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Aizen regen downgrade

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It has to do with Mugestu because im arguing against the method of how Quincies destroy souls, which Mugetsu takes advantage of and is an important factor to this discussion.

Okay.

I meant in terms of the "stronger spirit attacks destroying souls point" from me that Shinigami and Hollows are no different from Quincy destroying souls. And if Sui-Feng never actually touched Aizen with her hax because his Reiatsu was used as a shield like you said, that helps my argument more actually.

It actually doesn't because like I said Askin 1 shotted Ichigo and Lille Barro himself who doesn't have much going for AP can practicaly solo the entire soul society without the Ise family heirloom weapon designed specifically for gods.Sui-Feng needs to actually piece the person for the effects to take place,and as far we know it doesn't bypass anything if it can't pierce you.

You mean the Sokyoku right? Seeing as it's just a large weapon made out of a million zanpakuto, which obviously come from soul reapers, i'd say it should count for Shinigami destroying weaker souls. But my point was more focus on Shinigami being able to damage souls with stronger spiritual power to follow up with why im saying Quincy can. An example would be that Uryu's spirit arrows couldnt put a scratch on Menos Grande, so he literally wanted Ichigo to pour his spirit energy into Uryu so that his spirit arrows would be strong enough to hurt the Menos. That, and Ichigo forced away Menos Grande by damaging it with a massive spirit attack. Thats different from the normal clensing Shinigami do, suggesting they can destroy inferior souls if they wanted to but choose not to for it would break the cycle.

The Sokyoku isn't made for 1,000,000 Zanpaktou it only has the strength of them which in itself is unquantifable and probably an exaggeration considering Ichigo 1 shotted it.Bit it does indeed vaporize the soul as a method of execution.

As for the Menos Grande,it's a hollow made of up of hundreds of other hollows that would stomp unnamed soul reapers.And i'm not sure where your going with your Uryu anology,he absorbed Ichigo's energy in order to save his life becuase his Zanpakuto was going out of control due to what he just did.He didn't kill the Menos so how would Ichigo cleanse it? Your doing alot of theory crafting tbh.


Basically, my argument isnt denying Quincy being able to destroy souls, it's questioning how they do it. The method.

  • Shinigami>kill>cleanse spirit>return to the cycle.
  • Quincy>kill>???>???.
 
@Imade

I literally never said it was made out of millions of zanpakuto, only a million. Re-read my reply please.

@Siguard

What was Askins hax again? He's a Quincy who I don't care for so I don't remember his powers. And as for Sui-Feng, if her hax actually has to specifically pierce the opponent, thats also impyling her hax is limited by the power of the opponent. Aka if they're too strong, she can't pierece them.

Made out of, has the power of, whatever. The point is the Sokyoku has the strength of those zanpakuto. And what does Ichigo easily besting it have to do with anything? I never said the weapon was made up of anything above average zanpakuto. It wouldn't make sense if it did.

A hollow made up of a 100 fodder level hollows. If the soul reaper in question is just ordinary, you'd be right. Normally it takes the task force or a captain to quickly dispose of it.

And as for Uryu, him saving Ichigo wasn't what I was talking about. What I meant was before Ichigo forced away the Menos, Uryu discovered Ichigo was unconsciously releasing extreme levels of spirit energy due to how low his skill of using it was at the time. So because of that, Uryu had the idea or attaching Ichigos Zanpakuto to himself so that it would strengthen his quincy bow with Ichigos spirit energy to damage the menos. And did I say Ichigo would clense it? No. He didnt kill the Menos but he did still damage it with a massive spirit attack with his Zanpakuto. That isnt clensing because the Menos didnt die so what else would it be besides damaging it with superior spirit energy?

@LSirLancelot

Im questioning if Quincies destroying souls is just using superior spirit energy against weaker souls instead of it being a pure hax ability.

Like how everyone and their mother in Dragon Ball can disintegrate weaker opponents with stronger KI blasts but not everyone gets Disintegration as an actual ability. Its just them destroying weaker targets to such an extent via power that overwhelms them.
 
Em, no...? It's specifically pointed out the reason Shinigami didn't approve of Quincy was due to that special quality of their powers. Zanpakutou purify hollows and that's it, the soul gets free and becomes part of the cycle. Isshin was monstrously stronger than the Grand Fisher when he fodderized him after it became an Imperfect Hollow, but his soul wasn't destroyed.

If you are bringing up the Executioner Sword as part of that argument, I am not really sure that says much. Ishida was killing hollows easily but I doubt the difference between them and him is like a bound Rukia versus the Sokyoku.
 
What was Askins hax again? He's a Quincy who I don't care for so I don't remember his powers. And as for Sui-Feng, if her hax actually has to specifically pierce the opponent, thats also impyling her hax is limited by the power of the opponent. Aka if they're too strong, she can't pierece them.

Dude your argument has literally nothing to do with this thread,and the abiliy of Askin is Deathdealing,he can manipulate the lethal dosage of things to kill you and grant himself immunity that is how he 1 shotted Ichigo.NaNaNa immobilized Aizen with Underbelly by analyzing his spiritual pressure as well.

Made out of, has the power of, whatever. The point is the Sokyoku has the strength of those zanpakuto. And what does Ichigo easily besting it have to do with anything? I never said the weapon was made up of anything above average zanpakuto. It wouldn't make sense if it did.

Kind of like most of things you been saying or asking,it mostly has nothing to do with this topic it's kind of like filler.The Sokyoku is a device of unknown origin that is used for execution by vaporizing the soul.

A hollow made up of a 100 fodder level hollows. If the soul reaper in question is just ordinary, you'd be right. Normally it takes the task force or a captain to quickly dispose of it.

And? what is your point here? I know how a Menos is formed I said this.

And as for Uryu, him saving Ichigo wasn't what I was talking about. What I meant was before Ichigo forced away the Menos, Uryu discovered Ichigo was unconsciously releasing extreme levels of spirit energy due to how low his skill of using it was at the time. So because of that, Uryu had the idea or attaching Ichigos Zanpakuto to himself so that it would strengthen his quincy bow with Ichigos spirit energy to damage the menos. And did I say Ichigo would clense it? No. He didnt kill the Menos but he did still damage it with a massive spirit attack with his Zanpakuto. That isnt clensing because the Menos didnt die so what else would it be besides damaging it with superior spirit energy?

You pretty much repeated what you and I said here,again what does this have to do with Aizen's regen and Mugetsu? Your argument seems to be about Quincy in general and I suggest you go make a CRT about it,because this here is completely unreleated to the topic at hand. Im questioning if Quincies destroying souls is just using superior spirit energy against weaker souls instead of it being a pure hax ability.

Good luck with that,we know they destroy souls with their attacks and that is all that is revealed about them,and the ability is labeled as Soul Destruction.It's just something they can do.

Like how everyone and their mother in Dragon Ball can disintegrate weaker opponents with stronger KI blasts but not everyone gets Disintegration as an actual ability. Its just them destroying weaker targets to such an extent via power that overwhelms them.

I'm not exactly sure how this is equivalent to soul destruction here,the only comparison you can make with this part is Aizen disintegrating people with his presence.with enough force and power in your moves anyone can disintegrate.Except in the case of DBZ it's not anything special at all,but for Aizen it cause he does it with his mere presence.
 
I find the supposed true nature of Aizen's Regenerationn to be a bit contradictory; he regenerates the spiritual energy produced by his soul, but the Mugetsu destroyed his soul via Quincy-destroying powers... so how did he have a soul to regenerate a body from?

I know IMade made an answer in his long explanation post, but from the looks of it all it is saying is that it doesn't count as soul-destruction when in Soul Society, just body destruction...

Also, I think the assumption that because Zangetsu fused with fake-Zangetsu that the Mugetsu must have Quincy properties to it is just an assumption without it actually being stated anywhere in the manga. At no point does any chapter or databook clarify that that Ichigo's Mugetsu has soul-destroying properties.

I also have still not seen any proof that Mugetsu completely destroy Aizens' body as opposed to just mostly destroying it.

Just because Aizen's body is no longer visible after he Mugetsu cuts him in half, doesn't mean he was completely destroyed down to the last spiritual particle.
 
This thread is still open so I'm going to make another post to simplify an overtly complicated matter.

The question on the table: Should Aizen have Low Godly Regenerationn? Yes, or no.

The definition for which is:

"The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, or something else."

Note this is above all other forms of Regenerationn including low high, high, and mid high which require regen from a cell, vapor, or atoms.

The definition of existance erasure:

"is the power to remove something from existence, reducing it to nothingness. This is a step beyond vaporization or atomization, as this ability makes something vanish completely as opposed to just splitting it into smaller parts."

The limitations to this ability:

"

  • There are abilities, such as for example Low-Godly Regenerationn and above, which can protect from this up to a certain degree of the ability."
Low Godly regneration exists as an alternative to just "high" for when something is reduced to nothing as oposed to its smallest parts. AKA Existance erasure.

Both @Imade and Sig have said what happens to Aizen is NOT existance erasure. They've even cited this many times over. Therefore by the definition of Low Godly regeration what Aizen does (In the opinion of Imade and Sig) is NOT Low Godly regenration.

Its worth noting that many others including but not limited to Damage, Warren, and myself have also pointed this out. Matthew who is the only staff member and bleach expert commenting on this thread that I can see has also pointed out that based on the canon, the burden of proof for Low God regen has not been meat. Citing ther'es not enough evidence to prove Aizen was reduced to nothing as opppsed to particles, vapor, etc,

The reason I bring up Imade and Sig as well is because they are the only ones still arguing for Low God Regenerationn, in spite of the fact their arguments support the downgrade. Therefore anyone who has cited rejection of the downgrade for no other reason besides "I agree with Imade/Snake" is actually agreeing to the downgrade.

Okay, now that I have spelled that out, someone above raised another important point going forward: if not Low god regen, what regen should Aizen have?

Again this is fairly straightforward and an answer was already given. Mid was proposed which is defined as:

"he ability to regenerate from decapitation or severe brain damage. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating from the destruction of critical parts, such as the engine."

This fits his bifurcation.

That's really all there is to it. Aizen does not meet the defintionas agrred upon by everyone therefore he gets the downgrade. There is no need to argue further about consensus because a concensus on the facts has already been reached.

NOTE: as far as his form being different we already explained that was Aizen devoling having met his limit. This was already seen when Ichigo devolved from his hollow/VL/whatever form AND regen at the same time. I add this in because on the profile there should be a note that Mid Regenerationn only applied once for VS battles, at which point Aizen weakens.
 
>mathew bleach expert, topkek

As for aizen, he just has good regen, nothing about coming back from being erased from existence. His best regen is probably coming back after being completely gooped by yhwach.
 
Why do people keep bringing up existence erasure? Regenerating back from existence erasure is beyond Low-Godly. Trying to say that Aizen didn't come back from existence erasure, thus doesn't have Low-Godly is a moot point since it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Many of us have had to reiterate this several times because apparently people are confused on what Low-Godly, Mid-Godly and High-Godly are.

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, or something else.

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after being completely erased from existence, including mind, body, and soul.

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after the totality of your existence is erased, alongside the reality that you are present within that exists up to your own dimensional level.

Regenerating from existence erasure is Mid-Godly, which we keep saying Aizen did not do since Quincy don't erase existence and Aizen's Regenerationn was explained from regenerating from his soul.

Again, people need to stop jumping into the discussion without having read the previous discussion. It's only derailing the actual discussion when you bring up old points that were already countered.
 
Physical existence Erasure only requires Low Godly actually

Not all forms of Erasure cover mind body and soul
 
> The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body

When has Aizen actually regenerated from complete physical destruction of his body though? We should be putting his Regenerationn in as his best feat, with a possibly add-on for for what it might be up to. In this case, I'd say it'd be At least High-Mid, possibly Low-Godly.
 
Damage3245 said:
I find the supposed true nature of Aizen's Regenerationn to be a bit contradictory; he regenerates the spiritual energy produced by his soul, but the Mugetsu destroyed his soul via Quincy-destroying powers... so how did he have a soul to regenerate a body from?
I know IMade made an answer in his long explanation post, but from the looks of it all it is saying is that it doesn't count as soul-destruction when in Soul Society, just body destruction...

Also, I think the assumption that because Zangetsu fused with fake-Zangetsu that the Mugetsu must have Quincy properties to it is just an assumption without it actually being stated anywhere in the manga. At no point does any chapter or databook clarify that that Ichigo's Mugetsu has soul-destroying properties.

I also have still not seen any proof that Mugetsu completely destroy Aizens' body as opposed to just mostly destroying it.

Just because Aizen's body is no longer visible after he Mugetsu cuts him in half, doesn't mean he was completely destroyed down to the last spiritual particle.
Click to expand...
Damage does make good points here i'll say.
 
IMade, I've read that comment. It makes some good points for why Aizen should have a 'Possibly Low-Godly' on his profile, but you seem to be assuming that destroying the Konpaku means that Aizen's entire body was destroyed down to the last particle which I don't see any evidence for. At best Aizen appears to be crumbling to pieces in that shot of Mugetsu but that is not enough to say he was completely physically destroyed to nothing.
 
I'm not assuming off the Konpaku destruction, I know from what we are told of Quincy properties. Quincy abilities completely destroy the Konpaku as it entirely removes it from cycle of reincarnation.

No assumption has to be made when we are given several direct statements of what it does.

With Mugetsu being composed of Quincy Powers, with Quincy Powers being able to completely destroy the Konpaku (the body of the soul), with the text of Mugetsu turning things to nothing, with Aizen having crumbled away in the same effect as Quincy crumbling Konpaku away, with Aizen having regenerated before he even hit the ground (his body was crumbled and when on the ground his body wasn't crumbled) and with the reveal of Aizen's Regenerationn stemming from his soul in the final arc we can quantify Aizen's Regenerationn as being from his Soul which is Low-Godly as all the evidence we can garner and through statements given to us it explains that sole scan of Aizen laying on the floor as two halves.
 
Damage3245 said:
IMade, I've read that comment. It makes some good points for why Aizen should have a 'Possibly Low-Godly' on his profile, but you seem to be assuming that destroying the Konpaku means that Aizen's entire body was destroyed down to the last particle which I don't see any evidence for. At best Aizen appears to be crumbling to pieces in that shot of Mugetsu but that is not enough to say he was completely physically destroyed to nothing.
Click to expand...
You're still stuck on Mugetsu as if it's the only piece of evidence,i'm not sure what you mean by "last particle" considering you youself have no evidence,on the other hand when Mugetsu was casted it's implied to "return to nothing" and from what I see everything in it's path was "reduced to nothing".

Next we have Mayuri explaining to us how Aizen is still alive, i'd advise you stop ignoring that specific scan which explains it to us how his Regenerationn and immortality works.
 
So there are never any corpses left behind of people that are killed by Quincy? Somehow that doesn't seem right.

And can I have a couple scans of Konpaku crumbling from Quincy attacks to compare to Aizen's crumbling?
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
i'm not sure what you mean by "last particle" considering you youself have no evidence
Click to expand...
For the record, this isnt how this works here Sigurd.

Damage doesnt have to prove Aizen wasnt destroyed down to the last particle, your side has to prove he was (which is how this thread started in the first place). Simply put, negatives dont need to be proven, but positives do.
 
Dr.Fix said:
This thread is still open so I'm going to make another post to simplify an overtly complicated matter.
The question on the table: Should Aizen have Low Godly Regenerationn? Yes, or no.

The definition for which is:

"The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, or something else."

Note this is above all other forms of Regenerationn including low high, high, and mid high which require regen from a cell, vapor, or atoms.

The definition of existance erasure:

"is the power to remove something from existence, reducing it to nothingness. This is a step beyond vaporization or atomization, as this ability makes something vanish completely as opposed to just splitting it into smaller parts."

The limitations to this ability:

"

  • There are abilities, such as for example Low-Godly Regenerationn and above, which can protect from this up to a certain degree of the ability."
Low Godly regneration exists as an alternative to just "high" for when something is reduced to nothing as oposed to its smallest parts. AKA Existance erasure.

Both @Imade and Sig have said what happens to Aizen is NOT existance erasure. They've even cited this many times over. Therefore by the definition of Low Godly regeration what Aizen does (In the opinion of Imade and Sig) is NOT Low Godly regenration.

Its worth noting that many others including but not limited to Damage, Warren, and myself have also pointed this out. Matthew who is the only staff member and bleach expert commenting on this thread that I can see has also pointed out that based on the canon, the burden of proof for Low God regen has not been meat. Citing ther'es not enough evidence to prove Aizen was reduced to nothing as opppsed to particles, vapor, etc,

The reason I bring up Imade and Sig as well is because they are the only ones still arguing for Low God Regenerationn, in spite of the fact their arguments support the downgrade. Therefore anyone who has cited rejection of the downgrade for no other reason besides "I agree with Imade/Snake" is actually agreeing to the downgrade.

Okay, now that I have spelled that out, someone above raised another important point going forward: if not Low god regen, what regen should Aizen have?

Again this is fairly straightforward and an answer was already given. Mid was proposed which is defined as:

"he ability to regenerate from decapitation or severe brain damage. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating from the destruction of critical parts, such as the engine."

This fits his bifurcation.

That's really all there is to it. Aizen does not meet the defintionas agrred upon by everyone therefore he gets the downgrade. There is no need to argue further about consensus because a concensus on the facts has already been reached.

NOTE: as far as his form being different we already explained that was Aizen devoling having met his limit. This was already seen when Ichigo devolved from his hollow/VL/whatever form AND regen at the same time. I add this in because on the profile there should be a note that Mid Regenerationn only applied once for VS battles, at which point Aizen weakens.
Click to expand...
Reposting this since it appears as a minimum Imade did not read this through Low Godly regen is EE territory and you already admitted Aizen does not get Erased.

Seriously why is this thread still open when literlally all of us agree Aizen's body was not erased, there fore it could not have been regenerated from nothing to begin with. There's no need to cpmplicate this further when the conditions for the ability have been uninimously rejected.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
If thats you being sarcastic, you should cease it.
Click to expand...
This is the 3rd time you got hurt over my answer of "okay",please stop as there is no deeper meaning to my "okay" for the 3rd time there isn't a deeper meaning to it.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
This is the 3rd time you got hurt over my answer of "okay",please stop as there is no deeper meaning to my "okay" for the 3rd time there isn't a deeper meaning to it.
Click to expand...
You know being sarcastic is a thing right? Which is what I sensed from you which is why I said that.

If you didnt mean it that way, then I apologize.
 
Dr.Fix said:
Reposting this since it appears as a minimum Imade did not read this through Low Godly regen is EE territory and you already admitted Aizen does not get Erased.

Seriously why is this thread still open when literlally all of us agree Aizen's body was not erased, there fore it could not have been regenerated from nothing to begin with. There's no need to cpmplicate this further when the conditions for the ability have been uninimously rejected.
Click to expand...
That's incorrect. Regenerationn from EE would be Mid-Godly. Regenerationn from physical erasure is Low-Godly. This is misguiding, please actually read the Regenerationn tiers:

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after being completely erased from existence, including mind, body, and soul.

Either way, it's still at an impasse. Only you, Dr.Fix, are in favor of no Low-Godly. It appears split between Possibly Low-Godly and definite Low-Godly; however, I noticed some have switched over to definite from possibly now.
 
Damage3245 said:
So there are never any corpses left behind of people that are killed by Quincy? Somehow that doesn't seem right.
And can I have a couple scans of Konpaku crumbling from Quincy attacks to compare to Aizen's crumbling?
Click to expand...
I don't think this bit has been answered yet ^
 
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