Aizen Sousuke VS Kaguya Ootsutsuki

[AppleLord]

Kaguya has no feats on that, powers and abilities don't power scale like that, there are things that Kaguya doesn't even know.

Not at all. I'm not saying she can't use it. I'm saying she didn't use it on combat. Granted that could be preta style, but who knows it was never stated. What was stated is that she possess the Sharingan.

Not question about that.

Oh, but Aizen can dodge it. Kaguya is not very intelligent to come up with that plan either, anyway he can use kido or absorb it. Sasuke was able to say amateratsu while been freeze, and someone weaker than Aizen was able to free himself from absolute zero with his reiatsu. Hitsugaya also freeze Aizen. What temperature is her ice planet?

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

@AppleLord

Sorry. What I meant when I said Bakudo #26 won't be effective on Kaguya is that it essentially makes the user invisible. Sasuke has seen invisible clones and Naruto has sensed them. Considering that her visual prowess is superior to Sasuke's and her sensing should be at least on par with Naruto's, I don't see Bakudo #26 having any effect against Kaguya.

I believe I've already addressed Kaguya and the Rinnegan stuff. She's a victim of CIS and so is Madara. Unless you can somehow tell me that Madara can't use most of the Rinnegan techniques because he didn't showcase them when Pain was using them with his Rinnegan. It's CIS/PIS. I've already mentioned that Kaguya was using Preta Path when she was absorbing Naruto and Sasuke's chakra. Can you explain how she can do this without the use of the Rinnegan?

Kaguya didn't use Infinite Tsukuyomi because it had already been activated when she entered the battle. Even Madara used it, so why wouldn't she be able to?

Since they start fighting in the Gravity Dimension where it will be holding them down, if Aizen attacks with his Hado, she either absorbs it or tanks it. Meanwhile, if Kaguya hits with her ash bones, he won't be able to regenerate since his Regenerationn is cellular in nature. Though I'm not too sure about this.

She can switch to her ice dimension and easily trap Aizen in ice like she did to Naruto and Sasuke. They only escaped due to Sasuke's Amaterasu. Does Aizen have something like that? Once he's trapped there, she can absorb his reiryoku or knock him out with Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack since her AP is superior to his durability.

How Bakudo 26 makes the user invisible is very different from how the limbo clones are invisible. I'm not going to assume that Sasuke can see things that are invisible just based on the inference that he can see Limbo clones.

The limbo clones is a six paths ability. An aspect of the rinnegan is to see the limbo clones. Bakudo 26 is not a six paths ability.

 

[AppleLord]

He's been affected by Shinji's Shikai; which is basically like being put under a Genjutsu.

Genjutsu controls all five senses, Shinji's shikai inverts the five senses very different. It also affected Aizen who is a soul, Infinite Tsukuyumi hasn't been shown to affect souls or things with a spiritual body as Susan'o.

It's more likely that Sasuke's Susano'o managed to block Infinite Tsukuyomi because he had Six Paths chakra, not because it was an ethereal body.
The only thing Infinite Tsukuyomi hadn't affected is the Edo Reanimations, and an explanation for that still hasn't been given. Even if it is due to them being Edo Reanimations, that still isn't proof that it is incapable of affecting dead people.
If you're going to equalize Aizen = Edo Reanimations then that means also giving him an infinite supply of chakra.

It still has no feats of been able to affect ethereal bodies.

They are dead. It affected them. Is more reliable than speculating about other assumptions.

Chakra equals Reiatsu here right? Mayuri explain that the reiatsu of an immortal cannot be stop, and as long as the heart beats it will continue to produce Reiatsu. In a sense you're right he does have an infinite supply

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Anyone that has Rinnegan should be able to use the techniques that comes with it. I've already explained that Kaguya is a victim of CIS. Or else how would she be able to use Preta Path and not have access to the other techniques of the Rinnegan? How else can she absorb ninjutsu if it isn't Preta Path? It's not like Kishimoto will be reminding us about what Preta Path can do. Both the Rinnegan and Sharingan are subsets of the Rinne Sharingan. If it was an evolution to a dōjutsu like Mangekyō Sharingan to Sharingan and Tenseigan to Byakugan, I would concede that Kaguya can't use it.

@Uchihazinon

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Sorry but you phrased your sentence like the Rinnegan was specially made to see Limbo. Nobody has Limbo except Madara. The fact that Sasuke was able to see them just means he can see invisible beings. Bakudo #26 makes Aizen invisible. Kaguya can see invisible beings in the form of Limbo. Just because they're activated in different ways doesn't take away from the main fact at hand here which is invisibility. Or will Kaguya be unable to see Jiraiya when he uses his invisibility jutsu because it works differently from Limbo? Or won't she be able to see Nagato if he hides in his chameleon because it works differently from Limbo?

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

But it sounds like what you are saying is that Kaguya can see any technique that is invisible.

The techniques are not just activated differently they are different in nature.

Limbo are shadow clones from the world of limbo. Just because Sasuke can see them does not mean he can see any invisible being.

Not all invisible beings are from limbo. Aizen's technique is not from limbo. Aizen's ability bends light to do so.

 

[AppleLord]

I always here people say that all Rinnegan users have all the Rinnegan techniques yet they never use them in combat, they must be useless or they simply don't know them. Am I to believe in this assumptions when the manga contradicts some hyperbole? No.

 

[AppleLord]

Kaguya can see invisible beings in the form of Limbo.

Show me a scan of Kaguya seeing a Limbo clone, or that her sharingan is capable of that.

 

[AppleLord]

This explains the difference about Sasuke and Kaguya's eyes with proof: http://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/21478/is-sasukes-new-dojutsu-same-as-kaguyas-third-eye

 

[AppleLord]

Kaguya doesn't possess Rinnegan abilities .

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Rinne_Sharinga

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Uchihazinon

Are you honestly trying to say that Kaguya or Sasuke won't see Jiraiya when he uses his invisibility jutsu? I did some searching on the Naruto Wiki and I saw an article on Meisaigakure no Jutsu. It works like Bakudo #26 too given that they both control how light is reflected around their body and it says it can be negated by those with special visual or sensory skills. I hope that's enough proof for you?

@AppleLord

It's not hyperbole. Madara also didn't use the other techniques of his Rinnegan yet Pain used everything and he was in possession of Madara's Rinnegan. Just because he didn't use it doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I'll check up on those links in a bit.

 

[Amlad22]

I agree that just because someone didn't use something doesn't mean they don't have it. Going by that logic Aizen can't use every kido because he hasn't actually used them.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Okay. I checked them but I don't understand what you're getting at. Kaguya's Rinne Sharingan is superior to Sasuke's Rinnegan. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying they're the same. The Naruto Wiki says the Rinne Sharingan possesses the ocular powers of the Sharingan so why would it not possess the Rinnegan's too since she can absorb chakra? Will she get the ability magically? Her Rinne Sharingan gives her the power to switch dimensions. Therefore, everything points to her using Preta Path to absorb chakra. Anyway, I'll drop the topic of her being able to use the Rinnegan techniques apart from Preta Path for now.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

@Uchihazinon

Are you honestly trying to say that Kaguya or Sasuke won't see Jiraiya when he uses his invisibility jutsu? I did some searching on the Naruto Wiki and I saw an article on Meisaigakure no Jutsu. It works like Bakudo #26 too given that they both control how light is reflected around their body and it says it can be negated by those with special visual or sensory skills. I hope that's enough proof for you?

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord

It's not hyperbole. Madara also didn't use the other techniques of his Rinnegan yet Pain used everything and he was in possession of Madara's Rinnegan. Just because he didn't use it doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I'll check up on those links in a bit.

That just means they are dean useless in combat or they don't how to do them.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

If iirc, the Naruto wikia page about Kaguya has Chakra Absorption under "Unique Abilities" and not "Jutsu".


And Jiraiya's Camouflage technique :


" This is a ninja escape technique that allows the user to control how light is reflected around their body with chakra inflections. The technique also erases the user's scent and shadow, and is usable on any terrain, making it ideal not only for covert manoeuvres but also offensive strikes"

 

[AppleLord]

I agree that just because someone didn't use something doesn't mean they don't have it. Going by that logic Aizen can't use every kido because he hasn't actually used them.

I've not mention a kido that he hasn't done before, your point?

 

[AppleLord]

Okay. I checked them but I don't understand what you're getting at. Kaguya's Rinne Sharingan is superior to Sasuke's Rinnegan. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying they're the same. The Naruto Wiki says the Rinne Sharingan possesses the ocular powers of the Sharingan so why would it not possess the Rinnegan's too since she can absorb chakra? Will she get the ability magically? Her Rinne Sharingan gives her the power to switch dimensions. Therefore, everything points to her using Preta Path to absorb chakra. Anyway, I'll drop the topic of her being able to use the Rinnegan techniques apart from Preta Path for now.

Assumptions are not allowed. We don't know what ability she use to absorb chakra, but we do know that she doesn't possess a Rinnegan.

 

[AppleLord]

Are you honestly trying to say that Kaguya or Sasuke won't see Jiraiya when he uses his invisibility jutsu? I did some searching on the Naruto Wiki and I saw an article on Meisaigakure no Jutsu. It works like Bakudo #26 too given that they both control how light is reflected around their body and it says it can be negated by those with special visual or sensory skills. I hope that's enough proof for you?


Except for particularly adept users, who can completely erase even their chakra signature with it.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiding_with_Camouflage_Technique

Which is what Bakudo #26 does when hiding the reiatsu pressence, of course if it is equalize as you say. This is done by controlling the light reflected around their body, not bending light.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why are ppl saying Aizen being a soul means he is immune or even resistant to mind hax? That's not only a huge NLF but it's also quite ridiculous. Souls in bleach are no different than humans other than having ridiculously higher spirit energy. They age, they grow, they get hungry, they can die, etc. They are not like actual ghosts.

Btw, why can't Black Zetsu be here? He's a creation of Kaguya's with her will in him so theres no reason Y cant he be here with her.

 

[Amlad22]

Soul reapers in bleach are dead by human standards. The same way the edo's from Naruto are.

Also black zetsu would just get put under Kyoka and wouldn't be able to help Kaguya

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Considering that BZ wasn't put under IT I doubt that. And no they arent really "dead".

 

[AppleLord]

Considering that BZ wasn't put under IT I doubt that. And no they arent really "dead".

Black Zetsu is Kaguya's will he's just an an extention of her, if she wasn't affected why would he be affected by infinite Tsukuyumi.

Would you say that they don't die, and are graned life instead? Just because you don't share the same religion as them, doesn't mean they aren't dead. I already explain this above, their afterlife is base on reincarnation. Souls have to die in a realm made of Reishi (includes organs) where no human can enter unless their body is converted into Reishi. (Reishi is matter for souls)

 

[AppleLord]

Why are ppl saying Aizen being a soul means he is immune or even resistant to mind hax? That's not only a huge NLF but it's also quite ridiculous.

No one is saying that. Quite the opposite actually, we are waiting confirmation or proof that it works on ethereal beings. Saying it would without proof is NLF.

 

[AppleLord]

Souls in bleach are no different than humans other than having ridiculously higher spirit energy. They age, they grow, they get hungry, they can die, etc. They are not like actual ghosts.

You need to go and re-read or watch the first two arcs, If you believe things are that simple. Everything was explain and has a reason. I don't want to write walls of text, so help yourself.

 

[AppleLord]

Btw, why can't Black Zetsu be here? He's a creation of Kaguya's with her will in him so theres no reason Y cant he be here with her.

He isn't in her profile, it will be consider a 2 v 1. However, you're free to open a thread and ask for him to be added to her page. Then he can be use here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That's not entirely true as there are some souls who are born strictly in the SS. They don't have immortality at best they have Longevity (which even that seems kinda doubtful). Also where and when did Religion come into this?

And no it's not. It's not an NLF if someone has no actual resistance to something and no feats to back it up. Aizen has 0 feats of resisting mind hax as he was clearly put under Shinjis even if very briefly. In addition, like I said before, a soul in Bleach is not like a real actual ghost. They aren't intangible, they grow, they eat, they age, they can die and so on like any other human. With the exception of ridiculously higher spirit energy to make them unsensible, a soul and and a living human in bleach are literally the same thing with the same limits.

 

[Amlad22]

Aizen has been shown to be put under mind hax but he has also shown to be able to break out of it very easily.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Aizen has been shown to be put under mind hax but he has also shown to be able to break out of it very easily.

Mainly because of Shinji's ass blabbering on about its abilities in total detail. Plus his KS was on Shinji so we dont even know if Shinji even truly unleashed Inverted World when Aizen could have been trolling him the entire time by controlling his 5 senses.

 

[Amlad22]

Shinji defiantly used it since he cut Aizen. Kyoka was most likely the main reason he escaped so this just shows that if Aizen puts Kyoka on Kaguya he can maybe find a way to escape any genjutsu

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But the question here is if KS can even work on Kaguya and thats being currently talked about. Generally speaking she should have no problem resisting it given she can cast IT and weaker characters have good resistance to mind hax.

 

[Amlad22]

Assume Aizen uses Kyoka at the start of the match. Kaguya wouldn't know that Aizen used an illusion move. Would she even be able to figure it out? She's not very battle smart and she is without zetsu in this match

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Zetsu is a creation of hers so there's no reason why he is not here in this match. Besides which BZ was also immune to the effects of IT and as the creator of him Kaguya should also logically have the immunity as well.

 

[PaChi2]

1. Mangekyou sharing can use: Tsukoyomi, which is above KS in terms of illusionary power (Aizen cannot make someone live a lifespan in seconds, which itachi can).

2. Dont remember which were thr conditions, but izanagi (which can make your own death illusion) is a sharingan thing.

3. IT is a rinnengan jutsu that can put people into a coma-like state in which they dream (tho probably this was madara's doing since he wanted a peaceful work, but is just speculation).

4. Rinnengan is above any sharingan jutsu by default, it grants resistance to visual illusions, so KS, as its release requires you to look at the sword, falls under thise category.

Point is: saying KS will work on kaguya is doubtful.

 

[AppleLord]

That's not entirely true as there are some souls who are born strictly in the SS. They don't have immortality at best they have Longevity (which even that seems kinda doubtful). Also where and when did Religion come into this?

The first line is an opinion. Second line has nothing to do with them being spirits. Third they have their own law and rules, they cannot be harm by anything that doesn't have reishi or reiatsu.

 

[AppleLord]

And no it's not. It's not an NLF if someone has no actual resistance to something and no feats to back it up. Aizen has 0 feats of resisting mind hax as he was clearly put under Shinjis even if very briefly.

Are you saying that Infinite Tsukuyumi can affect ethereal beings, without feats? Ok, i'll way for a scan of infinite Tsukuyumi working on a ethereal being. Yes, he easily adapted to it and break out of it. Just because Shinji told him doesn't mean is ease. Try playing a video game with inverted controls and learn to play like that in seconds.

 

[PaChi2]

^tbh, Shinji was under KS the whole scene, so its possible Aizen was just trolling him.

Also: playing a videogame with inverted controls is, at best, an intelligence feat, not a resistance to mind hax. Aizen didnt dispell shinji's technique, he just fought under it, its not proof.

 

[AppleLord]

In addition, like I said before, a soul in Bleach is not like a real actual ghost. They aren't intangible, they grow, they eat, they age, they can die and so on like any other human. With the exception of ridiculously higher spirit energy to make them unsensible, a soul and and a living human in bleach are literally the same thing with the same limits.

The only thing in common they have with humans is that they were one's humans themselves, have kids and grow old. They eat but is not for the same reason that humans eat. They live in an astral world where humans can't go without spiritual bodies. All in SS are souls even if they are born there when they die they will reincarnate in the human world without memories of their past life. Now are you saying they gain life instead of dying? Now i'll ask you what lie did i said?

 

[AppleLord]

1. Mangekyou sharing can use: Tsukoyomi, which is above KS in terms of illusionary power (Aizen cannot make someone live a lifespan in seconds, which itachi can).
2. Dont remember which were thr conditions, but izanagi (which can make your own death illusion) is a sharingan thing.

3. IT is a rinnengan jutsu that can put people into a coma-like state in which they dream (tho probably this was madara's doing since he wanted a peaceful work, but is just speculation).

4. Rinnengan is above any sharingan jutsu by default, it grants resistance to visual illusions, so KS, as its release requires you to look at the sword, falls under thise category.

Point is: saying KS will work on kaguya is doubtful.

Those points are irrelevant, we already adressed them above. All were debunked. Genjutsu has no feats of working in ethereal bodies and Kaguya doesn't have a Rinnegan. Her chakra absorbing power is listed as an unique ability even in her wiki page. Show evidence of both and we can go on.

 

[PaChi2]

point wasnt about IT working on aizen, but KS on kaguya.

 

[AppleLord]

^tbh, Shinji was under KS the whole scene, so its possible Aizen was just trolling him.
Also: playing a videogame with inverted controls is, at best, an intelligence feat, not a resistance to mind hax. Aizen didnt dispell shinji's technique, he just fought under it, its not proof.

Aizen got cut, and wasn't able to react to it at first.

He can still fight while been under mind control. That's a feat. What stopping Aizen from putting himself under KS to control his senses, KS is more durable than any Genjutsu.