Jones' Locker),
May be useful for avoiding Zs'Skayr's attacks, or maneuvering him into more favorable positions.
Fear Manipulation
Zs'Skayr has, funnily enough, no resistance to it, & your opponent being paralyzed (As in, inactive.) is pretty good when you have several ways to quickly win against them.


So, uhhh, yeah. Equalize speed, & The Flying Dutchman appears to have SEVERAL win conditions, many of which Zs'Skayr lacks an answer or Resistance to..

 

[JustANormalLemon]

With Speed Unequalized, Relativistic Zs'Skayr speedblitzes The Flying Dutchman.
Also, due to Soul Manipulation, he can destroy The Flying Dutchman's soul, which is, obviously, all that the The Flying Dutchman is. Insta-deader-than-dead.

Also:
Regeneration (High over time; Ben stated that even if Zs'Skayr has been shredded to atoms, he'll be back, and has done it multiple times)

I question how scientifically knowledgeable of an alien's biological capabilities are on an atomic level Ben Tennyson is, especially since he is often noted as not that book smart.
Still, if we're to take Ben's word as scientific fact, & Zs'Skayr has indeed, Regenerated from mere atoms, & can do so in a combat applicable timeframe, that's a problem.


With Speed Equalized, The Dutchman MAY have a chance, though.
BFR (Can send people into The Void, the Fly of Despair and Davy Jones' Locker. His ship cannot be left by natural means, as people will instantly find themselves back in there, should they try to escape, and the only way out is through a door that leads to a perfume department)

AFAIK, Zs'Skayr has no answer to being BFR'd. Is it in-character for The Flying Dutchman to do so immediately, as his first move?
Relatedly:
limited Creation (Materialised a chest to put Patrick and Spongebob in, and then a bridge to take them onto his ship), Soul Manipulation (Took the souls of Spongebob and his friends in The Legends of Boo-kini Bottom)

Another possibility: Illusion Creation (Created several illusions to terrify Squidward in Ghost Host)
Might be relevant; If Zs'Skayr doesn't know what he's dealing with or where his opponent is, he's less able to attack where his opponent is to one-shot them, as he would.

Electricity Manipulation, Mind Manipulation (Turned Plankton into his minion with a single zap)
Zs'Skayr seems to lack Resistance to these. Mind Manip, GG?

Magic (Can grant wishes)
If offered a Wish, what might Zs'Skayr wish for in this context? What are some ways such wishes could be turned against him, as a would-be Jerk Genie like The Flying Dutchman might?

Also:
Teleportation (Used in Shanghaied to block SpongeBob and Patrick from leaving his ship with his dining sock, and in Born Again Krabs to transport himself and Mr. Krabs to Davy Jones' Locker),
May be useful for avoiding Zs'Skayr's attacks, or maneuvering him into more favorable positions.
Fear Manipulation
Zs'Skayr has, funnily enough, no resistance to it, & your opponent being paralyzed (As in, inactive.) is pretty good when you have several ways to quickly win against them.


So, uhhh, yeah. Equalize speed, & The Flying Dutchman appears to have SEVERAL win conditions, many of which Zs'Skayr lacks an answer or Resistance to..

did I write that it was not equalized? I barely noticed, it was supposed to be equalized, I'll edit it here, thanks

and the rest you said, that's basically why I chose these two to fight

so it's not a stomp?

 

[Imaginym]

Both characters do have achievable win conditions, & it's more feasible for either to win with Speed Equalized, so I would presume it is not a Stomp.
It is a Stomp in the Tier Stomp sense....
....but being unable to deal with your opponent's Attack Potency, Striking Strength or Durability don't always entirely prevent one from being able to win, nor does being Speedblitzed always entirely prevent one from being able to win.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

so it’s not a stomp, I’ve already equalized the speed, and considering Standard Battle Assumptions, the flying Dutchman has enough conditions to win, maybe Zs'Skayr may wish to leave if the Dutchman allows the same to place orders, as the fight happens on the Dutch ship, he could also find a way out to the perfume store, but it wouldn’t be immediate

 

[Imaginym]

maybe Zs'Skayr may wish to leave if the Dutchman allows the same to place orders, as the fight happens on the Dutch ship,

What do you mean by this?

he could also find a way out to the perfume store, but it wouldn’t be immediate

What do we know about said perfume store?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

What do you mean by this?

I'm going to rephrase. it would be very unlikely that the flying Dutchman would give Zs'Skayr wishes to use

What do we know about said perfume store?

this

 

[Greenshifter]

I question how scientifically knowledgeable of an alien's biological capabilities are on an atomic level Ben Tennyson is, especially since he is often noted as not that book smart

He got a 95 on Plumber Test whereas Gwen got a 97. He also talks with Kevin about alien weaponry and technology. He’s smart, he just doesn’t show it and he quite literally has access to Ghostfreak’s biology. High regen is not combat applicable though.

If offered a Wish, what might Zs'Skayr wish for in this context?

Complete control over the universe/shaping it into his image?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Complete control over the universe/shaping it into his image?

Wishing is irrelevant, since the flying Dutchman would have to give the option of wishing to Zs'Skayr in the first place, which isn't likely in this situation

but I think it would be something like that, although I doubt that the flying Dutchman will be able to fulfill such wish

 

[Imaginym]

He got a 95 on Plumber Test whereas Gwen got a 97.

I'd assume there's more to that test than scientific knowledge, & I'd question how much of it is concerned with knowledge of the functionality of alien biology at an atomic level. Certainly not all of it.

He also talks with Kevin about alien weaponry and technology.

Talks about the weaponry how?

He’s smart, he just doesn’t show it and he quite literally has access to Ghostfreak’s biology. High regen is not combat applicable though.

Being able to be transformed into another species by technology does not necessarily mean you understand -especially completely- that species's biology.

Still, despite my skepticism, I appreciate your input on this matter. (Although, context/scans/footage may be valuable for your claims, even if they are for a matter that's largely irrelevant; I doubt Zs'Skayr's level of Regeneration will come up in this sort of battle.)

Wishing is irrelevant, since the flying Dutchman would have to give the option of wishing to Zs'Skayr in the first place, which isn't likely in this situation

but I think it would be something like that, although I doubt that the flying Dutchman will be able to fulfill such wish

Yes, but the point is being able to twist such a wish against Zs'Skayr, were he to offer it.

"I want an entire galaxy mine to monitor & control!"
"Sure!" [Throws him into a pocket dimension with a miniature galaxy, all small enough Zs'Skayr can see the entirety of it from one location, & leaving him, ostensibly, trapped there.)

But yeah, it's dubious if it would come up at all, & it's FAR from The Flying Dutchman's only win condition here, anyway.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Flying Dutchman win Cons:
-trap Zs'Skayr on the voide
-trap Zs'Skayr in Dave Jones' closet
-transform Zs'Skayr into one of his minions with mind manipulation
-rip off the soul of Zs'Skayr, who despite being a phantom alien, is still technically a biological creature and not a real ghost
-curse Zs'Skayr in some way and turn it into a fruit (as he did with spongebob when he wished the flying Dutchman to become vegetarian)
-give wishes to Zs'Skayr and use it against him (unlikely)

Zs'Skayr win Cons:
-destroy the soul of the flying Dutchman
-make a wish that the Dutch cannot use against him (more unlikely)

looking at the Zs'Skayr wiki, he can't do much more than that against type 7 immortality

 

[Greenshifter]

I'd assume there's more to that test than scientific knowledge, & I'd question how much of it is concerned with knowledge of the functionality of alien biology at an atomic level. Certainly not all of it.

Fair. Gwen did mention he’s very underperforming in school, which is obvious considering his future self is a genius.

Talks about the weaponry how?

Kevin’s like “it looks like this and that, what is it?” (Essentially a riddle) and Ben answers something like Incursean cruiser with ion drive. Which implies he at least knows what an ion drive is.

Being able to be transformed into another species by technology does not necessarily mean you understand -especially completely- that species's biology.

The Omnitrix gives Ben knowledge on an aliens’ natural instincts and the like upon transforming into him and Ben usually trains to figure out his abilities.

 

[Greenshifter]

What prevents Zs’skayr from going intangible and invisible and slicing through him? Would type 7 stop that?

You can also argue Zs’skayr has no mana and thus no soul.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

What prevents Zs’skayr from going intangible and invisible and slicing through him? Would type 7 stop that?

You can also argue Zs’skayr has no mana and thus no soul.

the fact that the flying Dutchman probably wouldn’t stand still watching him disappear suddenly + experience in dealing with real ghosts + type 7 immortality and immaterial intangibility, while that of Zs'Skayr would be of the "Phasing" type

 

[Imaginym]

the fact that the flying Dutchman probably wouldn’t stand still watching him disappear suddenly + experience in dealing with real ghosts + type 7 immortality and immaterial intangibility, while that of Zs'Skayr would be of the "Phasing" type

Also, Teleportation? Also, what happens if The Flying Dutchman just opens a portal in Zs'Skayr's path as he rushes towards him?
Also, Speed Equalized means Zs'Skayr rushing in for melee doesn't deprive The Flying Dutchman of an opportunity to waggle his fingers or whatever to apply some hax.

Also, would this kill a Type 7 Immortal? Why specify that he goes Intangible? Is it a necessity for him to physically destroy a soul to go intangible first?

You can also argue Zs’skayr has no mana and thus no soul.

My apologies, but I'm not sure, which, if any of The Flying Dutchman's options this affects. How do they change when dealing with a soul-less being?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

it reminds me, the battle has to be at night, since Zs'Skayr is weak in the sun, which technically would be another Dutch con win if he can keep the fight until the sun rises and put Zs'Skayr in the Sun

Also, what happens if The Flying Dutchman just opens a portal in Zs'Skayr's path as he rushes towards him?

he would enter the portal, but Zs'Skayr can be invisible to trick the flying Dutchman, but it wouldn't help that much

My apologies, but I'm not sure, which, if any of The Flying Dutchman's options this affects. How do they change when dealing with a soul-less being?

would deny the flying Dutchman to tear his soul out of his body

 

[JustANormalLemon]

What prevents Zs’skayr from going intangible and invisible and slicing through him? Would type 7 stop that?

yes, physical attacks wouldn't make much difference, and I don't think their intangibilities would cancel out, even if it made a difference

You can also argue Zs’skayr has no mana and thus no soul.

if that can be counted, is better to update the Zs'Skayr wiki and put that he is immune to souls manipulation since he has no mana

 

[Imaginym]

yes, physical attacks wouldn't make much difference, and I don't think their intangibilities would cancel out, even if it made a difference

If you'll forgive my asking, please, how do you mean by this? For Intangible & not Intangible, how do they match-up in the states they can be in?

if that can be counted, is better to update the Zs'Skayr wiki and put that he is immune to souls manipulation since he has no mana

Unsure, but this may need a CRT. Also, what's the evidence in Ben 10 that having no Mana = Having no Souls? Wasn't Mana eventually revealed to be an alien race thing?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

If you'll forgive my asking, please, how do you mean by this? For Intangible & not Intangible, how do they match-up in the states they can be in?

the Dutch has intangible passive intangibility of the type, Zs'Skayr would have the non passive Phasing type

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I can bump already?

 

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bump, does anyone already want to vote?

 

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